A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

[Older-OMO]

Suckered again, myself included (5+pages of responses to a first time poster). I don't have a problem with people who are offering constructive criticism, but most are just whining hoping to get validation from all the other whiners. You can say just about anything on a forum and get pages of people that agree with you. They never are an indication nor a representation of the silent majority.

Planes are overpowering because they are supposed to be. Choppers are overpowering because they are supposed to be. Tanks and armor are overpowering because they are supposed to be. Foot soldiers are at the bottom of the food chain. Yes as someone else alluded, there is a pecking order. However, the game is inhernently fair and balanced. Name another FPS or online game where people didn't complain about overpowered weapons, kits, vehicles, etc.

The alternative is to overcome the obstacle and fight. I was getting owned by noob tubers and bunny hoppers, I learned how to deal with them. I was getting owned by tanks, I learned how to take out tanks. Choppers were ****ing me off, I learned how to take out choppers. I was getting owned by planes, I learned how to take out planes. It takes skill to own with any kit or vehicle, but everyone has the right and the ability to improve. Nobody is invincible and there is always a counter to every attack. That is balance.

A good pilot is hard, but not impossible to take down or neutralize. If you rely on AA than you will get owned. The obvious counter is another pilot. If the pilot can't shoot him down, he can keep him occupied so he isn't taking your team out. That's called sacrificing your score for the team. It is also called balance. So what if their pilot gets a high score if your team wins through better teamwork and organization. If it gets out of hand on one server, there are hundreds more you can go to.

Good players and good teams/clans are always going to own or make the game seem unfair. Is it unfair? Absolutely if you are on the losing side, but the game wasn't created to be some hippie/socialist everbody wins killing game.

Teamwork, skills and balance win everytime. Whining about planes, choppers, noob tubers and bunny hoppers shows lack of character and will. Practice, get on a well managed server, practice, join a club/clan or practice and most of these issues can be overcome. Get on a FFA server and all bets are off.

What possible reason is there to hang out on a BF2 forum to whine and complain? Nobody is going to change your mind. You aren't going to change mine. We will problably find you whining about something else on another forum. So go and leave in peace. Nobody told you to buy the game, nobody told you to play it as long or short as you have, nobody told you to play on ranked servers.

The only people who care are the other people who want to whine with you. Exercise your right to remain silent.

[old sch00l]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

Why start another new thread, whining about whiners.

Please "Exercise your right to remain silent"??!!

[Older-OMO]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

LOL, ROTFL, :p you funny man. You are probably one of the whiners...

[Shae]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

I have to agree with the OP. Want to stop the tank - kill it. Want to stop the jet jockeys from owning the game - kill them. Key word here is kill. Never give up and never relent. I use to hate certain maps because the jet jockeys would constantly be blowing me up. I decided to do something about it. I went and played single player games and learned how to fly. I use to have nothing but deaths from aircraft, but that is not the case anymore.

I also practiced and practiced with the AA and my k/d for air defense is reversed now. I have double the kills than deaths from AA now. I also learned new tactics to keep players from dominating the game with any one piece of equipment using C4.

The biggest problem I see from many players when I am the one in the tank or jet is they have no clue how to deal with armor or aircraft. There is a way, you just have to take the time to learn how. Once you do you'll not hate people that use them any more - you'll just think, "easy kill" and go kill them.

[Hoppum]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

Whiners always complain about stuff that they can easily sort themselves. If someones spawn raping in a tank why don't u just switch from your precious stat-giving medic kit to anti-tank?

My favourite is people's excuse for losing is cos the rest of their team sucks, i just say 'Why don't YOU play better to make up for it then?' that always shuts them up.

And if you hate the game so much don't play it.

[Riggz]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

Well said.,..but it's easier for the whiners to whine then gain skill.. so they do so..and on forums they unite instead of doing so in game using teamwork to beat the so called imbalances.

[stilla-killa]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

no comment on this topic b/c i might get banned

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

i whine cause i get pwned all the time

[[3SA]D|Sgt.Colinloves]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

Alot of people in tanks/jets/choppers love to kill the footmen. And will avoid meeting their equal. Its a pain in the arse when your side is getting wiped out by a tank, when a friendly one is only down the road. Yes, people need to spawn as anti-tank when base raping happens, but dont. But should you need to when you know a friendly tank is nearby?

