Everyone knows that the small arms in BF2, cool as they are to play with, are pretty inaccurate in terms of their correspondence to what they’re trying to portray.
My only concern is that what I had seen in the CS community will continue here in the BF community: young guys coming away from the game with the impression that they can speak with authority about the real-world behavior of weapons with which they have extensive in-game-only experience. I’m trying to save people some embarrassment by shedding some light on some of the most glaring differences that come to mind.
This is written based on personal experience, or anecdotes straight from the horse’s mouth – in other words, friends of mine who have direct combat experience with the things mentioned. I’ll note on each weapon, whether it’s my experience or a friend’s I’m citing. I’m writing based on the assumption that because you’re into playing the game, you’re probably also interested in learning about the real world weapons, like I am.
Finally, I’m not lecturing. No seriously. This is not about coming across like some know-it-all, which if I do, I apologize in advance for, right now.
There are people who know a hell of a lot more than me, there are those who know less than me. It would help this thread and allow all of us to learn, if those who are more knowledgeable would pipe up and provide some input.
Abbreviations: IRL = in real life, and IG = in game.
Muzzle flash: All unsuppressed small arms IG have wildly overstated muzzle flash. IRL there is nothing like this to be seen, not even at night, unless you’re using night vision equipment. During the day, esp. in sunshine, muzzle flash is invisible on weapons equipped with flash hiders unless you’re looking nearly straight-on at them. (personal exp.)
All small arms in game: overheat way too quickly, and cool down insanely quickly. But it’s a good feature, because it teaches players the concept of burst fire.
MP5 versus 92FS: IRL they shoot the same ammo: 9x19mm NATO. MP5 is more accurate, much easier to shoot, and because of the longer barrel, the round has more power. IG the MP5 should do more damage and be much more accurate than the Beretta. (lots of personal exp.)
M95: IRL this is not used nearly as much as its larger semi-auto brother, the M82A1, which uses the same ammo: .50 BMG. IG the M95 is only a one-shot killer with a headshot, while IRL it’s a one-shot killer with a much wider range of latitude about shot placement, and vastly greater effective range. Fires the same round as the M2HB mounted on vehicles, IRL does the same damage, which runs at 3 times the damage of the M24, M240, SVD, PKM. Yes, it would “own” IG if powered properly. So what? It owns in real life, to a degree that most people fail to even imagine. It’s often used to disable jets and helos while parked. With one shot to the engine. It has taken out personnel at over 2,000 meters. With one shot to the chest. So don’t go nerfing this thing to where it’s a big slow clumsy M24.
Final point about the M95: you are not going to find anyone shooting this rifle in any fashion other than prone. Period. With the M82, if it appears IG, it’ll be laughable to even imagine someone trying it. Snipers should be given real rifle damage & accuracy, but not allowed to fire until prone – that would come a little closer to reflecting life’s realities. (friend's experience)
M24, M240, G3 and Minigun: IRL they all fire the same round. Yes, the bullet configurations vary, and the accuracy of the platforms is very different, but it’s the same cartridge, and is produces essentially the same energy from all three guns. Terminal effects will vary depending on whether it’s AP or a ball or a match round, but not enough to make a big difference IG. IRL the G3 is a very accurate rifle, and is almost never fired on automatic, except at muzzle-contact distances, because the muzzle rise is so severe. (personal exp.)
Minigun special note: this does not fire explosive rounds, or rounds any more powerful than those fired by the M240, M24 or G3. It just fires the same regular old 7.62x51 cartridges, but very quickly. Usually 4,000 rounds/min cyclic rate, but that’s variable. Also, it doesn’t take so long for the electric motor to spin the barrels up IRL as IG. (personal exp.)
M16, M4, SCAR, F2000 & SAW (M249): IRL they all fire the same round, should do very similar damage. M4 should be least powerful, followed by SCAR, SAW, F2000 and full size M16 in that order, but we’re not talking about large differences in power, as the barrel length (which largely determines velocity, and velocity determines power), varies a total of 5.5” across the bunch, from M4 (14.5”) to M16 (20”). IRL the M249 is not nearly as inaccurate as depicted IG. F2000’s grenade launcher discussed elsewhere. (personal exp. w/M16, M4)
G36C, G36E, and MG36. IRL these all fire the same round, which is also the same as that fired by the M16, M4, SAW, and SCARL 5.56x45mm NATO. Of the three, G36C should be least powerful, because it has the shortest barrel, followed by G36E and MG36 being the most powerful, but the distinctions are subtle, much as with the weapons above. MG36’s accuracy IG is too poor compared to G36C. IRL it’s the MG36 that’s more accurate, but the game designers must’ve been trying to convey the concept of recoil-induced dispersion of shots. In any event, making the G36E more accurate than the MG36 when both are firing 3-shot bursts is laughably unnatural – the MG36 in that situation is vastly more accurate, particularly when the operator is prone, which is the only proper way to fire any LMG. (hearsay).
