Being an Effective Squad Leader

[whoster69]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

2. Make clear to your squaddies what their task in the squad is (corresponding to the kit they use) - and make sure they dedicate 90% of that kit's resources to their squad. Also... Always have a plan for the squad's next objectives (use your SL map to plot the next attack/defense/action point), and talk to them often- your squaddies have to be WITH the squad to achieve the next objective, and keeping in constant communication with them keeps their contact with the squad- it will make them feel more of a obligation to stick with the squad (Tell your SM's what you spotted- especially snipers on cranes and any other snipers on high-ground, and disseminate your orders and objectives thoroughly to them).

Here's a couple of questions about the above:

First, do you pick your squad mates kits when starting the round or let them pick when playing with the same people? To me it makes more sense if the SL (SL for Squad Leader) picks and the SM (SM for Squad Mates) just do as they're told. As SL I should take into account their various strengths and also what resources I think we need.

Another approach we've tried is to have the SL call out what he wants and then it's up to each SM to jump in and say they'll take that. The problem with this approach is that it creates chatter on the channel and takes more time.

Also- do this, get your friends to play a few practices on LAN or even Co-op (single-player map LAN trick) - and get them excited about creating tactics and strategies, you guys can then discuss which ones work, which ones to use when and where, develop code-names for them, etc. Then when you jump online to battle in the 'real' thing, you all get a chance to live out the tactics when any of you become SL.

That's a great idea. We've done this before but some of them get bored going against bots. To me it makes sense because it's about practicing and refining skills.

While playing in a squad is about being 'involved'. Being a Squad Leader is also about 'involving' your Squad Mates. Everything I mentioned is also about involving them- rather than just barking orders at them and struggling to get everyone to listen, etc.

So you're saying don't try to do it all yourself, but get them to do some of the load? Can you give me a few examples?

To me it makes sense to say let's take that objective (like the next flag) and to setup what order they go in (something like so and so take point). I'd then hang back while they gray the flag and setup for the next objective. If someone is injured, I'd call for the medic. Same for resupply. Give me some ideas on how to involve them more if you can.

Thanks again for the ideas Six!

1) In our group, one guy is the squad leader most of the time. He is better at it than the rest of us. But since he is SL so much, we have to be willing to follow his orders. But I think it's a great idea for others to play SL from time to time to appreciate the extra work, if you play the role correctly.

What I don't like about one guy being the SL is that it's a hard job that gets no respect or points. It's kind of interesting from a leadership perspective, but so far it's all about grief in our squad and most people treat it as drugery.

2) We had one guy who had this problem Eventually he came around and sticked with the squad and it made a noticeable difference. That person just needs to be reminded the point in playing in a squad.

Any ideas on how to motivate him? I've tried saything things like "form up" but these get ignored. Part of our problem is one of our players has his mic set so low that the rest of us can't understand him half the time. I've tried to work with him to get him to turn up his mic, but since he lives in a different town, it isn't easy.

That brings up another question. Do you recommend using push to talk or leaving mics on all the time? We have one guy that plays in the same room that I do. He uses push to talk but then talks to me all the time (with his mic off) which is a real problem when I'm SL.

4)If people don't want to be SL, they don't have much right in continuously questioning orders. Suggestion can be helpful from time to time and a good SL should listen to them.

The only problem I have with suggestions is that it usually comes at the worst times. If people were better about making them during "down times" it would be great. In the middle of a firefight when I'm trying to give orders and listen to what the commander is saying it's a real headache.

5) This is one of the things that make being a SL more difficult than a SM. I would suggest keeping the chatter to a minimum because the SL has to hear the commander talk. In addition, once you set the marker on the map stick with it, don't change it every 20 seconds. Give the squad a goal and give them enough time and chances to obtain it.

Agreed. We once had a guy join us for a few rounds and he talked CONSTANTLY when he was SL. He's in a clan and was trying to give tips to one of our players, but it was so annoying to the rest of us that we finally had to mute him so we could hear what else was going on around us. I was amazed that someone from a clan would do this. He micromanaged everything.

