Is this bunny hopping?

[Paas]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

Eh, I think the whole thing is silly. BF2 and the BF2 community is the only FPS community I have ever seen that freaks out that people jump to avoid being shot. What exactly are we supposed to do if we are cought out in the open? Just take it and die? We aren't allowed to avoid getting shot? I could have sworn the point of this game was to, ya know, not die and kill others...

When I was a big Quake and UT player, jumping was life (and jump dodging in UT). If you didn't do it, you died, repeatedly. I don't go out of my way to do in BF2, but I won't lie...sometimes my reflex is to jump when I am trying to avoid bullets.

Did you just site Quake and UT as a foundation for jumping?! ...you cannot sight games where in the tutorial it tells you to, " Constantly jump to avoid fire". Those games are completel unrealistic, completely! That's what they are supposed to be, they aren't supposed to be FPS tactical games, they are supposed to be fast paced futuristic bounce fest.

...they do that well.

BF2 on the other hand has a squad system, medics, support, VOIP, and some type of limited realistic physics. You're supposed to operate somewhere within' those reasonable parameters. I mean, hopping in BF2 is the same has attempting to hope in Americas Army. It's just not supposed to be done.

Oh!...and I don't know if you know this. Yet, if you sprint for cover "exclusively" instead of wasting your sprint to get to locations quckly, you would notice that you can still escape and relocate in a gunfight with this tactic. Which is the way DICE truely intended it to be. Yes, BF2 isn't the marker/end-all of realism. Then again, it isn't UT:Modern Combat... people should really stop trying to justify their actions. This is a squad based tactical shooter, just not a diehard realism sim, it should be played as such.

...I repeast, "Squad Based Tactical"... not "Unreal Tournament:Modern Comabt".

{WP}Paas

[HypnosisFX]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

lol ive been doing good the last 2 weeks, havnt bunny hopped at all and im proud of myself, getting more kills than before as well. Still using the M203 but not hopping. just getting reay i guess.

[vbl]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

Eh, I think the whole thing is silly. BF2 and the BF2 community is the only FPS community I have ever seen that freaks out that people jump to avoid being shot. What exactly are we supposed to do if we are cought out in the open?

I'm going to respond indirectly, but hopefully you'll intuit a direct answer from it.

Most BF2 players (and gamers in general) like immersion, and immersion is a really tricky thing to pull off when the world you're in looks so much like reality. Thus, we have expectations that stem from "interpreted realism" (let's call it) over players from, say, UT, who have no obvious model to compare UT to.

We expect that most things in the game will be grounded in some facet of reality, even if they're fudged to make gameplay a little less obnoxious. In fact, we can tolerate a good number of leaps in faith (like reviving) as long as they don't become so pervasive that they start to violate or negate other facets of the "interpreted reality" that we love being a part of.

Bunny hopping is a great example of a leap (pun sorta intended) gone wrong. No one had a problem with it until it became, not one way to get around threats, but the ONLY way. Almost everyone does it. We've seen other dimensions of gameplay - like being careful when advancing, choosing good terrain, and using cover - totally disregarded in favor of the "run out in the open and hop around" tactic.

And now we have a near-complete erosion of the BF2 interpreted reality's connection to actual reality - a connection that likely inspired us to buy the game in the first place. It has killed our sense of immersion - a sense that is critical for many of us to have fun.

[Tegan]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

So because the game is squad based, you shouldn't jump? Wow, that's a pretty large stretch of logic there. Fact of the matter is, if you are caught in the open, jumping makes you harder to hit, period. If you don't like it, tell DICE to take jumping out of the game, or get used to it. It's a game, don't be such a hard ass about "zomg, it's squad based, you shouldn't jump". I don't agree with all this jump shooting, diving to prone like a tard crap...but this whole "omg, you jumped to avoid my fire, you suck" crap is getting tired and old. Learn to aim better and it won't be a problem.

And I know about using sprint, thanks.

EDIT: As a side note, I actually AGREE with not being able to jump and shoot, that was a very lame tactic...but I just don't get why people freak out when someone jumps to avoid fire. Again, learn to aim better and you should still hit the jumper pretty easily. It's really a tactic to foil people with terrible aim. If you were being shot at, in the open, wouldn't you run, jump, roll, dive and dodge to get out of the way and hopefully not get shot? I would...