SVD & PKM: IRL these fire the same round, so should do the same damage per hit IG. They fire 7.62x54R, which is quite similar to our 7.62x51 round, but predates it by about 60 years. The concept of recoil seems lost on the game designers, who give the SVD almost none, and yet burden the PKM with gigantic recoil-induced inaccuracies. This is despite the fact that the PKM is much more heavy than the SVD, especially so with a full belt box. (personal exp. w/SVD & hearsay with PKM)
And just in case it isn’t immediately obvious: weapon weight has a huge impact on recoil. Other big factor is action type (semi autos have less recoil than comparable bolt actions), so the M24 should have more recoil IG than the SVD, yet it has less, which is does not reflect reality. Also more flash, because it has no flash hider like the SVD, but IRL neither gun has any flash in strong daylight. (personal exp.)
AK47 & RPK: The AK is not badly modeled IG, but the sound’s not right. IRL has a little more power than the M16, but is less accurate. M16’s sound IG is surprisingly good, to me at least. AK fires a bit more slowly on automatic IRL than IG. The RPK is a different story. It’s firing the same round as the AK (7.62x39), and has a longer barrel, so it’s marginally more powerful, but IG it’s less powerful, and wildly inaccurate. Think of it – both guns are extremely similar, and fire the same round. Yet while firing the RPK prone in automatic mode, the software dictates less accuracy than when firing the AK prone or standing. It’s silly, and it nerfs the RPK unnecessarily & unrealistically. (lots of personal exp.w/both)
AK101: IRL has almost exactly the same power as the full-size M16, since they both fire 5.56x45, but the game designers were probably thinking of the AK74, which fires the 5.45x39, or the AK103, which is chambered for 7.62x39 (same as the AK), and the mags on the so-called “AK101” in game sure look a lot more like AK103 mags to me than AK101 mags – the curvature is more severe on the 103’s. Either rifle, the AK101 or AK103, is a bit more accurate than AK47. (limited personal exp. w/101)
Jackhammer/Streetsweeper: a silly choice to include in the game. These are not fielded by modern militaries, and would not likely be. The concept of a fully-automatic shoulder-fired 12 gauge is silly. Those that have been made are essentially uncontrollable when fired hand-held. We’re not talking inaccurate: we’re talking start shooting at the ground in front of the target, and end up shooting the last round into the sky above it. Utterly useless: the recoil is just too extreme. (fantasy)
The Benelli M1 Super 90s that are coming in the new release are a much better choice, and the Entry model in particular would be fun, although the recoil is a bit brutal. (lots of personal exp. w/Entry model)
Grenade launchers: M203 & F2000’s FN-produced 40mm GL both fire the same selection of rounds. IRL there are lots of rounds to choose from, but IG it’s just the M406 HE (high explosive), or possibly the M433 HEDP (HE dual purpose). Either round doesn’t arm until it’s gone at least 14 meters, and will often need up to about 25 meters to arm. Also, both have a lethal radius of about 5 meters, so those noob-tubers who think that firing it at someone a meter away is real-world have got another thing coming. (friend's input from M203/M79 exp.)
Similar constraints apply to MEC/Chinese teams’ GP30 launcher, except it’s firing the VOG-25 grenade, which only needs 10 meters to arm, although it might not arm until it’s 40 meters downrange, but it has a lethal radius of 6 meters. Essentially, it’s the same thing, and totally inconsistent with the silly tactics that have developed IG of shooting these grenades at enemy 2-3 meters away and having them get pulverized while the shooter, who is standing well within the lethal radius, walks away unscathed. (hearsay)
Reloading: pet peeve of mine, but the reloading animations are kinda silly. Slides and bolts never lock back, and the animations always portray a reload from empty, not topping up a gun with a round in the chamber. (personal exp.)
OK< that’s my take on things. Those who have more knowledge, please add your thoughts and experiences. Together, we can kill the perception held by some in the CS crowd that AWP headshots while leaping over boxes can happen. Trust us, they can’t. And neither can dualie headshots with Desert Eagles at 70 meters while running sideways.
