Being an Effective Squad Leader

[EvilP]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Indeed many games can be completely turned by blowing the assets and harassing the enemy commander as well as people trying to fix/recap the asset base.

It's not always feasible however. Carrier maps you'd have to get to the carrier where repairing assets is easy as cake. Wake has the artillery next to a fixed spawn on an island etc.

Oh I had this excellent squad yesterday. Was just me and one other guy most of the time, sometimes a few others. We kept on swapping the lead when we died and one of us always had a swift vehicle at hand. No voice comms or anything between us, just trust and compatible playstyles. We'd wheel up to flags and completely kung fu any enemies whether they had armor or big guns.

[kev_1990]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

excellent advice thanks alot :)

[imported_RpTheHotrod]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

How about another addition:

When you hear the enemy artillery, immediatly tell your squad to move, just as a precaution. Sucks getting your whole squad wiped out in one arty.

[Six.]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

How about another addition:

When you hear the enemy artillery, immediatly tell your squad to move, just as a precaution. Sucks getting your whole squad wiped out in one arty.

Intuition plays a big part in being a leader- sure thing, if it's a bit too quiet- ask for a bit of a shuffle around, lest you wish to donate points to the enemy commander. When on a mission to destroy enemy commander assets; eventually- you'll be annoying the enemy commander very much; and he's likely to launch a personal arty on your position; use your intuition. And also- bomb their UAV trailer first; it keeps their commander blind enough to lose track of what you're going to destroy next (provided the commander has other duties to perform; such as battle-support for the primary contingent)

Should always keep in mind- the opposition; you will know if your opposition is very well organized and very high-skilled; and when playing against these, you will remember that they know what to avoid and when they find an opportunity to attack; know when these opportunities appear for them, so then you know what opportunities pop up for you.

[Morg]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Nice topic here. If you like have a quick view here for more helpful tactics and guides. It's the tactical discussion forum from Tactical Gamer and there are a lot of gems there.

I want to comment on a few things:

Really well organized squads don't work too well in BF2 anyway. If you get more than 2 people sitting next to each other it's like a sign saying "artillery here plz".

I outright disagree. If you are a competent squad leader on defense you will tell your guys to spread out, especially on defense. This minimizes losses and ensure there is always one guy left to pick up the medic kit. And if you are moving you should be quick enough to not be caught by the artillery.

People should learn how to do rejoining squads

It's a viable tactic for small spec-ops or sniper squads who don't want to lose their position and I've done it too. But when I am leading a full squad I prefer to stay. This has several pros:
- waypoints stay up - members know the plan and the commander does too
- members get used to you giving commands
- less confusion in the whole

Rejoining squads on pubbies tend to trickle on the enemy position as they rejoin, they have less impact and so are easier to repel even by a mediocre defense.

To assault or not to assault as a squad leader really depends on your situational awareness. The least you should do is to designate a pointman who catches ambushes and incoming fire for you. It also depends on your squad. Some people simply need you leading by example and some are good at executing verbal commands.

[alextaylor29]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Thanks for the input guys, this has turned into a very informative thread, me included!

[kvbrock82]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

what i hate most is when i join a squad and try to spawn with my leader but he is too busy whoring some attack helicopter!

[Six.]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

what i hate most is when i join a squad and try to spawn with my leader but he is too busy whoring some attack helicopter!

Thats the cue to join a better squad - thats on the ground and well away from any aircraft other than the transport carriers.

[BlackEagle[UK]]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

great guide! top tips in here

[whoster69]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Guys, I'm back with more questions on how to be a good squad leader/make our squad functional (right now I'd describe us as a disfunctional family).

Three friends and I have been trying to make a four player squad but it just isn't going well. Here's the problems as I see them.

1) Two of the people don't volunteer to be squad leader. I think we should all be squad leader sometimes because that helps everyone appreciate how hard a job it is.

2) One guy in our group likes to go off by himself without telling anyone. The squad leader has to discover this and then find out why he isn't following orders which wastes the squad leaders' time.

3) Two of the guys in our squad are impulsive/easily distracted. If they're given an order to go to point X and on the way they see something else going on, they'll head over and deal with that instead of first spotting it and asking the squad leader about it.

