Assault nerfed.....why?

[{GD}Spunky]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

The GL is great for taking out light vehicles and entrenched positions at long range. I've outshot snipers from over 300m from positions outside their line-of-fire, and its quite useful for attacking vodniks/humvees that actually have decent gunners and don't drive right ontop of the flags.

I think the reason the assault kits are so marginalized is the pitiful accuracy on their assault rifles. It doesn't matter how much damage they do if the bullets don't hit anyone. I'm so glad they finally did the light machine guns right... but the first shot of the G3 should be just as accurate as the PKM when prone.

Furthermore, the deviation while crouched and zoomed should be significantly reduced. While the support soldier must remain relatively stationary while dishing out hard hitting long range fire for extended periods, the assault riflemen should be able to stop and get a few highly accurate shots off while quickly displacing. Basically, the two classes should take about the same number of shots on average to kill, but the trade-off is mobility versus ammo capacity.

The risk here is in turn marginalizing the sniper kits, but it seems most peoples' idea of "sniping" is to sit on an exposed roof or hill top and spray into a crowd 50-100m away.

my .02

[J3p]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

I do believe the Assault class needs to be re-instated as the class of choice if you want to kill, and kill only. Right now, I can play support and kill FAR more people than I can with any of the Assault weapons. I realize the new hotfix will change this, but then there is the Medic class's G36E and L85A1 (Which, by the way, is very effective), or the Special Forces class's G36C / M4.

The G3 is still worthless right now. A PKM is better.

[bisley]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

Patch has ruined it even more

[Ragtime_Willy]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

I have to agree 100% with 00SoldierofFortune00. I play with assault the vast majority of the time and have absolutely no problem racking up kills with the G3. I've also encountered many people with the PKM since that patch and killed them the majority of the time.

The fact that Doom said it takes an entire clip to kill someone with the G3 just leads me to beleive that he's useless with it. Maybe if you took some time to try and master the gun you wouldn't be complaining so much about it. Because as someone who uses pretty much nothing but the G3 I have to say that it's by far the best gun I've come across.

But as it has been said before, it mostly comes down to player skill. If the medic is more skilled than the assault, then the medic will probably kill him despite the assault's advantage.

As far as I can see 00SoldierofFortune00 is the one of the few people here with a decent k/d ratio, so this proves that not only is it possible to do very well with the assault kit but also that most of you just haven't taken the time to master it.

I think Doom is just a n00b that wants his t00b back.

[J3p]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

*snip*
I think Doom is just a n00b that wants his t00b back.

If two soldiers of exact same skill came up against each other -

Soldier A is assault with a fully loaded G3
Soldier B is support with fully loaded PKM

Both are healthy.

At close range - Soldier A would crouch or go prone while firing his G3 in almost controlled bursts. Soldier B would prone and go full auto, obliterating Soldier A and anything in the area.

At medium range - Soldier A would crouch or go prone, firing single shots at Soldier B. Soldier B would go prone and fire in bursts of three to five shots. The chances may seem equal, but the PKM's lower deviations means that the PKM would likely win.

At long range - Soldier A would again go prone or crouch, firing single shots. Soldier B would go prone, and fire single shots as well. The PKM's lower deviation yet again makes all the difference. Soldier A has 20 chances to hit, Soldier B has 100 chances.

[Ragtime_Willy]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

To J3p:

Again it really depends on player skill and luck, if the player with the G3 is more skilled than the player with the PKM then the G3 will win. And vice versa.

Personally I don't like the support class and never have, so it just comes down to preference for me. But still don't believe that the PKM has that big an advantage over the G3, or at least I haven't encountered someone who was able to repeatedly kill me with PKM in heads up fights.

[Jlspence]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

You should be able to as an assault player effectively deal with a whole squad close together with the grenade launcher as you can with a grenade. There should be no difference. Yet a medic can with their grenade, a spec ops can with their grenade and they still have the opportunity to get bonus points.

Why? An assault player can also use their grenades...get rid of the t00b and use the G3 and hand grenades. Assault can get teampoints by capping flags, defending flags, kill assists, etc., just like everyone else.

On the non-combat supporting role team points. Sniper's don't get them and AT doesn't get them so Assault isn't alone in this regard. Spec Ops only gets points for blowing up CO assets. Big deal. Engineer's repair points and Support's resupply points are limited so none of them are going to the top of the leaderboard with bonus points.

That leaves the Medics and that's why this discussion evolved to one of overpowered Medics. It's not a question of balance because the kits were not balanced before the patch in terms of roles, teamplay or points opportunities. Point/bling infantry whores went either Assault or Medic because that's what allowed them to dominate point-wise. Now the Assault people who depended on the t00b for their glory are now in a pickle.

[big_sammy_b]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

After taking a few months hiatus from BF2 (for WoW) I decided to install the new patch and check it out.

I must say, I was a bit confused about the direction the devs took that game with this patch.

I thought the game was supposed to be built around "squad player roles".

Ie: each person in a squad has a specific strengths, and therefore contributes a specific "function" to the squad.