My only concern is that what I had seen in the CS community will continue here in the BF community: young guys coming away from the game with the impression that they can speak with authority about the real-world behavior of weapons with which they have extensive in-game-only experience. I’m trying to save people some embarrassment by shedding some light on some of the most glaring differences that come to mind.
This is written based on personal experience, or anecdotes straight from the horse’s mouth – in other words, friends of mine who have direct combat experience with the things mentioned. I’ll note on each weapon, whether it’s my experience or a friend’s I’m citing. I’m writing based on the assumption that because you’re into playing the game, you’re probably also interested in learning about the real world weapons, like I am.
Finally, I’m not lecturing. No seriously. This is not about coming across like some know-it-all, which if I do, I apologize in advance for, right now.
There are people who know a hell of a lot more than me, there are those who know less than me. It would help this thread and allow all of us to learn, if those who are more knowledgeable would pipe up and provide some input.
Abbreviations: IRL = in real life, and IG = in game.
Muzzle flash: All unsuppressed small arms IG have wildly overstated muzzle flash. IRL there is nothing like this to be seen, not even at night, unless you’re using night vision equipment. During the day, esp. in sunshine, muzzle flash is invisible on weapons equipped with flash hiders unless you’re looking nearly straight-on at them. (personal exp.)
All small arms in game: overheat way too quickly, and cool down insanely quickly. But it’s a good feature, because it teaches players the concept of burst fire.
MP5 versus 92FS: IRL they shoot the same ammo: 9x19mm NATO. MP5 is more accurate, much easier to shoot, and because of the longer barrel, the round has more power. IG the MP5 should do more damage and be much more accurate than the Beretta. (lots of personal exp.)
M95: IRL this is not used nearly as much as its larger semi-auto brother, the M82A1, which uses the same ammo: .50 BMG. IG the M95 is only a one-shot killer with a headshot, while IRL it’s a one-shot killer with a much wider range of latitude about shot placement, and vastly greater effective range. Fires the same round as the M2HB mounted on vehicles, IRL does the same damage, which runs at 3 times the damage of the M24, M240, SVD, PKM. Yes, it would “own” IG if powered properly. So what? It owns in real life, to a degree that most people fail to even imagine. It’s often used to disable jets and helos while parked. With one shot to the engine. It has taken out personnel at over 2,000 meters. With one shot to the chest. So don’t go nerfing this thing to where it’s a big slow clumsy M24.
Final point about the M95: you are not going to find anyone shooting this rifle in any fashion other than prone. Period. With the M82, if it appears IG, it’ll be laughable to even imagine someone trying it. Snipers should be given real rifle damage & accuracy, but not allowed to fire until prone – that would come a little closer to reflecting life’s realities. (friend's experience)
M24, M240, G3 and Minigun: IRL they all fire the same round. Yes, the bullet configurations vary, and the accuracy of the platforms is very different, but it’s the same cartridge, and is produces essentially the same energy from all three guns. Terminal effects will vary depending on whether it’s AP or a ball or a match round, but not enough to make a big difference IG. IRL the G3 is a very accurate rifle, and is almost never fired on automatic, except at muzzle-contact distances, because the muzzle rise is so severe. (personal exp.)
Minigun special note: this does not fire explosive rounds, or rounds any more powerful than those fired by the M240, M24 or G3. It just fires the same regular old 7.62x51 cartridges, but very quickly. Usually 4,000 rounds/min cyclic rate, but that’s variable. Also, it doesn’t take so long for the electric motor to spin the barrels up IRL as IG. (personal exp.)
M16, M4, SCAR, F2000 & SAW (M249): IRL they all fire the same round, should do very similar damage. M4 should be least powerful, followed by SCAR, SAW, F2000 and full size M16 in that order, but we’re not talking about large differences in power, as the barrel length (which largely determines velocity, and velocity determines power), varies a total of 5.5” across the bunch, from M4 (14.5”) to M16 (20”). IRL the M249 is not nearly as inaccurate as depicted IG. F2000’s grenade launcher discussed elsewhere. (personal exp. w/M16, M4)
G36C, G36E, and MG36. IRL these all fire the same round, which is also the same as that fired by the M16, M4, SAW, and SCARL 5.56x45mm NATO. Of the three, G36C should be least powerful, because it has the shortest barrel, followed by G36E and MG36 being the most powerful, but the distinctions are subtle, much as with the weapons above. MG36’s accuracy IG is too poor compared to G36C. IRL it’s the MG36 that’s more accurate, but the game designers must’ve been trying to convey the concept of recoil-induced dispersion of shots. In any event, making the G36E more accurate than the MG36 when both are firing 3-shot bursts is laughably unnatural – the MG36 in that situation is vastly more accurate, particularly when the operator is prone, which is the only proper way to fire any LMG. (hearsay).
