Are they still weakening the helos?

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

I don't know if they are or not since the patch was delayed somewhat. I never did understand exactly why the helicopters are going to be weakened and the stingers made stronger. Its bad enough when I could be sitting on a repair pad and getting hit by a .50 cal gun from an FAV and watching my health drop even while being repaired 2 bars at a time... Anyone know exactly whats up, I still couldn't see why they are weakening the helicopters its going to be murder for people who play ghost down as much AA as there is on that map not to mention the fact that two mobile Anti Aircraft guns spawn accross the street. I agree the anti air craft does need to be made stronger against planes and maybe have its lock on distance decreased so that one AA gun isn't covering the whole entire map like on dragon valley.. If they were going to do anything they could make it so that the gun on the line backer actually does the same ammount of damage is a FAV... because it does alot less dmg to a helicopter/plane then a .50 gun does....

I know with this post alot of people who cannot fly or hate choppers will disagree fine, post your opinion but be nice about it.. Just what do you think about it? Weaken the helicopters beyond them being even playable, or just make the AA stronger so that it hits more often rather then missing? Does anyone know if they've changed this? I don't care for them lowering the missiles either but they should make it so that all together the apache has 32 missiles as it does in real life, even if you can only fire them 8 at a time.

[Daz]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Yeah its dumb.

People bitch that IGLA's dont work, well they do its just you are using them wrong. Obviously if you shoot it head on, to a chopper and its moving it only picks up the heat as it gets close so by that time its too late. I can get kills with them maybe one load I miss completely.

What needs to be fixed is a dead lock and having it not moving all that fast and still missing it.

Or make the rockets deadly but significantly slower. Or just only hit things in viewing distance.

But I agree with the AA armor though, APCS too should do way more damage much more than a .50 cal bullet. Also considering they have splash damage.

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Yeah I'd also say make the tv missiles slower more realistic and balenced as well.. check out this cobra gunship video... This is a perfect example of team work. Instead of making them weak make them ahve to hold still while the gunner guides the tv missile to its target... Maybe even add a booster so you can slow them down or speed them up a bit...

Instead of making the helicopters weaker just increase the lock on of the AA... Maybe make it stay with the helicopters and planes make it harder to break off of. I'v been hit by AA though in the helicopter and its hard to tell sometimes where its coming from. With the planes you get a nice little circle or square showing you exactly which one it is... Not to mention how easy it is to lose them... To me though it just seems like on some of the maps theres an AA gun all over the place and the distance at which they can still be locking onto you is amazing... It only seems like if I go over near one then start going away the lock on stays with me until I lose it then quicks picking me up until I get near it. I am a damn good chopperp pilot I think im ranked 4000 or something in the chopper.. I love to fly, but I don't think they should weaken the helicopters its bad enough a FAV can kill a helicopter almost instantly. Not to mention how some of the maps just have so many AA guns... improving them is going to be tough enough but now we also have to lose our defense against everything else to? In the helicopter I am probally the first thing targeted... People i'v killed constantly are always in an AA gun some where trying to kill me... A helicopter needs that defense. Its a game I understand and the helos can't be gods like they are in real life, and neither can planes for that matter but the fact that the only thing that can stop a plane now is another plane is kind of lame... Especially on some of the maps some genius made it so the opposite side can lose their air field, so that the other team has both planes which pretty much dominate the map then. Anyway helicopters being weakened is going to be lame for us chopper pilots... and I mean the ones who really enjoy flying them. I love military and stuff.. so the choppers is an awesome part of the game..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2184649266159259417&q=cobra+gunship

[ledbythereaper]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

AA missiles will stay locked onto you permanently in real life, even if you release chaf or flares they'll still follow you, they're not fooking stupid and considering they fly at atleast Mach 3.... AA missiles need to be sorted, helo's aren't the toughest thing in the sky because on maps like karkand helos can just rape the whole thing.. It seems that the best thing for taking them out is another helicopter.

[sito]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

I think they should do away with the AA missiles completely and go with flak guns. That way at least it takes some talent to down aircraft. Sitting in the AA emplacements now is a complete waste of game time imo.

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Wrong, they can be thrown off by chaff what the purpose of it be if they couldn't. In real life they do rule the sky, they can be shot down and have but not as easy as it is in game. The flares in real life fall alot slower and they can control how many to release. If it was realism you were shoot for in that post maybe you should study up on your military history.

I also agree on that it really takes no talent just to sit in an AA gun.