But like you mentioned, you need the right attitudes/personalities. People need to want to play as a team first. If they have a "lone wolf" mentality, they shouldn't be in the squad. If I am SL I'll tell people what we are doing and if they don't want to do that, join another squad.

I find this game to be much more rewarding and fun playing in a group that plays together. Sure it takes more effort, but the pay off is greater than being a lone wolf.

Agreed. I set this up originally because I play for the teamwork. It's my favorite part. Maybe we're just at a stage where it's difficult, but I'm not having any fun right now. Almost every week I come away wishing I'd played by myself or joined a clan. I'll give it some more time though. Maybe we can work things out. I'm here asking questions to see if there's anything I can do to get us going.

Thanks for the ideas cwv_Odedge! They help a lot!

[Six.]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Thanks for the tips both of you. That reinforces a lot of what I think and also gives me some more ideas to chew on (which will help me be a better squad leader and squad mate).

A few questions. From the way you both talk, I'm getting the impression that my squad probably tries to move too fast. We're always in a hurry to go somewhere and the squad mates are always rushing the leader to make decisions very quickly. From what you said above it sounds like this is the wrong approach. That we should slow down a little, make our choices and then proceed cautiously. Is that correct? We're always rushing into things and this does often get a bunch of us killed quickly.

I'll respond to some of your other points when I'm more awake and I've had a chance to reread (and think about your posts). Thanks again guys. This helps a LOT!

This post will also answer your recent post:

Actually- what me and my local BF2 buddies do is- we all usually have a kit that we are committed to - a job each of us can specialise in; but of course, to some point the 'SL circulating trick' doesn't mix too well with that all the time. The most useful kits to have in a ground pounding squad would have to be: medic(first aid), support(supply), specops(asset/vehicle disposal), AT (enemy armour & vehicle response), and Assault (GI, and those smoke-grenades and flashbangs come handy - he's also the hard-man that should take the point/front).

To make it so that your SMs enjoy their BF2 experience, let them pick their own kits- but don't allow too much overlap (that it becomes impractical). The support guy would be important if you have specops and AT on your squad- because their specialist equipment is limited (AT rockets and C4). Knowing what kits you have on your squad will make it easier for the SL to make decisions on the field because he would know the limits of his squad.

Sometimes developing strategies and tactics is not good with bots around, you might like a clear field to actually see what you're doing, and so you can all discuss the strategy/tactic. Try practicing one tactic at a time, don't overload your friends with too much demanding information and tactical sequences. In any case... just remember, you and your friends are also meant to be having FUN... please.

Of course don't try to do it all yourself! this is a squad dammit! when you stop at an objective (the point that the SL designates), the SL should ask his squaddies to set up shop (defensive) and provide cover as the SL immediately puts the next objective up for the game plan.

To involve them more- make sure your SMs know what role they play in the squad, each of them owes each other a responsibility.
Other than that- have simple tactics that everyone can participate in regardless their kit. For example: if you want to flush out the alleys in Karkand- pair up in twos (since there's 4 of you), and slowly flush the alleys out - making sure you all have a regroup point (like the hotel- perhaps to defend it or capture it). Even taking cover requires a group effort- if anyone can spot something they can't handle easily (i.e: a tank or aircraft/helo) - SL should be the first one to call out to the squad to take their nearest cover; this will probably end up like playing musical chairs, where the last one to find cover will get topped.

Perhaps one of the main problems is- it can be easy for squads to become totally dispersed through the map; simple: get them all to regroup for an OBJECTIVE- this keeps it interesting. Trust me, when regrouping around the back of the TV station on Sharqi to raid the CP - everyone gets pretty damn excited. Especially when engaging in a fire-fight in the staircase and spotting claymores and traps.

And finally... yes- keep your squad from going too far and too fast. It puts immense strain on the medic and SL if people in your squad keep dying around you.