SVD & PKM: IRL these fire the same round, so should do the same damage per hit IG. They fire 7.62x54R, which is quite similar to our 7.62x51 round, but predates it by about 60 years. The concept of recoil seems lost on the game designers, who give the SVD almost none, and yet burden the PKM with gigantic recoil-induced inaccuracies. This is despite the fact that the PKM is much more heavy than the SVD, especially so with a full belt box. (personal exp. w/SVD & hearsay with PKM)
And just in case it isn’t immediately obvious: weapon weight has a huge impact on recoil. Other big factor is action type (semi autos have less recoil than comparable bolt actions), so the M24 should have more recoil IG than the SVD, yet it has less, which is does not reflect reality. Also more flash, because it has no flash hider like the SVD, but IRL neither gun has any flash in strong daylight. (personal exp.)
AK47 & RPK: The AK is not badly modeled IG, but the sound’s not right. IRL has a little more power than the M16, but is less accurate. M16’s sound IG is surprisingly good, to me at least. AK fires a bit more slowly on automatic IRL than IG. The RPK is a different story. It’s firing the same round as the AK (7.62x39), and has a longer barrel, so it’s marginally more powerful, but IG it’s less powerful, and wildly inaccurate. Think of it – both guns are extremely similar, and fire the same round. Yet while firing the RPK prone in automatic mode, the software dictates less accuracy than when firing the AK prone or standing. It’s silly, and it nerfs the RPK unnecessarily & unrealistically. (lots of personal exp.w/both)
AK101: IRL has almost exactly the same power as the full-size M16, since they both fire 5.56x45, but the game designers were probably thinking of the AK74, which fires the 5.45x39, or the AK103, which is chambered for 7.62x39 (same as the AK), and the mags on the so-called “AK101” in game sure look a lot more like AK103 mags to me than AK101 mags – the curvature is more severe on the 103’s. Either rifle, the AK101 or AK103, is a bit more accurate than AK47. (limited personal exp. w/101)
Jackhammer/Streetsweeper: a silly choice to include in the game. These are not fielded by modern militaries, and would not likely be. The concept of a fully-automatic shoulder-fired 12 gauge is silly. Those that have been made are essentially uncontrollable when fired hand-held. We’re not talking inaccurate: we’re talking start shooting at the ground in front of the target, and end up shooting the last round into the sky above it. Utterly useless: the recoil is just too extreme. (fantasy)
The Benelli M1 Super 90s that are coming in the new release are a much better choice, and the Entry model in particular would be fun, although the recoil is a bit brutal. (lots of personal exp. w/Entry model)
Grenade launchers: M203 & F2000’s FN-produced 40mm GL both fire the same selection of rounds. IRL there are lots of rounds to choose from, but IG it’s just the M406 HE (high explosive), or possibly the M433 HEDP (HE dual purpose). Either round doesn’t arm until it’s gone at least 14 meters, and will often need up to about 25 meters to arm. Also, both have a lethal radius of about 5 meters, so those noob-tubers who think that firing it at someone a meter away is real-world have got another thing coming. (friend's input from M203/M79 exp.)
Similar constraints apply to MEC/Chinese teams’ GP30 launcher, except it’s firing the VOG-25 grenade, which only needs 10 meters to arm, although it might not arm until it’s 40 meters downrange, but it has a lethal radius of 6 meters. Essentially, it’s the same thing, and totally inconsistent with the silly tactics that have developed IG of shooting these grenades at enemy 2-3 meters away and having them get pulverized while the shooter, who is standing well within the lethal radius, walks away unscathed. (hearsay)
Reloading: pet peeve of mine, but the reloading animations are kinda silly. Slides and bolts never lock back, and the animations always portray a reload from empty, not topping up a gun with a round in the chamber. (personal exp.)
OK< that’s my take on things. Those who have more knowledge, please add your thoughts and experiences. Together, we can kill the perception held by some in the CS crowd that AWP headshots while leaping over boxes can happen. Trust us, they can’t. And neither can dualie headshots with Desert Eagles at 70 meters while running sideways.
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