Are they still weakening the helos?

[Alcorr]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

EXACTLY HOW I FEEL: Heres a post I made about a similar topic on another forum: Some of the post was about other 1.2 changes:

Ok, some SERIOUS problems with the changes...

Helis:

Look I may be a big heli , but at the same time I know game balance (or in this case IMbalance) when I see it, and this is bad.

I saw a video about the nerfed choppers: Because of lowered HP:

1 hit kill from a tank (realistic in real life but in real life, tanks don't turn the turret that fast, not to mention bad for game balance).

Vodnik now kills in about 5 seconds compared to 10...might be excellent news for some of you, but with all the 50 cal turrets out there....it would be a miracle for even an expert pilot like me to last very long....

4 or 5 missile hits from chopper kills another chopper....bad bad bad....now the pilot needs his gunner even less as theres no need to use TV missile to take down other choppers....not like it was totally necceasry before but at least it was easy...

TV missiles shorter range.....wtf....there is NO reason for this whatsoever...

8 missiles instead of 14...this does nothing except make it all the harder for choppers to take out tanks and makes us reload more instead of actually have fun and kill stuff....

The biggest problem with airpower has always been A:

Lack of decent missile lock code

And more importantly B: Lack of MUCH skill involved in shooting down airplanes

The jets have always been the invincible gods of the air, to fix overpowering choppers all they had to do was fix missile code...

Until dice implements something that involves skill in shooting down JETS...the problem won't be solved...

Like I said...choppers just needed fixed AA missile code to be kept in check....

Dice listens to too many whiners...thats why we are about to get this total crap patch....

EDIT: And yes, for those who have some idea of how the AA works, its not that hard to shoot down a Heli with a stinger/IGLA

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Not bad [GU] Lizard. I'd attribute a good portion of my deaths in the helo to two things: shot down while still spinning up the blades, shot out via sniper or TKing teammate. Were it not for those, would be a hella lot better.

As for the gunner issue, its a mixed bag. No gunner is 5x better than a BAD gunner. Tis just the simple fact. I fly hard, and push it to its breaking point, thus, I can't afford to have some nitwit spooling up the gun on a helo as Im lining up for a salvo on him, etc. etc.
However, I have a few gunners that have my stamp of approval, with which we can regularly score 200+ points a round between the two of us. Voice com. for lineups/callouts being key there. Find a good one and stick with em, its worth it in the end :)

Back to the topic at hand though. If the patch does all it says its going to do to us, to the extent we've heard, the helo. will be forced into a 100% defensive role, which is rather unfortunate. Sure, it'll eliminate a good portion of people trying to use it, but at the same time, I believe it'll get rather tedious spending the whole round simply trying to avoid that fatal, near unbreakable lock. Not that it can't be done, but it'll sure cut down our offensive usefullness and kill the adreneline rush of groundpounding. We'll see.

Indeed because thats my thing to. My helicopter deaths are from either getting into the gunner position with a clan mate and dieing or, taking off(c4'ed, flown into ect..) or a plane flying into me. I don't usually die by another helicopter unless he can get me from the side or his gunner fires accross the map.. I'v been killed in the hind however by the apache once or twice just because the hind is so big and hard to stay with the apache.. Other then that I don't usually end up dieing in a helo.

Back to the topic, yeah when I get into the game and get in a helo I am constantly looking for that 'Enemy 'APC' spotted" or 'Armor', as soon as I see it I go right into taking them out. Its hard to find a good gunner, I'v had gunners who will be able to TV Missiles and turn it and hit something I didn't even see while im going after a tank or something infront of me. Just having a good gunner looking out for you is nice, but its hard ot get someone who wants to play gunner anymore. Most of the time the gunner is in the seat to spam "Bail out Bail out" and don't get me wrong I give people a chance to fly but most of the time they are back at the helo spawn waiting within five minutes of having it. I know that when I go out and rack up 30 kills or so within a few minutes without dieing that I am alot better then those people who constantly camp the helicopter and can't fly.

Its either you get a gunner in the helicopter with you that is spamming the raido command, or telling you, you can't fly... Taking bases with the helicopter was never made for this game its near impossible to do, so you should just stay up in the air and kill the tanks. Now with the new AA Missiles and the fact that a FAV will now be able to shoot us down ALOT easier its going to suck on ice. That being said I hope EA reads this post and fixes it.. They should fix the AA missiles to make them better lock on, but don't weaken the helicopters please!