4) Two of the guys on our squad spend a lot of time nagging the squad leader/disagreeing with his orders (stuff like, "I think that's a bad idea we should do X" when they're a squadmate which creates huge problems because the squad leader now how to argue order which takes up his time and fills the comm channel with unnecessary chatter). In my opinion, the squad leader is the one in charge and the squad mates should do as ordered. I think it's OK for them to offer information if it's a good time to do so.

5) When I'm squad leader, sometimes I find it very daunting to make a bunch of rapid fire decisions, deal with insubordination, talk to the commander, place markers on the map, etc. all at the same time when things start happening fast. Any ideas on how to deal with this? I realize I'll get better with practice, but it gets hairy sometimes.

The four of us meet regularly for about 2 - 3 hours once a week to work on stuff like this and we also play pickup games from time to time in groups of 2 - 4. For some reason 4 seems a lot harder than 3. I haven't figured out why, but that 4th person seems to add just enough to the decision load that it gets a lot harder. We've been doing this for about two months and I've seen little improvement in our squad tactics.

I used to play with just one other friend and frankly, most of the time, I think we were more effective this way. I really enjoy the teamwork aspect of this game and really want the 4 of us to be able to be a squad, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's ever going to work out. I'm beginning to think the personalities involved may not be the right mix. I just don't know what to do at this point.

Any advice/help/insights are greatly appreciated.

[Six.]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Guys, I'm back with more questions on how to be a good squad leader/make our squad functional (right now I'd describe us as a disfunctional family).

Three friends and I have been trying to make a four player squad but it just isn't going well.

Okay... well- here's the thing- first cab off the rank- tell your friends- if they're not going to play like a team; don't join the squad. Harsh, but- hey, you want it to work, so you gotta bark like the bitch.
The following will correspond to your questions by number:

1. The way to circulate squad leaders- is: everytime the SL dies- the SL should leave the squad and then rejoin it; that this does is- the SL will become a SM instead (Squad member) and the next person in the squad member list will be SL. This also keeps the Squad spawn active- because no one can spawn on a dead SL. Thing is, your friends don't even need to volunteer; the only problem is- getting them to get in the habit of doing this too.

2. Make clear to your squaddies what their task in the squad is (corresponding to the kit they use) - and make sure they dedicate 90% of that kit's resources to their squad. Also... Always have a plan for the squad's next objectives (use your SL map to plot the next attack/defense/action point), and talk to them often- your squaddies have to be WITH the squad to achieve the next objective, and keeping in constant communication with them keeps their contact with the squad- it will make them feel more of a obligation to stick with the squad (Tell your SM's what you spotted- especially snipers on cranes and any other snipers on high-ground, and disseminate your orders and objectives thoroughly to them).

Hey, once we had a SL that sang to us over the VoIP... and it worked, funnily enough (his rendition of 'Lean on Me' as 'Spawn on Me' was breath-taking, and surely enough, all his SM's spawned on him all the time - just to make him shut up).

3. Same deal as #2. Also, try telling them that a team gets more kills/points watching each other's backs - because, that way each of you would be able to see things and enemies that each of you can't see yourselves. If 4 people can watch each other's '6'es, technically your whole squad would have a 360 degree view of the battle. Also 'spotting' while doing this will also give your squad a 'personal' UAV.

4. If your squad does what I said in point #1 - they'll all get to have a go at being bitched at, and from there on in, they'll all learn to STFU and just listen to the SL. Also- point #1 allows each SM to have a go at being the big bitch on top, so they DO get to have their way when it's their turn (and also goes to show how good their opinions and ideas REALLY are, depending how long his/her leadership lasts).

5. SL should not be at the front of the line- he should be there around the back to stay alive so he can be a mobile spawn point, it would also be realistic if the SL was not using a kit that should be at the front of the line (i.e: medic). Now, while you're behind your squad- you now have the time and cover to take a moment to plan and plot objectives. Also- IF your squad is finally behaving like a cooperative squad and sticking together- make sure you approach your objectives SLOWLY- this ensures your survival, as you don't end up too far from your team's front (and in too deep behind the enemy front - where you should be virtually surrounded by enemies). Learn to PUSH your teams front instead of penetrating it to get to your objectives; it gets more kills, and at best- minimises deaths to your squad/team).