[ledbythereaper]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Was that aimed at me?

[PHPT]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

AA missiles will stay locked onto you permanently in real life, even if you release chaf or flares they'll still follow you, they're not fooking stupid and considering they fly at atleast Mach 3.... AA missiles need to be sorted, helo's aren't the toughest thing in the sky because on maps like karkand helos can just rape the whole thing.. It seems that the best thing for taking them out is another helicopter.

More reasons why this isn't real life. How low are those jets flying again? And helos on Karkand? Are we playing the same game here?

As for why AA guns got buffed, because any good pilot currently knows where they are and can destroy them in a heartbeat. Mi-28 in particular against an AA gun is no contest, just point the grenade-cannon in their general direction and they die. If they don't feel like just KILLING you, then it takes a split second to get out of LOS.

The main problem is JETS. It's practically impossible to hit a jet with a stinger, the missile runs out of fuel and doesn't even fly as fast as the jets do.

Pilots should be fearing stingers like tanks/APCs fear the TOW.

[imported_Immunity]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

My two cents on the matter. Keep in mind the following is coming from a heavily biased source. As to how biased, I'll leave that up to you to determine. As of tonight, ranked 68 in the Helo, yes, I have no life Also, the following is as it relates to helicopters only, as I do not fly jets, ergo have no experience to speak of in that department


Stationary AA (Stingers/IGLA): Fine as it is. Anyone who cannot down a Apache/Mi28/Mi35/Cobra/Z10 in Stationary AA at least 50% of the time is using it incorrectly, plain and simple. I feel this issue is important enough to address that I am willing to point out the mistakes I capitalize on all the time regarding these. Ergo, without further aiedu (or however its spelled).....

Steps to downing an average/good helo pilot while in a Stationary AA Emplacement:
1. Scan horizon and acquire target momentarily (no longer than 1.5 seconds, noting distance, angle, and direction of movement. Break momentary lock.
2. Continue to reaquire momentary lock until target is within visual range, being careful not to go onto full lock or letting the pilot see you moving the stinger/igla around.
3. While target is facing away from emplacement, acquire full lock. Wait for the flares to pop. As target runs away, fire both missles in quick succession.
4. If the target helo is stationary/hovering, simply wait to reaquire lock after the flares pop, and fire. Guarenteed 100% kill. Simple.

DO NOT:
1. FIRE OR LOCK ONTO the helo as it is facing or coming towards you. Do so, and you deserve the death.
2. MOVE THE TURRET OF THE AA around as the helo is facing or coming towards you. We may not have the nice box readout as jets do, but we aren't blind. Movement=death.

If anything, the current stationary AA takes absolutley no skill to utilize. I've had people sit in it and fire potshots at me the entire round. Just sit, and click click click click over and over, crossing their fingers waiting for a kill to miraculously appear, and wondering why when it doesn't.


Mobile AA: I agree that this DOES need to be improved a bit in order to be at all useful. I suggest upping the damage on the main cannon to match the damage of what an FAV (.50cal) does at the moment. As it stands, the turret on the mobile AA is a joke. Also, up the missle pod to 5 or 6, and increase missle carrying capacity, as its currently a bit low.


My Fears: From all of this talk about the uberfication of the stationary IGLA/Stinger sites, I'm pretty sure the attack helo. will be effectivley reduced to complete uselessness on most SF maps it is featured on. All one will have to do is simply hop, acquire that 3 second lock, and pop em off to watch the kills rack up. No amount of flares/manuvering will be enough to defend agains t it. Not a fun future, thats for sure. Seeing as how you can already be hit from half the map away as it stands, its definetley going to get frustrating beyond being worth it for the majority (90-95%) of the people who fly them on average.

Don't get me wrong, I'll still be flying, but I will make it a point to perma camp. every fuc*in AA emplacement on Surge/Mass/Ghost, to get my message across to every Joe who thinks he can hop in it for some easy points. Not on my watch

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Very true... I'v been killed by a line backer before with a lucky kill he got on me... I think if they were going to increase anything it should be the linebackers primary fire as it sucks compared to the .50 it being AA you'd think it would do a bit more damage compared to the .50 cal on the FAV. I don't see a point in weakening something that isn't invincible... I can see maybe the base rape and all but that can happen with tanks, APC's and even planes. A good tank will keep his eye on his surroundings.. You say oh well atleast in a tank we can C4 him. I'v seen tanks actually get away from C4 and dodge missiles... I played against this one guy who was ranked like 30 in the tank, he had like 14k kills in the tank alone.... and was just good... I tried to C4 him countless times he was always watching behind him (3rd person or the help of a well placed UAV) and could get me no matter what.

