More crow on the menu for GL users...

[Paas]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

I agree, but to make it fair, give the assault more grenades and more ammo.

What's more ammo going to do for Assault when the problem is our rifles are almost moot past ranges of 100m? In comparison though, the G36C and the M4 are all deadly accurate from anywhere on the map. Hell, even the AK-74SU is more accurate than the Ak101 and that just makes NO damn sense.

The concept of taking away the GL is flawed in its own right. You cannot just fix a class by taking away the one thing that makes it that class. Unless, of course, they bump up the accuracy of the "Long" rifles in the game; lower the deviation as well.

{WP}Paas

[imported_Apostle]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

Good points. Maybe the problem is, more often than not, you have no chance to defend yourself against a GL. By the time you know about it, you're dead. Most of the time when taking fire, the red flashes indicate where it's coming from, you at least have a chance to fight back. DICE say everything has it positives and negatives, where is the negatives for the GL? No deviation from my limited use with it, very high damage, seems to be accurate from standing, crouched and prone.

I am just debating, I don't want to stop the assualt guys from having fun, but some players are taking advantage of this weapon and spoiling it for others.

[imported_Killa4live]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

Good points. Maybe the problem is, more often than not, you have no chance to defend yourself against a GL. By the time you know about it, you're dead. Most of the time when taking fire, the red flashes indicate where it's coming from, you at least have a chance to fight back. DICE say everything has it positives and negatives, where is the negatives for the GL? No deviation from my limited use with it, very high damage, seems to be accurate from standing, crouched and prone.

I am just debating, I don't want to stop the assualt guys from having fun, but some players are taking advantage of this weapon and spoiling it for others.

Grenade Launchers (And Grenades)

Should only be used:
-Groups of Infantry
-Vehicles

So a big splash damage would be the best.

-Vehicles die, groups die, if you noobtube you always suicide, and get no pionts, and a -2 at teampionts, so its negative for your score.

[jdrou]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

I have downed 2 attack choppers with my GL. Both times I was no doubt just as shocked at the chopper crew, tho.

I've done several of those; if you can hit them the GL does heavy damage to helos (almost as much as an AT missile). Scared off a BH by starting him smoking on Wake last weekend when he was moving too slow over the Chinese arty.

[WarGimp]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

Ideally, grenade launchers should have a larger blast raidus, better iron sights, and a minimum range.

The implementation was quite poor, there's just no two ways about it.

I'd also like to see frag (larger splash) and HE (more damage to light vehicles) variations, but that's not likely to happen.

[imported_Iridium]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

better iron sights

Or, you know, any iron sights at all. I mean, they were in several videos, if i recall. Why on earth did they remove them? Same goes for the shotguns. Would it have been so hard to put some ironsights together?

[[3SA]D|Sgt.Colinloves]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

if you noobtube you always suicide, and get no pionts, and a -2 at teampionts, so its negative for your score.

PERFECT !!

[Ruhanga]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

This is one reason why Sirlin's article about "Playing to Win" is bullsh1t - designers are fallible and games are not perfect straight out of the box. Some of us recognized that DICE probably didn't mean for every infantry battle to degrade into a GL vs GL fight, and in turn posted to make the issue known to a dev team that didn't appear to realize the problem.

I have to grab this sentence. If you had read his articles, then you must know that he writes how you must learn to play the game to become a top player.

This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.

I do not know why to you say that the article is bullshat. If the game has exploits, then you can be sure that top players are going to abuse and rape them to the maxinum. If Devs can't make something how they wanted, how that is Sirlin's,mine and others who think the same point of views fault. Its game fault if it promotes flat battles with one overpowering weapon and 12 underpowered weapon. Who is truly so STUPID that he handicaps himself by not using GL? He who doesn't use it is disgrace to the gaming community, cause he has no intention to win.

If Devs give us exploits to use, don't come to us and blame we are wrong. Every can use them, so why don't you? "Honor"?
Am I a top player? Not yet. But by every bunnyhop and GL shot I'm higher to the spot of top players.

Peace, love and I hope this wan't too aggressive.:salute:

[Ruhanga]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

Sirlin's articles assume that the game's design is sound - every tactic has a workable counter, even if the counter is hard to find or execute. But the bottom line is that the GL at close range is without counter. It's a one shot kill that require only partial hits to be lethal. The designer's acknowledged this, to the point of patching it - and that's a pretty damning anti-endorsement.

The other problem with his articles is that his theories apply to 1v1 combat where the player is the only one that needs to adjust in order to win. In BF2, dealing with certain tactics must be a team effort, and getting the team to play along (especially on pubs) is an obnoxious prerequisite to defeating a certain tactic.

