Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

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  • vbl

    #1

    Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

    I am about to share some very special, sacred and powerful knowledge taken from an ancient text, shown below:



    The ninja's secret?

    "Don't bother", because there isn't any stealth in BF2.

    The Sat Scan, UAV, jet radar, enemy's ability to respawn, personal damage indicator and simpler spotting system all mean that the likelihood of someone surviving undetected for more than a few minutes is incredibly low. The spotting, damage indicator and respawn features were all present in BF1942, DC, and BFV and gameplay was balanced when it came to being sneaky. Good players sniffed out baddies, while sneaky ones could actually practice their craft without having their positions broadcast to the world every 25 seconds.

    I blame the UAV, Sat Scan, and the training wheels known as "jet ground radar" for the death of stealth.

    But why is stealth important in BF2? The same reasons that anything in this game is important - variety and depth.

    Recall the last battle you had where there was a UAV active. You probably spent half of your time looking at your mini-map, tracking the little red dots. Your ability to get kills becomes less a matter of intelligent position or skill, and more a matter of your ability to walk toward a point and react faster once you get there.

    Things like the UAV and Sat Scan cripple the depth of gameplay because they put everyone on the same level. Advantages due to location or awareness are trumped because everyone can see you and everyone can see just as well as you.

    Yes, your team can destroy these assets, and that little tidbit is the only saving grace that DICE built into the otherwise overpowering abilities of the scanners. It is, however, quite easy for a single person to defend and repair these assets. Add in supply crates and artillery, and it's even easier to defend and repair the assets from many meters away. The Commander, who is sitting around anyway, can usually tend to the assets by himself.

    Now, I'm not going to say that DICE ought to remove the Sat Scan and UAV - they have their places, and I think that there are times where they are a balanced and strategic part of gameplay.

    What follows are some changes that I believe can help temper the overbearing nature of the scanners, while still retaining their situational usefulness. These can be taken as a comprehensive set of changes or in pieces - point being, they're just suggestions and are not gameplay tested, singly or as a group.
    • Make certain vehicles invisible to scanners and jet radar. The buggy, RHIB, and light jeeps should not be visible on the Sat Scan, UAV, or ground target radar. This adds another dimension/challenge to being a good jet pilot, but also adds value to the lighter vehicles, all while giving small troops of infantry a chance to move discreetly across the map.
    • The UAV and Sat Scan should only show infantry outside of buildings, and if they are moving. This regulates the absolute nature of the scanners, and gives players another tactical layer on which to make choices and trade-offs. Move and escape but be detected? Stay hidden but be stuck and ineffective?
    • Increase the UAV recharge time. As it is, commanders can chain UAVs together so closely that they run for 90% of the round. The UAV should be a tactical tool that SLs can request to augment certain situations, not a permanent emplacement in every minute of every round.
    • Add jammers (yea, I used to play Tribes 1 & 2). These can be attached to light vehicles (AA HUMVEE anyone?) or even carried by a certain kit, but allow players to deploy a device that prevents the UAV/Sat Scan/Jet radar from detecting all items within its radius (objects can still be sight spotted, though). This adds another role and way to help the team, as well as adding another tactical layer to the battlefield landscape.


    Just my preliminary thoughts - add your own!
  • Adriankat

    #2
    Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

    It'd be pretty cool if the UAV scan was replaced with something where a "spy" gets sent into an area. Then information from 30 seconds ago gets uploaded onto the minimap.

    Comment

    • dBs

      #3
      Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

      If you cant use stealth it means you must use other things in its stead. Ive found one of the most importent keys to this game is to play your range. Using the weapon properly in the range its most suited for and using that to exploit your opponants weakness in range. This can be made better by doing things that limit their movements and lend them to falling into your preffered range.

      Just as importent (at least when teamwork is actually going on) is diversion. Diversion is just as good, sometimes better, than stealth.:evil:

      Comment

      • imported_razor

        #4
        Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

        ya i hate radar (UAV) so unreal even for todays army. I like blackhawk downs radar system if you see it, its like the UAV map but in blue and no red or blue dots. I hate how everyone gets a radar, only squad leader should get it.

        I hate radar in all fps army games.

        Comment

        • HABO3

          #5
          Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

          Originally posted by razor
          I hate how everyone gets a radar, only squad leader should get it.
          try making a squad once that feature is implemented

          Comment

          • WarGimp

            #6
            Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

            I just spent a good deal of time proving ya wrong, Var...

            Just because the commander's got UAV access doesn't mean ya can't go on ninja missions. I was playing on the R2 server, SF night. I engadged almost exclusivly in sneaky, tricky, bastage combat. I knew the enemy's UAV would be busy with where-ever the front lines happend to be, so that's where I didn't go.

            The zip line is a BIG help and gives things a nice authentic "ninja" feeling.
            BTW, I just scored a nice fat 98. All infantry. Devil's Perch. I hate night maps, but I love that one for ninja stunts.

            I do think detection mechanics could have been handled way better, but I don't think being sneaky is a dead issue.

            Comment

            • Versus3k

              #7
              Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

              Is that book like Fighting Fantasy books? God, I used to love those books.

              *Starts to reminisce* Oops sorry I'm off topic as usual...

              Comment

              • Moke

                #8
                Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

                You have some good points Var.... But I dont think Sneakyness is totally lost....

                You just have to quick and decisive.... Get the commander to look at your left hand, while your right one is blowing his stuff

                Comment

                • Demonicfrog

                  #9
                  Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

                  The snipers should be imune to commander scan...

                  Comment

                  • zacman13245

                    #10
                    Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

                    im immune to scans only because im so cool

                    Comment

                    • imported_Rafterman
                      Member
                      • May 2005
                      • 1105

                      #11
                      Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

                      Well since all of those features were hyped from day one, if you didn't want to be bothered with them, why did you buy the game?

                      Comment

                      • Tenshi

                        #12
                        Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

                        i am an action sniper

                        My idea of sniping isnt campling on a hill 500m away.

                        My idea of sniping is hiding 20m from the targets surrounded by enemies and take them out without being found. Its possible and rewarding. So dont say theres no stealth...its just not quite the same.

                        Comment

                        • WarGimp

                          #13
                          Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

                          Hehe... I'm one of those bastage commanders that likes to shell static snipers.

                          I'm always amazed when they don't move. Whenever I hear artillery, I change postion.
                          Kinda like hearing a woman have an orgaizm.

                          Comment

                          • Tenshi

                            #14
                            Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

                            Why is it that MEC and China get crappy russian ex-military hardware...some of which seems to date back to the war...


                            ...but also get satelite scan and UAVs????

                            MEC and China should have different Commander assets...like in Generals.

                            Comment

                            • imported_Rafterman
                              Member
                              • May 2005
                              • 1105

                              #15
                              Re: Core Issues: Matters of Stealth

                              Originally posted by Tenshi
                              Why is it that MEC and China get crappy russian ex-military hardware...some of which seems to date back to the war...


                              ...but also get satelite scan and UAVs????

                              MEC and China should have different Commander assets...like in Generals.

                              Uh, which war would that be?

                              Comment

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