What the roles SHOULD be in my opinion:

-----------------

Assault - Role: Main infantry-infantry attack

Assault should be the MOST effective at killing opposing infantry..plain and simple. Attack weapon and/or body armour should put assault at SIGNIFICANT advantage over all other classes for mobile ground assault.

If you want to run and gun assault should be your PRIMARY choice.

Special Ops - Role: Secondary assault / infiltration / demolition

Special Ops should have good killing ability vs. infantry but less survivability and firepower then assault. The should have increased mobility, stealth and the ability to set demolitions traps to make up for the 1 on 1 killing disadvantage.

Medic - Role: Support / Healing

Medic should have very reduced assault abilities, and should not, under normal circumstances be able to kill an opposing assault class in a close or medium range 1 on 1 battle. This is balanced by there ability to self-heal, heal teamates and revive the wounded. Medics should NOT be the jack of all trades class that give overall utility.

Support - Role: Immobile ground firepower / ammunition

Support should have the BEST medium / long range firepower in the prone position. They should excel at killing enemies at distance while assault classes capture strategic positions. The also are responsible for ammunition.

Engineer - Role: Vehicle repair / anti-vehicle mining

Excel at vehicle repair, therefore suited for driving vehicles. Given the powerfull nature of vehicles engineer should have the significantly nerfed infantry-infantry combat effectiveness.

Sniper - Long range anti-infantry

Excel at long range anti-infantry killing (best in game). Highly mobile, self sufficient

Anti-tank - Anti-vehicle

Excel at dispatching vehicles (all situations). High survivability, Anti-infantry combat should be significantly limited.

--------------------------------

Okay, so those are what I think the class roles should be, but if you actually LOOK at the game right now they are TOTALLY out of wack.

1. Assault: Previously the grenade launcher gave the assault class the best anti-infantry weapon in the game allowing them to fufill their class role to a reasonable degree.

The nerf of the GL, has made the assault class TOTALLY USELESS. They are NOT the infantry killing machines they should be and the survivability given by increased body armor is not enough to offset the utility medics and spec ops players are given.

Assault do not fullfill their class role:

Improvements required:
Most lethal rifle weapons at short and medium range (with 30 rounds at least), more body armor. Basically assault should have a significantly better weapon then Spec Ops.

2. Spec Ops: Right now this class has the best weapons in the game overall, and also has C4 to fullfill their class role.

Spec Ops fullfill their class role

Improvements required:
None (if assault is boosted)

3. Medic: Main rifle too powerfull for class role, given healing ability and role

Medics are overpowered (which is why everyone plays them)

Nerfs required: Decrease primary weapon usefullness OR decrease body armor
Improvements Required: Increase mobility

4. Support: New patch make non-prone accuracy too high, yet prone accuracy should still be better

Nefs required: Decrease non-prone accuracy to almost useless (ie: running and gunning only at UBER close range)
Improvements: Increase prone accuracy (ie: a 1 on 1 prone battle should ALWAYS be won by support vs. other classes except at extreme long range with single shot from rifle)

5. Sniper: I haven't played sniper yet so I have no comment, they should have the stealth capability of spec ops however.


6. Anti-tank: Anti-tank should be the BEST anti-vehicles class and the worst anti-infantry class. Right now spec-ops has a 1 shot anti-vehicles kill (C4), making them more usefull in some circumstances then AT?!

Nerfs: Anti-infantry weapons should be slightly nerfed (DA0-12)
Improvements: SIGNIFICANT increase in anti-armor effectiveness of this class

Tank Rear - 1-2 shots (depending on exact hit location)
APC rear - 1 shot
All other vehicles: 1 shot any place


7. Engineer: Engineer is quite balanced. However, I think that they should SLOWLY repair ground vehicles (not air vehicles) while inside them, especially to make up for the inproved anti-tank abilities I proposed.

Improvments: Allow slow repairing of ground vehicles while being driven


-------------------

Right now Dice has made too many classes "equal" and has not created enough of a specialization in the classes. This is what 80% of people play the "jack of all trades classes" = medic and spec ops.

Assault SHOULD be the most desirable class to play for general killing....NOT support classes.

Right now NO ONE plays assault, and that is really a shame. When everyone has medic bags and C4 it makes the game less interesting in my opinion.

I can understand why the Devs wanted to nerf the GL, since it changes the 1 on 1 dynamic of the game...HOWEVER, even pre 1.2 MOST PEOPLE played spec ops / medic and FEW played assault!!!

So, nerfing the ONLY effective killing weapons assault had is going to make people play assault MORE?!...nope. Assault is useless now, either take it out of the game or make it usefull again.

/end of rant

I have to say i totally agree with all of that. The thing with assault is though its not like they've mathmatically made them worse they've made the GL completely random close up, as in fire it at ur feet u die and so does anyone next to you, but you fire at relatively close range to a vehicle and it bounces off randomly and somtimes even at far range the nades don't go off at all!

Its worse than nerfed if it was predicably toned down you could adapt but the way it is you never know what the GL is going to do

[eDmunDo]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

They should just remove the GL altogether and make everyone use the G3 as it rocks!

