USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

Great site, thanks Brindled.

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

Wrong- a MiG holds distance because its considerably slower than F35 and somewhat slower than F18. You dont lock on from the distance, if youre using the missiles its in either of these two cases.
1) You have snuck up behind him and now ram these missiles into him with the lucky lock-on.
2) The target is escaping and youre forcing him to make a sharp turn to catch up with him again. If he will continue with the shootable pattern, you THEN use the missiles. I have yet to see a pilot slow down just to geta missile lock.

An F35 holds distance to keep up with MiGs maneuvers.

A F35B flys past MiG in turns because of its higher speed. Consider this. Speed loss is for both of them in turns. They drop to around ~850~900. But the speed at which the MiG flys into that turn is also somewhere near ~900. But the speed at which the F35, when following, flys into a sharp turn after MiG is ~1000~1100 and therefore the gap between those two planes will decrease regardless of how the MiG will brake. IF, the F35B sees the MiGs brakes being deployed, he can react, but he needs distance to do that, and this is the key element in following the defender in its maneuvers.



You can do both, and its dont both. When the jet is in smoke, it really wont matter when youre using the MG because with that ROF youre bound to hit him. And when he realizes hes being followed and shot at, he will just make a sharp turn and you have a reduced distance once again.



Wrong. Many say that faster flight is smaller turn radius. Explain this- how can a F35B perform a full loop with the exact same time as the MiG while MiG is vastly slower at full afterburner speed? F35B has naturally a bigger turn circle, which is decreased only by lowering the speed and THEN applying the afterburner. Contrary to the common belief that max speed is what reduces maneuver time, its actually the effects of the afternburner that does it, and you can slow down to about 850 in turn and then afterburner yourself to increase the speed and keep up with the MiG. And you dont lead a target with the MG when the bullets are easy to dodge.



Scenario- F35B follows MiG. 10 and 13 second afterburner duration time respectively. If MiG pushes the AB, the F35B MUST do the same in order to stay in the MiGs flight corridor. No other way around it. Your "tip" applies to fighter vs bomber chase, not a fighter vs fighter chase.

MiG follows F35B. If the F35 will not do anything to keep the MiG as close as possible in its tight-turn maneuvers, it will all be just a waste of afterburner duration for the F35.



Same scenario. But since F35B has faster roll speed, he makes some quick rolls and turns in succession. Since Its faster, its roll speed is faster and its turn speed is the same as MiGs F35B will loose the MiG.

If F35 follows the MiG, if it has enough time to react, it will follow through MiGs fast rolls with relative ease. Keeping the distance is still upmost important.



You can never, never, ever close a gap in abovementioned scenario IF you will not force the F35B to make a sharp turn with the lockon.
~1450 Afterburner speed (increased vastly when flying straight up, or down) vs MiGs ~1060 is too high of a speed to make even, in level flight. As I said, lockon is the only way you can make a F35 get closer to you if it starts to gain distance.





Fundamental flaw. Its not the efficiency of the brakes that make the F35B fly past the MiG. Its the faster speed in that particular turn, in which F35B will loose the MiG out of its view at a certain moment IF its too close.

What if, from a distance the F-35B sees your air brakes being deployed, it will wait for a certain speed at which your maneuverability wont be at its best, it then will missile and gun you out of the skies. Although playing with speed is important, all your efforts, all your maneuvers are useless when the tail keeps its distance. Usually he approaches to make a swipe. Lethal or not, thats up to the pilots skills.

With distance held, he can wear yoru afterburner down, he can have more time to learn your maneuvers. And most important, he can easily follow you through your maneuvers. With distance control, F35 becomes vastly superior to MiG because in most moments, F35 doesnt have to deploy its afterburner and can missile the MiG once its afterburners are depleted.



With 2 second AB roll speed, a F35 can wiggle its booty far better than a MiG, but I agree, if you meant that it has to be unpredictable and seemingly turning anywhere within any given moment.

To sum this mess up.

F35 has to keep distance to follow MiG and not to overspeed in turns to fly past the MiG. MiG is vastly slower than F35. If F35 slows down and keep sits distance, the MiG will be shot out of the skies if it brakes down. And besides, every pilot will boost the AB as soon as that lockon warning starts ringing. Think it of a whip.


