To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

[PBJTime]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

You must have misinterpreted my posts because I am not worked up in the slightest.

The GeoMod engine, which I'm aware of through playing the original Red Faction is a step in the right direction in my eyes but it's still a far cry from what would be needed to make an absolute realistic sim. But, that's a whole different topic anyways.

I will also again assert that EA didn't decide to make changes for people who "couldn't adapt," rather for people who didn't want to see rediculous tactics in an otherwise good game. Despite the many arcade style things you have pointed out, there are still valid real life tactics that are used in this game such as flanking maneuvers, suppressive fire, etc. Arcade style games such as Quake are more the type of "arcade" play that I think of when someone mentions arcade. See how well suppressive fire works in a game like that. Bunnyhopping and the like detract from this type of gameplay that was originally intended for this game, as said by EA.

Surely you could agree that the average Joe, such as myself, could read the website and easily assume that this might be a little less arcade and a little more realistic than say, a game such as Doom? I certainly didn't read the official website and think, "This is Quake but with different clothes." I simply read about modern combat and saw key words like "realistic physics," and thought that I would have a game without people bouncing around and dolphin diving 5 feet in the air.

In the end, how is it honestly going to hurt you or anyone else to not be able to dolphin dive? Is it really that important of a tactic that it will take away the fun in your gameplay? I would surely hope not. If these few tactics are what you play the game for, then I think it may be time to move on after the patch. With all of these debates raging, I don't think many stopped to think that, "Hey, this really isn't a problem." Especially for the folks that "adapt so well." I cannot think of one valid reason why these changes to bunnyhopping/dolphin diving would detract from the fun or gameplay for anyone. I think some people just argue to argue (not necessarily you, just some in general.) It's easy to see how it could make things more fun for many other people though.

Despite how any of this may sound, none of it was meant as any sort of personal attack on you or anything. I simply direct this at you since you are the one debating and for simplicity. Thoughtful debates are always good.

[raekworn]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

[quote=||ass||variable]Bad analogy. American football rules have changed pretty frequently over the past 100+ years. Learn before you post
quote]

i would take that as football (soccer for some of you) not american football. still football ahem soccer rules have changed some as well. one more question off topic. why do you call it football when its primarily played with hands, when english football ahem soccer it played primarily using feet?

sorry to go off track.

i like alot of the changes but think its making the game easier, i played starwars galaxies for a couple of years now and the devs there caves in to people who whinge about the game all the time now that game is the biggest pile of crap (i refuse to watch the films as i hated that much). my point being they cant change everything someone doesnt like as you cant please everyone. i dont bunny hop and personally hate people who do it, i get even by keeping my eye out for them and if i see them they go down first.

[IVfluids]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

I manage to live through all the changes in the game, BunnyHopping and Dolphin Diving is something that I really don't do, I don't spend much time on foot. But I just never percieved it as a problem that I couldn't take care of by changing my own tactics, different weapon kits for different problems. I don't expect to see anything too realistic in any video game, with the exception of America's Army, which is not up my alley.

Only reason I say people can't adapt, is from the amount of replies and threads that have people saying 'i am sick of it, every corner I round I get lit by some bunnyhoping/noobtubin/doplhindivin/c4jumptossin ***', that reply is all too common and shows that people are having a hard time adapting. Is it realistic? No. Is anything in this game realistic? 95% no.

Either way, I'll adapt to the changes, and so will the rest of the guys that have been doing the things that are being stopped. More than likely, they will find new ways to do things, that in the end, will probably **** more people off. The people that couldn't adapt before, will still be mired in the same old tactics and the same view that says 'people must play a certain way'.

I haven't taken it as a personal attack either, just as I am not personally attacking you either. I haven't seen any bs names tossed at each other, so that says enough right there.

[PBJTime]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

"But I just never percieved it as a problem that I couldn't take care of by changing my own tactics, different weapon kits for different problems."