I'v fought against AA before and if you ask me some of the maps are very unbalenced take ghost down if someone gets in the AA gun they can kill a helo before it even takes off as it spawns right accross the way. What about dragon valley all the missiles on that map can pretty much lock you all the way back to that first base on the 32 version of the map, not to mention the mobile AA.. I have no problems killing it, it just seems a bit unbalenced as now they can kill me every once and awhile when I can't make it to every gun or don't see what direction the missile came from, or even being shot by 3 or 4 different AA guns at once. Needless to say on maps like that if they increase the AA and weaken the helicopter it won't even be a fair challenge for the helicopter... hes going to just all over die every time.

Edit nice stats do, I got a similar frag rate not as many kills but I don't play as often as you.. maybe once every night for about 2 hours.. Good to see theres more then one chopper pilot out there... Most of the guys I go up against have gunners.. and I usually can't stand having a whiney little gunner who either sucks or just up and crys because I didn't line him up exactly... as if I am to wait for a few seconds why he trys to kill a line backer firing missiles up at me..
http://bf2tracker.com/bf2_usercmbsta...4189&bfmodid=0 NICE...

these are mine http://bf2tracker.com/bf2_usercmbsta...8290&bfmodid=0

[2(x)ist]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

I think the Helos are fine the way that they are..allthough the stinger sites do need alot of work you can have a clear tone on the enemy and still not hit anything or even worse it just zips past them and hits your teammate. bring back the flack cannon from 1942....also i think they need to worry less about the helos and more on the tanks they are way underpowered and they fact the tank damage from going over bumps and worse from gernades...gernades wouldnt do anything to a tanks armour except scratch it and maybe burn the metal a bit nothing more though.

[imported_Immunity]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Not bad [GU] Lizard. I'd attribute a good portion of my deaths in the helo to two things: shot down while still spinning up the blades, shot out via sniper or TKing teammate. Were it not for those, would be a hella lot better.

As for the gunner issue, its a mixed bag. No gunner is 5x better than a BAD gunner. Tis just the simple fact. I fly hard, and push it to its breaking point, thus, I can't afford to have some nitwit spooling up the gun on a helo as Im lining up for a salvo on him, etc. etc.
However, I have a few gunners that have my stamp of approval, with which we can regularly score 200+ points a round between the two of us. Voice com. for lineups/callouts being key there. Find a good one and stick with em, its worth it in the end :)

Back to the topic at hand though. If the patch does all it says its going to do to us, to the extent we've heard, the helo. will be forced into a 100% defensive role, which is rather unfortunate. Sure, it'll eliminate a good portion of people trying to use it, but at the same time, I believe it'll get rather tedious spending the whole round simply trying to avoid that fatal, near unbreakable lock. Not that it can't be done, but it'll sure cut down our offensive usefullness and kill the adreneline rush of groundpounding. We'll see.

[BigBadBob]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Pilots should be fearing stingers like tanks/APCs fear the TOW.

who fears the TOWs? That's ususally the first thing I check for and destroy if enemies are in the area.

[ledbythereaper]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Stingers go faster than most of the aircraft in BF2.

Stinger Stats
Here are the stats on the Stinger missile:

* Length - 5 feet (1.5 meters)
* Diameter - 2.75 inches (7 cm)
* Weight - 22 pounds (10 kg)
* Weight with launcher - 34.5 pounds (15.2 kg)
* Explosives - 2.2 pounds, impact fuze (explodes on contact with target)
* Speed - 1,500 mph (2,400 kph, Mach 2)
* Altitude Range - Approximately 11,000 feet (3 km)
* Distance Range - Approximately 5 miles (8 km)

[Geekybiker]

Re: Are they still weakening the helos?

Tow will kill a tank/apc most of the time if you dont check them. Its just not the case for AA vs any air assets.

I think overall the attack choppers are okay. If they increase the AA missle accuracy a little bit it'll all work out. Transport helos and jets are the main problem. The transports take waaaaaaaaay too much damage to take down. They really should take 9 bars of damage from a AT rocket. IE flaming and about to blow up after 2 shots. They should also completely eliminate repairing while inside transports. Its the only vehicle that can self repair. Jets... well we all know that jets are uber.