Once again, imagine theres a 'front' between your teams CP and the enemy CP- you know that the enemies will be coming from a general direction, and you know that your teams forces will converge to meet the enemy force; THIS is the 'front'- stay a safe distance from it, and engage the enemy from there, when you have sufficient reinforcements around you and appear to be capturing the intended CP- YOUR front is advancing - keep an eye on your minimap for this.

Also- at times, decide when or when not to take the main arteries into battle- this is where most people run into tanks... and get ran over by them. Know the limits of your squad - know when to pull out and take a detour.

[Odedge]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

What I don't like about one guy being the SL is that it's a hard job that gets no respect or points. It's kind of interesting from a leadership perspective, but so far it's all about grief in our squad and most people treat it as drugery.

If the position is a burden in your group, rotate it every round. There everyone gets the fair share of the so-called burden. Our squad leader seems to get enough points, being a support guy chucking ammo packs doesn't hurt. But in a way it rewards him for the points he is missing out on.

Any ideas on how to motivate him? I've tried saything things like "form up" but these get ignored. Part of our problem is one of our players has his mic set so low that the rest of us can't understand him half the time. I've tried to work with him to get him to turn up his mic, but since he lives in a different town, it isn't easy.

That brings up another question. Do you recommend using push to talk or leaving mics on all the time? We have one guy that plays in the same room that I do. He uses push to talk but then talks to me all the time (with his mic off) which is a real problem when I'm SL.

Since I don't know the person, I don't know what could motivate him. But I would say, don't play in the squad, just play in the game. Maybe the fact that he won't be involved will motivate him. Or you can ask Darth Vader, he will find new ways to motivate him! :cry:

Well if you are using VOIP, it's push to talk any ways. I prefer VOIP if the quality is good. It normally identifies who is talking, it's lowers the surround sounds of the game so you can hear, and you can talk to the commander. If we need to use TeamSpeak, it's push to talk. Mainly because people will say something verbally (usually a complaint about how they just got killed) but they don't need to transmit that frustration to the squad. With voice activated, he hear that, the kitty cat meowing, cars going by and who knows what else.

The only problem I have with suggestions is that it usually comes at the worst times. If people were better about making them during "down times" it would be great. In the middle of a firefight when I'm trying to give orders and listen to what the commander is saying it's a real headache.

I would suggest to them to only make suggestions when a plan isn't going well. If you attack a given base 4 time with out any success, maybe it's time you do something different. If the SL is hanging back, especially if he is hiding, he doesn't get to see what's really going on. This is when you should listen to your squad in not only what they are saying, but the tone of voice they are using. You don't want them to get too discourage trying to reach a goal. That is why if a base is tough to get and believe it is helpful, I will verbally remind the squad why we are doing this.

p.s. Good info Six.

[Six.]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

p.s. Good info Six.

No woz Odedge, glad to know I got like-minded team-players, hope to run into you in BF2 somewhere sometime. I'm actually not Six. in BF2, I'm actually TheMartyman; so you'll know who the hell is screaming at everyone to "SPOT EVERY-F***ING-THING DAMMIT!!! YOU ALL SUCK!!!" if you ever hear/see it.

I'm a nice guy, swear- I'm usually a lot more supportive towards my squad :p

[whoster69]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Again, great info guys! These discussions are helping me visualize what you mean. Some of it we're already doing and some of it, none of us had thought of. This really helps a lot! Thanks! As I have time to ponder things, I'll post some more questions.

[Six.]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Again, great info guys! These discussions are helping me visualize what you mean. Some of it we're already doing and some of it, none of us had thought of. This really helps a lot! Thanks! As I have time to ponder things, I'll post some more questions.

Heh heh, yeah- funny you still have the will and the strength to read it all :p but I'm glad you acknowledge whatever we've said and putting it to use; I appreciate your appreciation of me and Odedge's words.