Colony



Absolutely, If throttle control is mastered, MiG really has zero advantages vs many, many disadvantages the F35 has. Unfortunately, most peope (even I) handle all the planes as if they were the same.

There is a problem with BF2 planes versus those in real life. For example:

Throttle response way too slushy.

Going faster does not equal turn tighter.

Boyd Loop method of staying inside the enemy is the way to win here.

Sometimes slower with higher wing loading and use of brakes, slats and flaps or simply advanced wings such as found on the F-16.

No real BVR capabilities.

No pure airflow modeling on the game. There are differences between all fighters starting with the wing.

Fighters in real life will both run out of energy, the pilot who conserves the most energy and strikes when the enemy is unable to recover wins.

While not a modern jet, the Japanese Zero can out climb a P-38 lightning for just enough time to come over the top and get on it's tail. If the Zero chose any other response to a P-38 on it's tail, it is dead.

Compared to other simulators such as DiD's EF2000 BF2's flight physics are rather basic probably because the market does not support a learning curve for these planes.

I take advantage of some people's reluctance to go negative forces on a jet in BF2. What this means is to flip the jet upside down and push "Down" on the stick to force the nose away from the ground. Some pilots on my 6 refuse to attempt because they are confronted with a unnatural flight path.

There are G forces in real life, it is much harder to turn a jet in a tight corner at 1000 kts KIA versus one who bleeds off the energy and whips it around at 500 KIA.

And finally Stall speeds are different and varys with flight envelope and altitude (Speed) for every aircraft. The game assumes that all except for the -35 will fall out of the sky somewhere above 200 KIA.

Harrier 2's can beat F-15's by forcing the -15 to stay chained to low alititude and virtually 0 KIA. The Eagle on the other hand can go pure vertical, come over the top and kill the Harrier if it can be "Broken out" from the ground clutter.

And ultimately...saying this jet pwns that jet or this will beat that is all out of the window the moment a fight is on in the sky.

And far better for a combat team to take the enemy airfield and assure air superority in the first instance or sappers wrecking the planes and runway. Taking away the opponet's ability to fight with aircraft is a valid tatic. Sure you might find yourself with a game that is ended in 5 minutes with 200 tickets going to the winning side and feel like you have to disconnect and find another server. Instead try to acknowledge that the opponets did things right in such a swift victory.

The first pilot to gain a lock or guns solution that kills his opponet wins. All else is bullcrapth.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

Firstly Id liek to thank for an intersting read, and I would like to see you continue, if thats not an issue.

There is a problem with BF2 planes versus those in real life. For example:

To note, everything Ive written so far is about BF2 planes only. Its a comparision and are semi-informative posts that only point out what is generally missed.

Throttle response way too slushy.

In RL or BF2? Because in BF2 this can be overcome with keeping distance with the plane youre chasing.

Going faster does not equal turn tighter.

I assume its in BF2. Absolutely, absolutely, yet many players think this is not the case.

Boyd Loop method of staying inside the enemy is the way to win here.

I dont know what that is, could you please tell a bit more about this? Im eager to learn new stuff. (no sarcasm)

No real BVR capabilities.

Beyond Visual Range? In game there actually is. Against ground targets, you have a target aquired before you see it. Its very basic, but its there. In dogfights, no BVR is simply made so its easier to play. And easier to survive.

No pure airflow modeling on the game. There are differences between all fighters starting with the wing.

Absolutely, but as said, the planes in BF2 are drastically different, which is overlooked. Even if not "realy" drastically different, it falls back to the fact that its a game.

Fighters in real life will both run out of energy, the pilot who conserves the most energy and strikes when the enemy is unable to recover wins.

Actually this is the case in BF2 aswell. Youll notice sloppier maneuvers once hes dry on afterburner and being constantly pushed. Once he hits the "worn out" status, hes gone. Ive had many a kills by wearing an enemy pilot out with F35 because I simply cant engage first (concentrating on tracking/throttle control).