If anything here nears to be weakened its the planes they have to much power, weaken their armor all day long they still move at an insane speed and can't dodge missiles like crazy. Either way this will make playing helicopter less fun. Planes get this nice targeting system, helicopters TV missiles however could be made not shorter range but slower. Like in the cobra movie above!

[kosmiq]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

I think they should nerf the choppers. I have only managed to take down a chopper a few times with the AA.

Problem is that most servers I play on the chopper pilots are real good. Mostly I lock on the chopper, wait until flares are dropped, by then I have either got killed by the chopper OR both missiles completely misses. Happens a lot for me. The pilot in the chopper only has to "strafe" left or right in high speed and they won't be hit. I have however managed to take them down sometimes if they have been damaged or flewn over me, failed to kill me and then I have managed to stay locked on to them and hit with both missiles.

Honestly I rarely see any AA taking down a chopper. Not to mention never taking down a plane. One of the reasons I never play on maps with planes as they really do unbalance the game.

However, I agree that some teamwork with AA and a few FAV's will take down a chopper pretty fast.

I am sure the choppernerf will be sworn over by many of you chopper guys but ever tried being on the ground and getting completely raped by a Cobra/Mi-28/whatever totally owning all infantry that ever existed before they even get to jump into a FAV, AA or anything else that is good against air? Try that and you will see a good reason to nerf them.

Summary: I think the nerf of the choppers is welcome along with other changes. A fix of the AA code will do some good too, with that accomplished maybe choppers won't have to be nerfed.

[PoweredBySoy]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

To those posting in defense of pre-1.2 helicopters, I'm sorry, but you're full of sh*t. If you don't see the glaring imbalance with the current aircraft/AA system, then you're blind and naive. Especially on maps like Oman and Wake, where it's pretty much a free-for-all turkey shoot for aircraft pilots.

Stationary AA is broken. There's no getting around that, despite your claims of people having no skill. Firing with a solid lock and no flares still almost always results in the missiles taking an erratic path - sometimes even locking on to a friendly target. This happens at a target well within range and not performing any evasive manuevering. Plain and simple, the missiles are just dumb.

Helicopter armor. Nerf it, and nerf it good. There has been countless times where I have put at least 2 tank shells into a chopper, only to have him just fly off to the nearest helicopter pad to repair and rearm. So, basically, helicopters have pretty much the same armor as a tank, 3 times the firepower, and lets not forget it's ability to FLY AROUND THE MAP AT HIGH SPEED.

8 missiles. A very decent change, although I doubt this will affect a talented pilots kill potential. It only takes a few missiles to demolish a tank, which is fine. This change will just demand better aim from the pilot.

Heaven forbid if after 1.2 pilots aren't able to fly around with impunity. Imagine actually having to think about where you're flying - having to use the terrain defensively - having to be aware of all the AA sites, and whether or not they're manned or not. I seriously think the only thing going through pilots minds right now is where the closest tank to destroy is. Like I said, it's a free for all. The main threat to pilots right now is *gasp*... other helicopters.

Don't get me wrong, I'll still be flying, but I will make it a point to perma camp. every fuc*in AA emplacement on Surge/Mass/Ghost...

Exactly. Which is the way it should be. If I pilot is smart enough to fly defensively and take out it's immediate threats, I have no problem with it owning me. The problem with pre-1.2 is that it has no threats from the ground.

[[7ID]B|REC.Ace101]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

you will know VERY soon :)

[imported_Immunity]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Helicopter armor. Nerf it, and nerf it good. There has been countless times where I have put at least 2 tank shells into a chopper, only to have him just fly off to the nearest helicopter pad to repair and rearm.

I'm sorry, but unfortunatley you are full of sh*t on that point. 1 shell is survivable. 2 shells, no way in hell. Aim a bit better next time before you make such hugely false statements. :P

[Geekybiker]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Ive put 2 tank rounds into a transport helo and have had them survive. Attack helos, no.