People love the points and dont give a monkeys about their team. A shame, but not the end of the world. People will learn...untill a patch comes out to kiss it all better for them

[imported_Dr.D]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

I agree compelety. I also use the stragey if you can't win, join em'.

[old sch00l]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

LOL, ROTFL, :p you funny man. You are probably one of the whiners...

Oh man I whine like the best of them..

i.e noob tubes if caught by the same guy more than three times

and complete plane/chopper whores anoy me when they're about, and I mean proper whores raping the game till its no fun

[IVfluids]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

i'm glad i got your opinion on this, i would never have felt complete without it.

[old sch00l]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

And you own the best sig I,ve ever seen :)

[puglous]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

Planes are overpowering because they are supposed to be. Choppers are overpowering because they are supposed to be. Tanks and armor are overpowering because they are supposed to be. Foot soldiers are at the bottom of the food chain. Yes as someone else alluded, there is a pecking order. However, the game is inhernently fair and balanced. Name another FPS or online game where people didn't complain about overpowered weapons, kits, vehicles, etc.

Do you have a single fact to back that up? Oh, really? Because DICE has specifically said that they try to encorporate a "rock, paper, scissors" aspect into the game. Those exact 3 words.

The alternative is to overcome the obstacle and fight. I was getting owned by noob tubers and bunny hoppers, I learned how to deal with them. I was getting owned by tanks, I learned how to take out tanks. Choppers were ****ing me off, I learned how to take out choppers. I was getting owned by planes, I learned how to take out planes. It takes skill to own with any kit or vehicle, but everyone has the right and the ability to improve. Nobody is invincible and there is always a counter to every attack. That is balance.

WHOA! YOU FOUND A WAY TO TAKE DOWN JETS!? TELL US!

A good pilot is hard, but not impossible to take down or neutralize. If you rely on AA than you will get owned. The obvious counter is another pilot. If the pilot can't shoot him down, he can keep him occupied so he isn't taking your team out. That's called sacrificing your score for the team. It is also called balance. So what if their pilot gets a high score if your team wins through better teamwork and organization. If it gets out of hand on one server, there are hundreds more you can go to.

Jets, considering their supply and demand, they are very hard to come by. Only 2 people can be flying jets at once in an average map. So what about all the others in the map? Do they have no right to have any sort of fun because they didn't practice enough to make jets spawn any faster, or put an iron shell around their head which protects you from the "n00b-ejector" rounds shot at you from those outside the cockpit by who also followed the "go learn to fly" advice.

What possible reason is there to hang out on a BF2 forum to whine and complain? Nobody is going to change your mind. You aren't going to change mine. We will problably find you whining about something else on another forum. So go and leave in peace. Nobody told you to buy the game, nobody told you to play it as long or short as you have, nobody told you to play on ranked servers.

Pure, uncensored, uncut, organically groan, no preservatives added hypocrisy right there. If no one can change anyone else's mind, why are you posting this?

Not everyone who complains (note I say complain, most of what is TRUE whining is about "whiners" and yes, I only quoted that word the second time on purpose) HATES the game, there's just room for improvement.

And just because something can be countered, doesn't mean it's fun to deal with. We can't change the game code (offically), but DICE can. And if we can suggest ways to make the game more fun, why not? Oh yeah, because it would take away all those precious points you earn with [insert annoying aspect of the game]. And guess what, I've bunny hopped to save myself quite a few times. Yet I don't say "No, don't take it away i will lose me only chance for survival in this game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1....uh...woops I meen, do'nt take it away becuz teh whinzors r nt teh zkilled enuf 2 adapt!!!!!!!!2

Unfortunatly, it seems (as you pointed out) we'll have a hard time making any progress on this forum, because every thread belongs to one oppinion these days. There are almost no true discussions. People would rather hide behind those they agree with than stand up for what they claim to believe in.

I'm sorry if this post is harsh, but reason and diplomacy just seem to get people ignored.

[Older-OMO]

Re: A Response to the Whiners and Complainers

You didn't read my post. I said, "I don't have a problem with people who are offering constructive criticism, but most are just whining hoping to get validation from all the other whiners." I enjoy reading other people's ideas on how to improve the game. I am sure Dice reads those message as opposed to all of the "I hate this game becasue of _____ (fill in the blank). I will stop playing this game because of ______(fill in the blank). This game sucks because of _____(fill in the blank).