Agreed. I also change my tactics to adapt. The thing is, I don't think I should have to change kits, etc. just to combat someone who is using these tactics. Change to an AT to take out armor? Yes. Change kits to combat a bunnyhopper/noob tube/dolphin diver? No.

"Only reason I say people can't adapt, is from the amount of replies and threads that have people saying 'i am sick of it, every corner I round I get lit by some bunnyhoping/noobtubin/doplhindivin/c4jumptossin ***"

Fair enough. I'll give you this as I can see how you could reasonably come to this conclusion. Since one would never be able to prove whether the majority of the people are complaining because they can't adapt or won't adapt, I'll just leave it as a difference of opinion.

"More than likely, they will find new ways to do things, that in the end, will probably **** more people off."

Perhaps, but I really can't think of anything else that would bother me enough to warrant wanting a change...even the bad AA I can deal with. You'd be amazed at what a coordinated effort can do with multiple AA sites.

"Is it realistic? No. Is anything in this game realistic? 95% no."

This question is kind of off because you could apply it to any game. For example, no game actually simulates dying. Being that dying is a real part of life, one could argue that it is just simply not close to reality so it should not be called "realistic " I realize that is a bit extreme but I think it illustrates my point. No game could simulate reality in the way that is believed us "realism" nuts want. I say that because it seems that some people think we want a simulator. But, I think I speak for the majority when I say we want a realistic feel and are obviously willing to compromise on many things for gameplay's sake. Does it have a realistic "feel" to it? Well, I guess that depends on where you play. I'm not sure if you've ever tried to play on Tactical Gamer but those games can be quite intense and the tactics used are as good as it gets considering this is a game. I've used tactics in there that I've used in real life and they work (or don't, depending on how well your squad works together.) All I'm saying is despite it's arcade qualities, this game can have a realistic feel to it when playing with the right folks but it is ruined with these "alternative" tactics.

Cheers

[IVfluids]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

I guess I am just too used to league/ladder play. If you don't progress your style of play, you get burnt badly in that kind of play. I've been competing in online ladders and junk for probably the better part of 7-8 years (Clanbase, NATO, CAL etc), so I guess that kind of thinking is just part of the nature for video games to me and others.

Do not take this as sarcasm, but if you want something that is a bit more close to home on a realistic effort and game play, check out the 21CW mod, seriously, no assing intended.

[seville]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

The chopper issue is more on levels like Sharqui though. Choppers weaknesses are usually jets and such, which there is none in that level. It pretty much leaves a decent pilot to consistently rape the opposing team over and over and over again, the only thing having to worry about are the couple AA's in the whole level, and the occasional handrocket that might come at him, but will most likely miss anyways. Now, infantry has a much better edge on them and won't have to go through whole matches being constantly raped by choppers.

But, those black hawk guns are pretty ridiculous. Agreed that they should have finite ammo.

I don't know about upping the accuracy on support guns either. What's wrong with them now? They're supposed to be inaccurate, that's why they're mega powerful. And they aren't really that inaccurate, you just have to be in a decent range to kill anyone, in usually 1-3 hits.

And agreed on taking shooting and jumping out not being the resolve for bunny hopping. There's been quite a few times where say, someone's on a ledge higher than me and I might pop up and shoot a few rounds into him. What they should do is only let you jump maybe two times in one stamina bar, and after that you actually have to wait to jump again. Because now your bar can be totally depleted, yet you can always jump, which is totally lame. So, not only is this not a good fix to the problem, people will still be able to bunny hop away avoiding fire from others, just not return fire. And most of the time, that's what people are doing anyways.