If it takes a tight-knit clan to beat a certain tactic, fine, but keep that tactic in competitive play. Those of us who play on pubs shouldn't have to deal with it - because often, we can't.

If such a tactic existed in Street Fighter (and was as easy to access as the GL is for all players) he'd be crying like a puppy, or more likely, not even playing.

Yes, GL doesn't have a counter. Or does it? Well what if you use it also? Then 1v1 matches boils to who has better reflex in shooting that GL. That doesn't sound so bad, as reflex is part of "skill" that makes one good. And yes, some of the insights are for fighting games, but some of them, or major of them can be tranferred to other genres.

And if pubs can't handle it, then they should learn? I may sound like a bastard, but why can't people in pubs also try to play to win instead to play to fun? They might find new dimension how to play to fun after it. If you know you have a noobtoober with you in that round, try to take a vehicle. It should work. No vehicles? Take some long-range kit like SpecOp or Sniper.

We can't keep things in competive only. How could we? If some clan player go to pub with GL, how can we avoid that? We can't control it.

[Ruhanga]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

Ideally, grenade launchers should have a larger blast raidus, better iron sights, and a minimum range.

The implementation was quite poor, there's just no two ways about it.

I'd also like to see frag (larger splash) and HE (more damage to light vehicles) variations, but that's not likely to happen.

My varitation would be NO SPLASH, NO IRON. Just high damage. Anti-jeep weapon.

And also I have a massive headache for drinking in secret yesterday, so I don't really know what I have written. And flames ain't got nothung on me, bring it on beeeatch.

[F-1]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

One of the worst games I EVER played was yesterday. I was playing MEC and more than half of the US team were using ONLY the GL. This definitly ruined the game. I would like to see the whole GL removed from the game or at least give it a minimum range of fire.

I also started to think that reducing the damage radius is a better solution that increasing the damage radius. It becomes harder to kill the infantry. Still, adding a minimum range feature is definitly a must!

[xMETNINJAx]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

As much as I hate the bunnyhopping gl users, it does require SOME skill. Several times I've survived their first shot and killed them with relative ease. I'd love to see the gl problem fixed, but at the same time I can't see a solution that wouldn't result in the assault class being rendered entirely useless.

[vbl]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

Yes, GL doesn't have a counter. Or does it? Well what if you use it also? Then 1v1 matches boils to who has better reflex in shooting that GL. That doesn't sound so bad, as reflex is part of "skill" that makes one good. And yes, some of the insights are for fighting games, but some of them, or major of them can be tranferred to other genres.

And if pubs can't handle it, then they should learn? I may sound like a bastard, but why can't people in pubs also try to play to win instead to play to fun? They might find new dimension how to play to fun after it. If you know you have a noobtoober with you in that round, try to take a vehicle. It should work. No vehicles? Take some long-range kit like SpecOp or Sniper.

We can't keep things in competive only. How could we? If some clan player go to pub with GL, how can we avoid that? We can't control it.

A game where the only factor is reaction time is a horrible game.

You kinda missed my point. Yes, you can engage tubers from longer ranges - but sometimes (at certain flags, for example) that's just not practical. So what then? Reflexes - one dimension of gameplay. Ergo, boring and lame.

[Ruhanga]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

A game where the only factor is reaction time is a horrible game.

You kinda missed my point. Yes, you can engage tubers from longer ranges - but sometimes (at certain flags, for example) that's just not practical. So what then? Reflexes - one dimension of gameplay. Ergo, boring and lame.

Then BF2 sucks doesn't it? It promotes lame reflex-based gameplay by GL. If Devs didn't meant it to be like this, why the hell they made it so? Devs don't test the game for bugs and gameplay problems. WE, PLAYERS, do it. Its our responsibility. I agree with you that any game sucks that is one-sided, but in first post you said Sirlin's articles are bullshat...why? Those articles just teach how to become the top player.

[vbl]

Re: More crow on the menu for GL users...

Then BF2 sucks doesn't it? It promotes lame reflex-based gameplay by GL. If Devs didn't meant it to be like this, why the hell they made it so? Devs don't test the game for bugs and gameplay problems. WE, PLAYERS, do it. Its our responsibility. I agree with you that any game sucks that is one-sided, but in first post you said Sirlin's articles are bullshat...why? Those articles just teach how to become the top player.

Sirlin's articles are ******** when applied to more complex, multiplayer games - especially ones that haven't been rigorously playtested. I should have clarified.