[Him]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

Eh, I think the whole thing is silly. BF2 and the BF2 community is the only FPS community I have ever seen that freaks out that people jump to avoid being shot. What exactly are we supposed to do if we are cought out in the open? Just take it and die? We aren't allowed to avoid getting shot? I could have sworn the point of this game was to, ya know, not die and kill others...

When I was a big Quake and UT player, jumping was life (and jump dodging in UT). If you didn't do it, you died, repeatedly. I don't go out of my way to do in BF2, but I won't lie...sometimes my reflex is to jump when I am trying to avoid bullets.

You have to remember that there were good programmers working on Quake, UT, etc. back then to make sure the hit detection was well done in these conditions (moving with the player when they are jumping) as well as not make horribly obvious mistakes and bugs upon release. :p

It's not that this bunnyhopping would be totally unacceptable if only it did not make it ridiculously hard to hit a player because of the horrible hit detection. It would simply look silly bouncing seven feet high, but no one would mind as much as they do now.

At least, this is how I see it.

[Paas]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

I'm going to respond indirectly, but hopefully you'll intuit a direct answer from it.

Most BF2 players (and gamers in general) like immersion, and immersion is a really tricky thing to pull off when the world you're in looks so much like reality. Thus, we have expectations that stem from "interpreted realism" (let's call it) over players from, say, UT, who have no obvious model to compare UT to.

We expect that most things in the game will be grounded in some facet of reality, even if they're fudged to make gameplay a little less obnoxious. In fact, we can tolerate a good number of leaps in faith as long as they don't become so pervasive that they start to violate or damage some other facet of the "interpreted reality" that we love being immersed in and have come to enjoy.

Bunny hopping is a great example of a leap (pun sorta intended) gone wrong. No one had a problem with it until it became, not one way to get around threats, but the ONLY way. Almost everyone does it. We've seen other dimensions of gameplay - like being careful when advancing, choosing good terrain, and using cover - totally disregarded in favor of the "run out in the open and hop around" tactic.

We've seen a complete erosion of BF2's interpreted reality, and it has killed our sense of immersion - a sense that is critical for many of us to have fun.

Hmmmm... I'm gunna' stand behind this. Variable has a very good point. I play this game personally for immersion. My actions are dictated by realistic military doctrine (I don't dive to prone in every combat situation, I crouch. Check corners, slpit my squad up and give tactical "Find, Fix, Flank, Finish" tactics) only because that brings me the most fun. Everytime I'm killed by "lack of tactics" while "using tactics" the immersion factor is killed; if only for 5 seconds.

Immersion is what's is all about for me...

{WP}Paas

[Tegan]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

You have to remember that there were good programmers working on Quake, UT, etc. back then to make sure the hit detection was well done in these conditions (moving with the player when they are jumping) as well as not make horribly obvious mistakes and bugs upon release. :p

It's not that this bunnyhopping would be totally unacceptable if only it did not make it ridiculously hard to hit a player because of the horrible hit detection. It would simply look silly bouncing seven feet high, but no one would mind as much as they do now.

At least, this is how I see it.

Okay, I can respect this...especially since I am a software engineer...but rather than making pariah's out of the people who jump, why not yell at DICE for their crappy hit detection code? Having written some 3D/physics code in my life, it's NOT hard to have the hit box stay attached to the players scene node. It sounds to me like DICE doesn't know how to properly integrate their physics engine (are they using Havok?).

[bunkaroo]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

Well, keeping people from firing while jumping is a step in the right direction, but IMO they should limit how often you can jump, period. Like only once every 3 seconds or so. How realistic is it that a soldier wearing tons of body armor and carrying a rifle and ammo, and who knows what else, is springing around like he's on a pogo stick?

I've only been playing BF2 for about a month, and I've learned to survive without it. I never played any of the other FPS games that encourage this tactic, so I thankfully don't have an instinct to do it.

[Tegan]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

Well, keeping people from firing while jumping is a step in the right direction, but IMO they should limit how often you can jump, period. Like only once every 3 seconds or so. How realistic is it that a soldier wearing tons of body armor and carrying a rifle and ammo, and who knows what else, is springing around like he's on a pogo stick?