Another tip for squad survival; avoid being commander candy (arty food)- do spread out a little. If your squad is going to traverse up a main artery into battle (i.e: a wide road, passage, bridge, etc...) - split evenly so that your SMs are using both sides of the road instead of the one side; this gives any incomming enemy 2 areas to focus on, rather than mowing through all of you in one go, other than that- it allows your squad easy line of sight to enemies.

The coolest thing I ever done with my local squad mates was- we were moving across a bridge (Mashtuur City)- 3 on one side, 2 on the other side - Our Medic spotted a tank approaching in the distance, I quickly popped a few C4 on the bridge- and as the tank started firing, we all dived off the sides of the bridge- and made safe landing with our parachutes; I swear, we looked like elite commandos when we all did this at the same time. And as the tank passed over- I detonated the C4- and it felt pretty awesome when I hit the switch; plus getting the all-round "bravo" from me mates.

Sticking to the sides of streets will also ensure you're closer to cover (Karkand is best for this), and will be harder to notice by enemy commanders, snipers and other units. At best, if your squad is not kitted out to deal with a big battle- stick to smaller passages and other ways around.

Ooooh, and one big tip for the Medic... keep a vehicle handy nearby; it doubles as an ambulance, and it seems, a medic in a vehicle has a larger healing area than when on foot. Just make sure the vehicle is parked in a good place when engaging an enemy; and in worst case scenario- if you have to retreat from an advancing enemy - pop a few C4 on the vehicle if you're not going to use it anymore (provided you have SpecOps on your squad), and wait for the enemy to come closer; they're bound to pick it up to try and use against you. The vehicle is also useful for any other kits that have an aura effect.

[alextaylor29]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Wow, glad this thread is still going! (I'm the one who started it, years ago :) ). I've been enjoying Euro Forces with it's larger maps where full and well run sqauds are even more important.

What I've been doing slightly differently as a squad leader on these maps is actually dividing my squad among two small and fast jeeps. At first it sounds counter intuitive, but EF maps reward speed and mobility as they're so large.

At the beginning of each map I get a jeep and tell my squad to grab one as well. Together we're two mobile mini squads. In the beginning of a map, if we're quick we can cap 2 to 3 flags in the first minute on operation smoke screen for example. Each jeep with 3 people in it, take a flag and go for it. If it's undefended they hop out of the jeep (flags cap faster that way) and the flag turns in about 7 secs, much too fast for arty to come in.

Once we grab it, we go to the next flag. Also by having two mobile mini-squads even headed towards the same flag, we're much less suceptible to everyone dying at once in a single vehicle such as a mine, or by being bombed.

Switching gears slightly as I've found this to be almost universally true. Where there's an enemy UAV over head, 90% of the time it means enemy arty will follow shortly. I've saved my squads many, many times by simply keeping an eye on the sky, espeically when near a flag. When an enemy UAV appears, I tell my team, loudly and decicively to disperse or get inside a building. It's almost a rule Enemy UAV above = Arty within 20 seconds. Remember this.

Seriously remember this as a squad leader. Nothing will indear you more to your men when you say enmy arty is inbound, disperse, move away from the flag! Only to be proven right 5 seconds later. I've gotten many, many thank you's that way. When you save their lives and prove to be a good leader the will follow your 'commands.'

So in EF, stay mobile, use the fast jeeps, divide into two mini squads even if going toward the same flag. Cap the flag then move on to the next one. Works on all EF maps.

Furthermore, not sure if I've mentioned this previously, constantly be in communication with your commander. Often times even when our UAV is over another flag, I politely ask the commander if he can scan an ememy flag my squad is going to take. More than not, he'll be happy to do it and tell you if there are enmies there. I do this all the time, then tell my squad what the results are.

Example:

Me: 'Guys, hold up, let me ask the commder to scan the flag ahead of us to see if enemies are there'

5 Secs later..

Me: 'OK commander says it's clear so let's move in quickly to cap it. I'll ask for a supply crate to be dropped at the flag as well.'

This works very well.