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

hahaha well now in the AA gun its gonna take you 4 hits.. Unfortuntly flares no longer work. I agree with Immunity, the helicopters aren't meant to be easy. Since the new patch now we have to put up with 1. our flares don't work, 2. Every Missile hits 3. a PKM blew my apache up as if it were a FAV on the ground. I never said the AA was perfect but at the same time it should require some skill, how fun is it if your guranted a killed everytime you jump in one of them. On maps like Ghost Town helicopters are going to have a hard time figuring out which Stinger is hitting them and by the time they figure out which one that is they will be dead. Not to mention if its more then one of them.

I joined a Ghost Town today with the new patch, I swear to god every last AA gun had someone in it. I killed 2 of them before I was shot out the air by a line backer, in which EVERY last missile from the line backer hit my helicopter. I guess now because all the people crying about the AA not being accurate enough we've now got a bunch of newb's who jump into a AA gun and do no aiming what so ever and get two kills or even more if its a transport helicopter. With the Apache I could dodge them a bit easier but even then I still died within a few seconds. The hind is really bad, its so slow foget even trying to get away from the AA in that thing now.

So I hope all you little noob's who whined and moaned because you couldn't fly, are happy that now all you have to do is jump in an AA gun and your guranted a kill. They was people on the server who I could tell automatically were ranked high in the helo who felt the same as me. I am ranked 5,192 in the helicopter right now. Thats alot compared to how many people are behind me. I don't suck in it, so I know its not because I can't dodge missiles..

As for the guy and the tank shell in a transport someone was obviously repairing it. I'v blown them up with 1 shot to the front of it as it was flying over with an M1A2.

[imported_Immunity]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Fuc* it. Straight up.
Ghost Town is a real ****ing treat, let me tell you. Sure, its still flyable, but you'll be spending 80% of your time in one of two places.

If you're SAS, you'll spend 80% of your time with your Apache parked between the Oil Derreks and the pad, going back and forth trying to repair. The problem with this is, any damage you repair at that pad, you'll again take while trying to get to the oil derreks to avoid the linebacker spamming you from across the map. Then again, this doesn't really matter, as you can be on the level between 2 flames up top, the missle will go through the flame and hit ya anyway.

If you're Spetznaz, you're treated to an 80% of the time hover behind the hotel, inching up to the pad and ducking back behind the hotel.

What has happened here ladies and gentleman, is a reversal of roles. Antiaircraft (both Stationary and Mobile), are now the new point whores! But fear not, unlike us oldschoolers, you don't have to worry about learning a damned thing. That's right! Just sit and click Bob. Its as easy as one two three! 1. Enter AA. 2. Click Left Mouse 3. Click Left Mouse = 4 points for you :)

****ing sickening.

Edit: I have found a way to avoid 6 out of 8 missles launched from the carrier on Iron Gator. This tactic only works if they are coming at you from the front, and you must already be airborne and at moderate altitude for it to work. However, no way in hell am I gonna let it be known so soon. Anybody I've gunned with or talked to ingame however, PM me and Ill let you in on the trick :)

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Well, I have to agree 100% with Immunity on this one. The same thing exist with rockets and noob tubes however. It seems like more people are either Anti Tank or Noob Tube. I play special forces or medic.

Now instead of having 20+ people running around firing rockets up at the helicopters they'll be in the AA guns the whole entire map. Every gun on on ghost town I manage to even look at had someone in it. The amount of **** talking from shooting me down was also the very first thing I noticed. RONIN in a line backer some higher ranked guy, had shot me down atleast 8 times in a row in a line backer. As I said not one missile missed me.

As far as I can tell pressing the flare key is a waste of time you still get hit even when the flares are within a few feet of you. I know that the flares don't don't drop that fast in real life, and I also know the Anti Air Craft dominating is a load of bs. The Anti AirCraft has Unlimited rounds in it, it fires and reloads real fast. Now every shot hits. The planes on Wake Island again still basically own. I was able to kill people in those little AA guns coming from the sky and didn't get hit once. So how is this fair EA? I really hope you ass holes are reading my post, because until some mods come out BF2 is over for me. I hope they don't put PoE on no ranked server, that'll ruin it.

Also to answer someone's post above yes I have been raped by choppers. Its not all that bad really because even then I can take them down. I'v killed my share of choppers with the IGLA on the old 1.12 Patch. It wasn't a hard thing to do. It did take some skill atleast. I mean they weren't guranted a lock every time but this now is completly cheap.

Good Game, we lose to noob's who now get a neat little aim bot made by EA that is extremely accurate.