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

If two soldiers of exact same skill came up against each other -

Soldier A is assault with a fully loaded G3
Soldier B is support with fully loaded PKM

Both are healthy.

At close range - Soldier A would crouch or go prone while firing his G3 in almost controlled bursts. Soldier B would prone and go full auto, obliterating Soldier A and anything in the area.

At medium range - Soldier A would crouch or go prone, firing single shots at Soldier B. Soldier B would go prone and fire in bursts of three to five shots. The chances may seem equal, but the PKM's lower deviations means that the PKM would likely win.

At long range - Soldier A would again go prone or crouch, firing single shots. Soldier B would go prone, and fire single shots as well. The PKM's lower deviation yet again makes all the difference. Soldier A has 20 chances to hit, Soldier B has 100 chances.

The problem with your arguement is that you are saying that Player A needs to go prone in order to kill the support gunner. These is no need to go prone when he can just shoot him while he goes down or run around his body and shoot him while he goes prone. I have been playing spec ops for a while in order to better my k/d ratio with it and I go against a lot of support players now. Almost everyone of them will go prone against me and others and since the patch, they are really screwing themselves up since I can fire while crouched and they can't while proning. I am at the more disadvantage too since I am spec ops which is one of the weakest classes out there.

And the reason that guy got that high ammount of points before was because he was medicing and probably not killing many people which an assualt would be doing in order to get his points. And even if he was killing, he is on Shaqi, which like Karkand is one of the easiest places to get points on. Trust me, it is real easy to get assualt points on since everyone is so close and just bunching up and ready to be killed.
And everyone shouldn't discount the standard ARs just for the G3 either since the other ones are just as good as the G3.

And the arming time is so small on the GL if it even has one that it really won't matter to the noob tubers at all. It is in no way nerfed, it is just much harder for them to use it, but not for the people that actually know how to use it.

Most medics just get points for medicing which is fine and why the medics are in the game and the ones that are decent can get some good k/d ratios also. The ones that do though are mostly on karkand but the ones that are not are the really skilled players. Just because you get a good k/d ratio and a lot of medic points on the two easiest levels doesn't make the kit imbalanced for overpowered.

And what are you medics going to do when someone is in a vodnik 20 feet away from you and you have to expose yourself 4-5 times in order to throw a grenade which might not even make it to the target half the time?

[Paas]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

Almost everyone of them will go prone against me and others and since the patch, they are really screwing themselves up since I can fire while crouched and they can't while proning.

Que'!? Ha'! You can still fire while juming and going prone, all you need to do is have your sights up.

I am at the more disadvantage too since I am spec ops which is one of the weakest classes out there.

You mean the only class that can produce accurate fire while standing? You wouldn't be talking about the only class that can destroy assets? ...wait, or would you be talking about the class that has almost "NO" deviation per shot on their weapons making them outrageously accurate/stable; not to mention that have Grenades. They also have the only other "Direct" assault means against a Tank (It's costly, but it can be used directly) ...that weak class?

Damn... if Spec-Ops is weak, what's Medic? Pathetic?

{WP}Paas

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

And no, you cannot jump and fire at the same time. Have you even been playing since the patch came out? I have tried it multiple times using different methods and they just won't let you do it. If you are talking about prone while shooting then you are still screwing yourself since you can fire continuelly while their fire will be broken up while dropping. Why should an assualt go prone when he can just shoot the support with good accuracy while standing?

Also, there is no timing on the grenade launcher. I just shot it at my feet and it may have bounched slightly or either stopped, but 2 sec later it blew up 1 foot away from me. It didn't kill me because of the reduced splash damage, but it still blows up at your feet. But most people will die anyway if they try that while being shot.


Man, you have no idead what you are talking about. Spec Ops has no armor and its weapon is below all the assualt rifles in terms of damage, ROF, and are easy targets for Support unless you know what you are doing. That is why msot SpecOps aren't on top of the charts at the end of games because they have a hard time surviving much. They do their job well, but not much else unless you know what you are doing.

O, and any class can produce accurate fire including the pistols of all if you are a good shot. The people who aren't good shots will like the Spec Ops class because of ease of shooting, but they are less likely to survive since it has poor weapon damage and no armor. I was just tearing some Spec Ops up on Wake with the Chinese SMG and even though that doesn't mean everyone that is spec ops will lose, it jsut means that my armor gave me an advantage head on against them. A few shots can make teh difference. That is why I consider them a pretty weak class unless you are a good shot compared to the others.

All the classes are good IMO, but for someone just starting out, they will be at a disagvantage against assualt and especially support with the spec ops gun. Medic is good for beginers because they can medic themselves and it is in no way like that of spec ops class even though it is not above any other class either.

O, and spec ops job is to sabatoage. Get in, get out. They only get an accurate gun mostly for personal defense and to put up a short struggle, but not a big one against heavily armored foes.

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

it was nerfed cause there was too many noobs jumping and shooting the gl

[Beerman]

Re: Assault nerfed.....why?

Go back to WoW, if what you said is done evryone will play Assault and spec ops dumbass