In addition, 'Hit 'em where they ain't.' McArther said this in Korea. Think about it. Why go for flags where half the enemy team is there. Sure I guess if you want to get in a good fight, but I'd argue it's more valuable to cap flags and deny enemies there spawn points. So I often as the commander to do a scan for me, requesting him to tell me, which enemy flags are undefended or lightly defended. Takes him 10 secs to scan and he tells me. I then grab a fast jeep usually taking the wide route around the map (NOT DRIVING DOWN THE MIDDLE FOR GODS SAKE) :) and just drive up and cap the flag. Most often the enemy flag farthest from the main action has the lightest defense. So go for it.

Again, most of these newer tips are for Euro Forces which I've been playing almost exclusively since it came out.

Thanks for keeping this thread alive everyone. There is some superb advice here guys, really good stuff. I still name my squad 'GunFightrs' so if you ever see this squad name, I'm running it, so join it! My BF player name is 'alexandertaylor' (yes I know very orginal.) :)

Sure wish the Moderator would make this thread sticky now. It certainly warrants it. (HINT HINT!)

Also guys, this just occurred to me, and I'm sure most of you squad leaders are practicing this. When useing VOIP as a squad leader, be polite. Don't yell and get excited, and repremand your team mates for not following you. Use calm measured tones, letting them know what the next step is, thank them often for following you, and generally be cordial.

It's amazing how far some kinds words, 'Great job guys on that last flag cap, well done,' will go to keep your squad together and cohesive.

Also tell them what the plan is, or at the very least what the next objective is. So as you're capping a flag for example say. "OK guys as soon as we cap this flag, let's head to the Southern Flag, which I've just maked on your map. I'll get us a UAV and Arty on it ahead of time and see if I can get us some supplies."

Then as you finish capping move out. Just simple, easy stuff to do, but goes a long away.

Lastly, be polite to your commander! I've gotten very frustrated when asking a commander repeatedly for supplies when my team is pinned down defending a flag and running out of ammo." I try to resist getting ****ed off, and poilitely using VOIP ask the Commnder, "Hey Commander this is Squad 3. We could really, really use some supplies here, as we're getting over run defending this flag. If you could drop some I'd really appreicate it." I then direclty after ask for a supply drop looking at the ground, so the Commander can simply say 'Accept' on this Map.

Again simple tips, nothing fancy here. It's quite amusing to me when I join a squad only to have a super excited squad leader be constantly yelling on the Mic, or having a calm squad leader talking, but always having to ask him, "OK what's next, where do we go from here Squad leader?"

I end up just getting frustrated and creating my own GunFightrs Squad, most of the time. :)

[Six.]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Wow, glad this thread is still going! (I'm the one who started it, years ago :) ). I've been enjoying Euro Forces with it's larger maps where full and well run sqauds are even more important.

Hell yeah, it's an awfully good thread- puts a lot of emphasis where most people don't pay much attention to because they care more about their points.

BF2 is just so much more rewarding being a part of a good team.

Great tips and hints by the way. Oh yeah- don't hint at the mod/admin to sticky this... tell him to. It's definately worth it. Perhaps finally we'll see more team-players at the end of the day.

[Red Devil]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

DON'T GIVE AWAY THE POSITION OF YOUR SQUAD LEADER BY FIRING YOUR GUN AT SOMEONE RIGHT AFTER YOU SPAWN.

Sorry, that just drives me crazy. Here I am hiding so I am not detected so they can keep spawning on me and there's always *someone* who fires, gives away my position, they get me, and we lose the spawn spot.

Argh...

[imported_yehaaa7]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

nice. i play as squad leader. but it is always 1 or 2 in it

[Morg]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Along that line... if your SL is trying to hide from the enemy don't drop med kits or ammo at his position. Everybody can see them. If your enemy has the slightest bit of intelligence he'll know that there are enemy forces at your spot when suddenly a kit pops up on his screen.

Either heal/resupply him with the kit in hand or wait until your squad has regrouped (spawned).