While not a modern jet, the Japanese Zero can out climb a P-38 lightning for just enough time to come over the top and get on it's tail. If the Zero chose any other response to a P-38 on it's tail, it is dead.

Yup, this is an example of different maneuvers working for different planes in BF2 aswell. If F35 tries sharp full turns against MiG, its dead. If F35 tries high velocities and many successive sharp short turns in a row, it has a chance.

Compared to other simulators such as DiD's EF2000 BF2's flight physics are rather basic probably because the market does not support a learning curve for these planes.

Thank god

BTW, Im really interested in informative posts about dogfighting in BF2, theres no sarcasm. And please describe that loop you mentioned.

And ultimately...saying this jet pwns that jet or this will beat that is all out of the window the moment a fight is on in the sky.

Agreed to some part. Fundamental flaw is that everyone is flying every jet as if they were all the same. That is why it is usually accepted that J-10 comes out as a winner and whatnot.

[imported_Calibre]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

To the OP - agreed it's lame in this instance. however servers who kick because you get into the op force base and steal hardwear after everyone is in the server and the game is underway are pretty lame too..

Nothing gives more satisfaction than getting into the PLA base in daqing or Dalian, killing ones waiting for the plane to spawn and then nicking the J-10 - great fun indeed, I mean c'mon you never see the movie Firefox???

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

To the OP - agreed it's lame in this instance. however servers who kick because you get into the op force base and steal hardwear after everyone is in the server and the game is underway are pretty lame too..

Nothing gives more satisfaction than getting into the PLA base in daqing or Dalian, killing ones waiting for the plane to spawn and then nicking the J-10 - great fun indeed, I mean c'mon you never see the movie Firefox???

Did, great movie!

[imported_Calibre]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet



at least we don't have to think in Chinese when we rob a J-10

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

The Boyd Loop:

http://www.mindsim.com/MindSim/Corporate/OODA.html

This pretty much says it all.

Now for the Beef:

http://www.fastcompany.com/online/59/pilot.html

Not just Planes but Commanders and Platoon Leaders in Battle:

http://www.dodccrp.org/events/2005/10th/papers/365.pdf#search='Boyd%20Loop'

The team that uses the information presented faster and better than the opponet will win.

[Brindled]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

thanx for the reading heavy

[testingtesting12]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

"Otherwise the first to load is exploiting a performance issue."

Not a legit reason and it's not an exploit because someone has a better comp than you.

well, it is a form of cheating (but not a big deal IMO), an unfair advantage as not everyone can afford the latest fastest computers

[big_sammy_b]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

i would say that was a good tactic also and im no particular fan of pilots.

Makes perfect sense for both the fact that it deprives the enemy of a plane and adds a plane to your team but also at the same time as you say @its a better plane' so iots good from the individual standpoint and again the team aswell :)

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

well, it is a form of cheating (but not a big deal IMO), an unfair advantage as not everyone can afford the latest fastest computers

It's not an exploit or cheating. It is Hardware pure and simple.

I recall back in the early days of flight sims, those with 33K modems beat 14.4's routinely and those running raid out ran those with regular IDE's

I am running RAID 0 and one of the first loaded and moving. To me that is quite satisfacotry when I wish to get to a plane and off the runway before the panting herd of smurfs pack the place risking a Tk ban.

Gaming as a hobby is best enjoyed with hardware that is fast and beefy enough to withstand the rigors.

Granted we may not all have leet rigs but there will be a time coming eventually when we all run similar hardware and ride on Fiber Optic internet.

Also dont forget that it is the server's job to maintain a equal flow of information among ALL players in a game. That machine has to be the best it possibly can be and connected very well or there will be too much latency.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

Great reading, H552! Thanks.

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

i think planes should be more powerful.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

i think planes should be more powerful.

I think you should stop spamming. Almost all of your posts are a waste of bandwidth and the time I take to read them.

[testingtesting12]

Re: USMC lamers who fly to MEC airfield, bail out, and steal MEC jet

It's not an exploit or cheating. It is Hardware pure and simple.

Wrong, cheating is defined as having an unfair advantage, it is cheating, but I don't think it's a big deal, it's not a very large advantage (only really noticed as view distance and load times).