Also- do this, get your friends to play a few practices on LAN or even Co-op (single-player map LAN trick) - and get them excited about creating tactics and strategies, you guys can then discuss which ones work, which ones to use when and where, develop code-names for them, etc. Then when you jump online to battle in the 'real' thing, you all get a chance to live out the tactics when any of you become SL.

While playing in a squad is about being 'involved'. Being a Squad Leader is also about 'involving' your Squad Mates. Everything I mentioned is also about involving them- rather than just barking orders at them and struggling to get everyone to listen, etc.

Lastly, send this post to your friends- that way, you don't have to be the bitch they have to put up with yapping to them, I AM, And they can't do sh*t about it because they don't know me. (it seems, they don't like listening to you :P , but you'll build your 'respect' with them as you go, if you can prove to be a good squaddie when squadding up with them, all of you can do this, and learn to respect and listen to one another).

[Odedge]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

whoster69,

You just described the process my buddies and I have gone through and to a degree, still go through. We play with up to 4-5 people depending on people's schedule.

1) In our group, one guy is the squad leader most of the time. He is better at it than the rest of us. But since he is SL so much, we have to be willing to follow his orders. But I think it's a great idea for others to play SL from time to time to appreciate the extra work, if you play the role correctly.

2) We had one guy who had this problem Eventually he came around and sticked with the squad and it made a noticeable difference. That person just needs to be reminded the point in playing in a squad.

3) Well sometimes this can be a good thing for the entire team. I do this from time to time because I believe I can make a reasonable choice, but my SL doesn't like it. Tell them that you guys are better when you stick together. The whole point in being in a squad is to stick together and work together.

4) This relates to number 1. If everyone rotated being SL, they could decide what to do for a given map. If people don't want to be SL, they don't have much right in continuously questioning orders. Suggestion can be helpful from time to time and a good SL should listen to them.

5) This is one of the things that make being a SL more difficult than a SM. I would suggest keeping the chatter to a minimum because the SL has to hear the commander talk. In addition, once you set the marker on the map stick with it, don't change it every 20 seconds. Give the squad a goal and give them enough time and chances to obtain it.

In addition, the SL should never drive. This will give him a chance to look at the screen and give orders and such. If you feel you are fairly safe while capturing the flag, open the Squad screen and give your order.

It all comes down to willingness to put everyone's needs aside for the need of the squad. There are good and bad aspects to being in a squad and everyone who is in one has to want to be in it. I have found that a pick-up squad can work wonderfully if they people want to work together.

Sure, there are certain things you can learn to do to make things flow easier. We have established "guidelines' to playing. This helps us work together easier and makes the game fun.

But like you mentioned, you need the right attitudes/personalities. People need to want to play as a team first. If they have a "lone wolf" mentality, they shouldn't be in the squad. If I am SL I'll tell people what we are doing and if they don't want to do that, join another squad.

I find this game to be much more rewarding and fun playing in a group that plays together. Sure it takes more effort, but the pay off is greater than being a lone wolf.

[Six.]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

whoster69,

You just described the process my buddies and I have gone through and to a degree, still go through. We play with up to 4-5 people depending on people's schedule.

... ... ... ...

But like you mentioned, you need the right attitudes/personalities. People need to want to play as a team first. If they have a "lone wolf" mentality, they shouldn't be in the squad. If I am SL I'll tell people what we are doing and if they don't want to do that, join another squad.

I find this game to be much more rewarding and fun playing in a group that plays together. Sure it takes more effort, but the pay off is greater than being a lone wolf.

Wow... Odedge! WE WERE MADE FOR EACH OTHER!!! :p LOL!
We kinda cancelled each other's posts out, but we virtually had the same thing in mind, though covering some things that me or you missed out.

I'd play in a squad with you anytime buddy- you got the right idea on ya.

[whoster69]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Thanks for the tips both of you. That reinforces a lot of what I think and also gives me some more ideas to chew on (which will help me be a better squad leader and squad mate).

A few questions. From the way you both talk, I'm getting the impression that my squad probably tries to move too fast. We're always in a hurry to go somewhere and the squad mates are always rushing the leader to make decisions very quickly. From what you said above it sounds like this is the wrong approach. That we should slow down a little, make our choices and then proceed cautiously. Is that correct? We're always rushing into things and this does often get a bunch of us killed quickly.

I'll respond to some of your other points when I'm more awake and I've had a chance to reread (and think about your posts). Thanks again guys. This helps a LOT!