[whoster69]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Good info Alextaylor. I like to play Operation Smokescreen quite a bit too. Several friends of mine and I usually grab tanks and then slowly take the flags one by one. We win this way a lot. What strategy has beaten us the most? The one you describe! So I think I'm switching over to fast moving jeeps.

I like your ideas about being polite and tasking your squad before you head out of a base. Thanks for the input.

[Six.]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

nice. i play as squad leader. but it is always 1 or 2 in it

Click the 'Custom Squad' button instead and give it a sensible name - hardcore squad players don't join the 'Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta' etc squads because it could just be another average joe that wants the commander to do favours for them.

Like Helo pilots/gunners, they start a squad named "Helo/Helicopter" and when there's the 2 of them in the squad, the leader should have the sensibility to lock it.

Other possibilities that I've seen is 'Hotel' (for Karkand), 'Anti-Tank/AT' (Anti-Tank Die-hards, mostly seen in Karkand), and various clan-squads that usually only allow their own clan-members to be in the squad.

I like your ideas about being polite and tasking your squad before you head out of a base. Thanks for the input.

And it's terribly true; in all reality, no one likes an Ass-hole. A cool, clean, and smooth communication is a lot more 'professional' than some jerk barking orders at people. It's also a good way to earn respect.

[alextaylor29]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Also as noted in my first page, when you create a squad and use a 'unique' name, immediately invite people to join it at the beginning of a round. You're much more likely to get people to join your squad when the round just starts rather than halfway through the game. I just continue inviting different people until I have a full squad.

[alextaylor29]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Wow it's been a year and 4,000+ plus reads later and this thread is still not stickied? Admin C'mon! :)

Anyway I thought I'd put in a few more squad leader tips and tricks that I've found useful 2 years into playing BF2:

* As you're capping a flag with your squad and prepare to move out, request a vehicle drop from the commander so you have a quick escape route.

* Travel in 2 seperate vehicles if you can help it (with a full squad of course) this way if one vehicle gets blown up you don't lose everyone at once. As the squad leader if we're in two vehicles I often follow behind as the first vehicle is usually attacked first. That way if guys get killed in the first vehicle I can revive them when I'm a medic.

* Play as a medic as a squad leader. By providing health and revives you build squad loyalty and keep your squad in the fight longer.

* Know when NOT to revive your team mates. It's it's an insane battle pull back and hide out to you squadies can spawn on you. It sucks leaving your dead guys on the field, but you'll laugh when all five spawn on you and they go kick the asses of the guys who just killed them and are still loitering of their bodies. :)

* Know when to retreat. What I mean by this is if you're assaulting a difficult flag (Hotel on Matsur City for example) but continually getting your butts kicked, it's OK to pull back and go for another flag. I tend to run my squads as flag capping, mobile machines, rather than static defenders, but after 5+ coordiated assaults on a flag, if we can't get it done I have no problem getting a vehicle drop and going for another flag.

* OK Big tip here so listen up. If you're assaulting an enemy flag near the enemy arty keep your ears open for enemy arty firing. Let me clarify a bit here. Even if there is no enemy UAV above us, when we're a full squad 6 folks tightly bunched attacking a single target, it is almost irresistable to an enemy commander to not try and arty you. Of course you can't always hear when enemy arty is firing, however when I do, I always tell my squad to disperse, even if we haven't capped the flag yet. From the first sound of enemy arty firing, you have exactly 12 seconds (I've timed it) until the arty hits you, assuming you're targeted. So when I hear arty firing and we'll all attacking a flag, I tell my team to "Move away, enemy arty is firing and it's probablly for us, move away, move away now...."

I have literally saved my squad 30+ times from being obliterated by enemy arty for doing this. Even if the flag is not yet yours, by moving away from the flag, enemy arty will team kill all the defenders you were battling a few minutes ago so it works perfectly! :)

So maybe at 5,000+ views with no other sticked post like this, we'll get this stickied?

Comments welcome!!

PS. I always play on rank, PB and VOIP enabled servers under "alexandertaylor" and my squad name is always "GunFightrs" so feel free to join it if you see it OK?