I've only been playing BF2 for about a month, and I've learned to survive without it. I never played any of the other FPS games that encourage this tactic, so I thankfully don't have an instinct to do it.

Just make jumping use (more?) stamina...I thought it already did, but they could up the value. I wouldn't mind this either. I just wish people would lay off the whole jumping thing. DICE either needs to fix their hit boxes, take jumping out (not feasible), or put limits on it, like you say.

[vbl]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

Just make jumping use (more?) stamina...I thought it already did, but they could up the value. I wouldn't mind this either. I just wish people would lay off the whole jumping thing. DICE either needs to fix their hit boxes, take jumping out (not feasible), or put limits on it, like you say.

You might find this thread interesting. We get into those related issues.

[Him]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

Okay, I can respect this...especially since I am a software engineer...but rather than making pariah's out of the people who jump, why not yell at DICE for their crappy hit detection code? Having written some 3D/physics code in my life, it's NOT hard to have the hit box stay attached to the players scene node. It sounds to me like DICE doesn't know how to properly integrate their physics engine (are they using Havok?).

That's what we all mean when we say "fix the bunnyhopping". Maybe DICE misinterpreted it, or we were not clear enough in our shouts of anguish. In any case, that is probably what should be said instead of "fix the bunnyhopping".

[Paas]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

Just make jumping use (more?) stamina...I thought it already did, but they could up the value. I wouldn't mind this either. I just wish people would lay off the whole jumping thing. DICE either needs to fix their hit boxes, take jumping out (not feasible), or put limits on it, like you say.

Yet, that's what they are doing. Putting limits on it.

So, again, what's your complaint about? People complaining about jumping?

...I don't know. I have always just delt with jumping. I always figured it should go but my tactics "Usually" won a gunfight against a "Hopper/C4 Chunker/Diver". Also, the hitbox is almost completely thrown off. I can miss someone on single fire, with an M16, from less that 10m, simply because they are jumping. Whereas, if they were running for cover, or simply charging me while not jumping around like a rabbit, they would die much quicker (Oh. They still die, just after a lot of retreating to cover. They do eventually go down though :P)

Even though I'm capable of defeating them with reasonble tactics, doesn't change the fact that it completels ruins immersion. That's the primary reason I want it gone. It feels as if I'm still playing UT2004, I own UT2004, I would hate to think I bought that game twice.

Also, when you run out of Stamina you can still hop.

{WP}Paas

[imported_The_Revrend]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

EDIT: As a side note, I actually AGREE with not being able to jump and shoot, that was a very lame tactic...but I just don't get why people freak out when someone jumps to avoid fire. Again, learn to aim better and you should still hit the jumper pretty easily. It's really a tactic to foil people with terrible aim. If you were being shot at, in the open, wouldn't you run, jump, roll, dive and dodge to get out of the way and hopefully not get shot? I would...

Why even bother to aim better. You should be able to see where they are going to land, its not like changing where you aim changes where you land. Me as engineer, Oh look bouncing guy. . . 2. . 1. . . BLAM [target jump's again] 2. . . 1. . . BLAM [dead] each time they touch down, until dead, usually they get so pannicked they forget to shoot. . . will be even better when they can't shoot back while airborne.

Rev

[Tegan]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

Yet, that's what they are doing. Putting limits on it.

So, again, what's your complaint about? People complaining about jumping?

...I don't know. I have always just delt with jumping. I always figured it should go but my tactics "Usually" won a gunfight against a "Hopper/C4 Chunker/Diver".

Even though I'm capable of defeating them with reasonble tactics, doesn't change the fact that it completels ruins immersion. That's the primary reason I want it gone. It feels as if I'm still playing UT2004, I own UT2004, I would hate to think I bought that game twice.

{WP}Paas

Jumping or no jumping BF2 feels NOTHING like UT, not even remotely. I don't see how jumping is that immersion destroying, but I can respect that for you it is.

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Is this bunny hopping?

My actions are dictated by realistic military doctrine (I don't dive to prone in every combat situation, I crouch.

Actually, one of the very first things they teach you in the military is that when you come under fire, immediately go prone, locate the threat, and call it out.