I used an M60 in the US Army. With short bursts they were fairly accurate to 100 yards, with a max effective range of about 500 yards.
At 100 yards, rounds would penetrate 12 inches of solid oak.
I think the support guns should be a tad more accurate single/short burts, and alot more accurate in continuous fire. Continous fire should be inaccurate and spray widely, but damn, it shouldnt hit things behind you :)

Seville

[Roger Smith]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

i have one question and one gripe. here is the gripe:
- TV-Guided missile now have a shorter range
this is lame because the purpose of the weapon is supposed to be long range tv guide missile sniper. i think cutting off the controllable range is fine, but the missile should still keep going untill it hits the ground or goes off in the distance.

here is my question:
- AA missile lock has been improved
does this mean that i can actually use aa without getting teamkills? what i mean to say is, does it just make the missile more likely to sustain a lock or does it actually reduce the chance of teamdamage. i wouldnt really have a problem with the teamdamage thing but the aa missiles dont just go after teammates jets that are in the same direction as the enemy jets, but they freaking change direction to do it!


other than those two things a wholeheartidly agree with everything one the list of changes.

[eeeahn]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

It's funny me and my friend had an arguement about this last week. He insisted if BH'in and DD'in were so cheap and cheating then EA wouldnt have let you do that in the game.
And along comes a patch putting a stop to it. You can't even know how much I rubbed it in his face. He tried to argue that EA is just trying to makre the game easier for NooBs cuz it takes a lot of skill to jump, shoot and kill people like he does.

Way to go EA! Although it would be nice to see a second or two delay between jumps to prevent the annoying defensive BH'ers.

I say just learn how to play the damn game correctly and how it was meant to be played!

[MrChris_CJ]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

lol what is prone spamming??

[vbl]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

lol what is prone spamming??

Just what it sounds like. If someone told you to "spam prone over and over", what would you do? Yea - that's prone spamming.

[Verzili]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

increased acuracy on the sniper kit primary weapon ,mmmmmmmmm i like the sound of that then maybe get a few more chopper pilots down.
and get the eluzive 35 kills in one round .glad bunny hopings gone after all its not break dancing were after,defend your self with you weapon not youre catiplilar,bellyfloping style "dont kill me i can boucnh on my guts like the ground is made of spring"

[Stryker]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

I only have one problem, as much as I hate Aircraft noobs, or helo whores I don't want them to die altogether. Battlefield 2 is a lot about the Vehicles, so it would be said if you saw these jets and helo's just there not being used because you would just get owned. Don't get me wrong I played BF Vietnam and the helos are really big whoring objects. I say make them weaker, but not to weak to kill them away. Know what im saying?

addon/ Also bunny hopping isn't the best Defense, the best defense is a strong Offence, so instead of running, pull your gun out, aim down the sight, and kill kill kill. Unless it's a tank, then run!

Addon2/ Good job EA, but now how about updating the punkbuster so the hackers that can clearly see me on the map as an enemy go away.

[Brindled]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

ya, anybody heard anything about some pb updates?

[Trademark -DA-]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

Well, I have almost 600 hours on this freaking game and the one thing I have noticed that just wont go away is........noobs.

Noobs are the people that find a way to do something really unrealistic or irrational and it ALWAYS will **** you off and make you frustrated, angry, and drive you into slandering him through chat in-game.

The other thing that I have noticed is that I have learned to beat most bunny hopping, nub tubing, prone pouncing, C4 lobbing, wanna-be skilled players. Here is how:

1)Dont play on servers where they promote it.
2)Learn to aim twice as good as you aim now.
3)Stop going into head-to-head battle (duh flank them!).
4)Tweak your system or buy a new one altogether.
5)JUST PLAY SMARTER!

If none of the above works then your not good enough yet...keep practicing. If you do, when the next patch comes out, your going to own all those folks that never learned to be skilled....BUT....your going to have to still deal with NOOBS exploiting NEW CHEAP TACTICS. NOOBS will TK you and they will TK PUNISH you. NOOBS will always be there...just to **** you off. My worst enemy is not the other guy with the other colored name tag...its the guy standing next to me that I don't know. I try to make sure my clannies are on my left, my right, my rear, and I try to make sure my squad is far from the rest of the team...doing the real work...winning.

[Fluder_kid]

Re: To all of you bunny hoppers, dolphin divers, and apologists...

what is Prone Spamming and Sprint exploit?