I didn't start the thread to change peoples mind. I acknowledged that most people already have their minds made up. I stated that the whiners represented the minority of players. Unfortunately, they are the most vocal. Problems with no solutions are a waste of time. I suggested that there were alternative ways to approach the issue.

Dice didn't say they were taking the skill out of the game did they? Are you implying that a noob pilot or ground troup should be able to take a skilled pilot just because they pointed an AA at a plane? Planes and choppers wouldn't have any purpose if that were true. The rock to a plane (scissors) is not the AA, it is an equally or better skilled pilot. I think you grossly generalized what they said. This isn't about luck and random chance as you seem to imply. Rock, paper, scissor suggests balance. Even if you can't counter a good pilot, you have alternatives that still allow you to have fun and your team to win.

Who said the imperative is to take the jet down. But yes, I have taken down plane whores that have racked up huge scores by flying a fighter. Sending planes to harass are enough to distract a good pilot so he doesn't have a free pass to wipe out your team. Sometimes, you have to accept that a pilot is going to get a good score, but that doesn't mean you give up or stop having fun. As I said, you have to find another way. Planes can't cap flags or create a ticket drain enough to win on their own.

Learning how to fly on live servers isn't what I suggested. Practice on the single player game until you stop crashing and understand how to shoot down a jet. Then use those skills against real people. Most everyone has had to learn how to fly these planes.

Are you telling me 2 jets can be everywhere on a map? You can't come up with alternative strategies to deal with a pilot? If you want to play the same pattern and strategy whenever you play, I can see how you would be frustrated if that was disrupted by a skilled pilot. Then again, why wouldn't skilled infantry, squads or armor cause you to not have fun.

I am not opposed to change at all. I think they have done a good job of providing a balanced game with all of the changes they have made and plan to make. However, every problem with the game does not have to be catastrophic or result in new code. They have provided a platform (not perfect) that allows you to be creative in figuring out how to find multiple ways of approaching a problem.


I will start the dialog by offer some suggestions to deal with good pilots:

Note, getting killed by a bomber or even a fighter is inevitable if you are in a vehicle of any kind. There is no hiding from a good pilot. You usually can't see or hear them coming. You get no warning tones. Your only chance is that they miss.

Here are some ideas to minimize the effects of a good plane pilot:

1. Spread out when traveling or capping - This is especially important at the beginning of a round. Nothing gets them salivating more than when they see 3 or 4 vehicles clustered together traveling to or capping a flag. You can get to the same flag with different routes. If you are taking the same route, put some space between you and the vehicle in front. Losing 1 vehicle in a convoy is better than all.

2. Try not to load up vehicles with more than 1 person. If there are enough, 1 person per vehicle is safer - If you load a Jeep or an APC with 3-4 people, they just hit the jackpot. 1 target, 4 kills. Also, a tank with a gunner is almost always a 2 for 1 target. Even if they miss the tank, the gunner is taken out via splash damage. Never have 2 in a mobile AA, it's a complete waste.

3. Don't sit in AA stinger sites- They can take you out with the guns or a bomb. They can also see you before you see them since they get a lock tone or they can look on the map to see the AA is occupied. Regardless, you aren't going to shoot them down with a stinger. Stingers are ok for choppers. If you insist on using the stinger only get in the stinger just before you shoot.

4. Don't sit in your vehicles when capping a flag. Again, they salivate when they see or hear that a flag is turning. It's the feeding signal that there is easy prey ready to be killed .They can see vehicles on the HUD, but can't see foot soldiers. If there are no targets (i.e. only foot soldiers), they don't know where to bomb and they probably just drop on the flag. If you need armor defense while capping the flag, MOVE the armor away from the flag area so the flag cappers don't get taken out when the armor gets bombed. If you are a foot soldier, find areas that are sheltered or as far away from the flag as possible.

5. Keep moving if you are in a vehicle- If you sit, they will find you.

6. Watch the kill notifications to figure out what is happening. If the bomber just killed somebody (F15 or SU30), chances are you have a little time (20-30 seconds) before the bomber might show up in your area.

7. Don't get frustrated, getting bombed is inevitable if you are in a vehicle. If you get frustrated, you won't be able to play your game effectively and probably won't stick to the strategy or teamwork.