[Odedge]

Re: Being an Effective Squad Leader

Thanks for the tips both of you. That reinforces a lot of what I think and also gives me some more ideas to chew on (which will help me be a better squad leader and squad mate).

A few questions. From the way you both talk, I'm getting the impression that my squad probably tries to move too fast. We're always in a hurry to go somewhere and the squad mates are always rushing the leader to make decisions very quickly. From what you said above it sounds like this is the wrong approach. That we should slow down a little, make our choices and then proceed cautiously. Is that correct? We're always rushing into things and this does often get a bunch of us killed quickly.

I'll respond to some of your other points when I'm more awake and I've had a chance to reread (and think about your posts). Thanks again guys. This helps a LOT!

There is a fine balance between taking things too slow and rushing things. After you take a base you have a few things to worry about.

1. Are there any enemies still in the base? There is little point in taking the base if you leave and have it captured 10 seconds later.

2. Will the commander drop artillery just to **** you off? If so, you need to clear the flag area quickly and find some cover.

3. Are there any enemies coming in to respond to the switching of the flags? This is more of concern with maps that have flags close together.

So after you take a base, have the SL figure out what you are doing while everyone else goes into a clean up/defense mode. They need to clear the base of any enemies that are hiding and get ready for any that might come in. Also, don't bunch up when you are in defense mode. This will give the enemy commander a good reason to drop artillery.

Once, the SL makes a decision, people should be ready to move. Your SM should be keeping tabs on transportation and move quickly. One guideline we have is the "rapid pick up". The driver will say... "Odedge, rapid pick up" and I will respond "OK". The driver will drive right into me while I have my "Enter" key pressed down. It's a bit silly, but it works.

Another concern with squads is transportation. We tend to use jeeps/DPV more than anything else. They are a quick form of transportation and especially useful when capturing a flag far from you. If the flags are close, we will use armor (especially APCs). Tanks tend to be a bit slow, but if needed, we will use them.

When you are entering a base, you should find the best entrance points. You should try to enter the base at different areas, while still covering each other. We also have different levels of entering a base. If there is s UAV showing no one, that is a green light. If we see a few dots or we were just here, we go in yellow. If it's heavily populated or we have failed a few times before, we go in red. Granted we don't always use these terms, but this will help determine how aggressive we are.

I don't recommend rushing straight for the flag like a headless chicken. This will usually just get you killed. But if you wait for the perfect time, nothing will happen. Capturing flags is an art. In most cases, you can't clear the base out, then capture the flag. If you try this, the people you just killed are probably respawing before you get the flag. The key in capturing a flag is fighting from the flag radius. There if they die, they shouldn't have enough time to respawn because the flag should be neutral by then.

The squad must follow the flow of the SL. They should wait for the SL to give them orders and not rush them. What ****es me off more than anything is when people ask "Requesting orders" the second we get done with a base. Give me at least 5 seconds to open the the screen and make a few mouse clicks. But depending on the squad and the tactic, I will give verbal orders first, then mark them on the map. Some times we will just defend two bases so it's fairly easy to verbally tell people to go to the other base.

1. The way to circulate squad leaders- is: every time the SL dies- the SL should leave the squad and then rejoin it; that this does is- the SL will become a SM instead (Squad member) and the next person in the squad member list will be SL. This also keeps the Squad spawn active- because no one can spawn on a dead SL. Thing is, your friends don't even need to volunteer; the only problem is- getting them to get in the habit of doing this too.

I agree with most of what you stated except for this.

First, I think it would be better for the squad to have 1 person lead for the round. This way some one can try a specific tactic (like defending two bases) an entire round. If you are changing SL when they die, the flow of the squad is going to change.

Second, I hate this "tactic" as it requires little skill and cheapens the game. Have I done it before? Sure, once in a while when there is just two of us going into the commander's base to take out assets. Do we do this on a regular basis? No way! There is a challenge in having one SL who can give commands and be a spawn point. Our job as a squad is to protect that person above all others.

If we can just switch that person when ever we want, that makes the game too easy and some times too confusing for others not with the program. This tactic was used in a tournament I played in and was quite silly to me. You spend more time looking at the squad screen than playing the game. Use this if you wish, but I don't think it will make you a better player. I really hope the fix this in next patch.