Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

[gunner.b0b]

Hrmmm ive recently played the patch on 5 different ranked servers, and witnessed no less than 12 tks for SF weapons :S ..., let the games begin!
sorry i dont have screenies youll just have to take my word for it. I can see this becomeing a major problem in the enjoyment of the game for those who own BF2:SF and playing with other (non SF) chappies.

Ty EA lol this is gonna be fun :|:

[Greasy_Mullet]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

No joke dude. What a huge mistake... a little common sense CAN go a long way but was obviously thrown out the window in this case...

[Spookie]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

Pick a better server?

I doubt they can all be like that with an admin enforcing some rules.

[Grey Fox]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

Man thats horrible. Why in godsname are people such dicks.

[artnez.com]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

I was laughing my ass off when I heard they did this (allow BF:SF players to use their weapons in standard BF2 servers).

It's so stupid, especially when you're talking about global ranking systems.

If you buy SF, you have the chance of getting a better score with better weapons. Maybe that's not true and you might suck with the new weapons... but you'll never know until you use them enough. Obviously, you can't do that by stealing kits.

So, EA has effectively told their customers that they have to "deal with it", unless they are ready to pay up. It's like rubbing it in your face until you buy it...

It's a cheap strategy and it only shows that EA is starting to get its ass kicked in the sales department. They need money bad... and they are willing to kill a franchise with a huge community following to do it.

I'm not buying SF, for exactly these reasons.

Anyone who says that EA & DICE actually THOUGHT through the features they were going to put into this game, is obviously blind as a bat.

It is so apparent taht EA & DICE had a huge battle between the money hungry people that care about deadlines and sales, and the creative people who cared about making the game great (mercenary DC devs perhaps?)..

This happens alot with projects.

On one side, you have a group of people who want to make everything as high quality as possible. They love field. They love the customers. Their only problem is, they are waaaay too enthusiastic as to what the game could be in the time limit they are given. So, these guys (commonly the programmers), start giving approximate dates of completion for all their cool new features. Unfortunately, these dates are way off because they didn't take into account human error, unforseeable balance issues, etc. The amount of time in reality is MUCH longer than expected.

Then, on the other side, you have the EA corporate junkies and possibly some fools from DICE's $$$$ department. All they care about is marketing the game properly, making the box look nice and getting the damn thing in the stores and off the shelves as quickly as possible.

So, as soon as the over-enthusiastic developers start trudging in their work because they want to implement all of the features that they promised, the corporate suits start pushing for a release. They don't care how the game turns out. To them, it's just a stupid video game. So, when the developers honestly say "we need more time to implement all of these features", the corp. suits say "no dice (get it?), we are going to meet the expected deadline or atleast very close to it. if you have to cut features, cut them. we dont care as long as the game gets released in a state that it works".

So, these two sides bicker for a while. Eventually, the developers get tired of the crap and throw in the towl. And lets not forget, the corp. suits are paying for the dev's rent.. so the devs know when to shut up. At this point, the devs agree to cut out certain features to meet the deadline. They start finishing the game not according to plan (very bad for programming, because this means many overlooked bugs and big hits on performance because there are placeholders for features that simply weren't implemented). They do get an extension and the corp. suits get their marketing people to buy some time.

Think about it people... do you remember how sh itty the server browser was when the game was released? How about all the crazy bugs? If such basic features are screwed up, imagine how much the system is screwed up internally.

And lastly, I'll say that BF2 messed up in another way. They tried to take FPS from the BF franchise and link it together with large stat systems and the like. This is a bad idea for many reasons.. but the main one is that many parts of the application are linked to the server. There are WAY too many dependancies going on at once for the game to run smoothly on many machines.

Why do you think "Verifying Client Data..." usually takes a while? Do you think it's just checking local files? It's obviously not, as that would take a couple seconds at most. It's evident that you are connected to a server "router" that starts scanning for available servers (takes time) and picks a server (takes time) queries that server (takes time) waits for response (time) parses response (time) and checks response (time). And alot of little operations in between.

Whatever the case is, the concept of one application retrieving data from another always ends up being the same thing:

- Connect to server.
- Send a request.
- Get a response.
- Parse the response.
- Check the response.
- Display the response.

BF2 does these processes constantly with all of the different "features". So imagine that all of the freaking members online are constantly clogging up the servers with requests.

Maybe that's why EA charges so much for a crappy expansion?

So that goes back to where I started.

EA is losing money because the cost of maintaining those servers is definitely not as projected, not to mention they had to move from Gamespy as I recall (because gamespy has **** programmers, as most of these companies do).

So they drop the pay or the amount of people working -- which causes a ****ty expansion with very little content.

Then they crank up the price on it and pay some guy a few hundred bucks to make some cool flash movies and images.

And bam, you have yourself a full blown expansion which will help EA actually get close to it's projected profit for this game.

/rant

As always, i'll say that i can be totally off base and i'm purely speculating. But from what I've seen, I truly believe this is the case. And this is why you shouldn't buy SF and laugh at anyone that does and has issues.

[DeathFromAbove]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

I aint buying it well maybe lol because it seems like EA is forcing us to buy.

[rtgbs7k]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

30USD - thats like... 2-3 Long Island Ice Tea. So what? I'll drink three LIIT and then play SF:)

[a1pointguard]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

Sure it isn't that expensive... but I won't buy it because it would be a waste of money. I can barely play BF2 as it is now. :laugh:

[DeathFromAbove]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

Money ain't the issue but buying the SF expansion would be like paying for sex.Why would you want a whore (expansion) and pay for her when you could get a hoe( mods) for free :)

[flanig407]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

It's a joke that they allowed the SF weapons on vanilla BF2 servers. Wow, what were they thinking. At the very least they could've allowed those with unlocks be able to choose between the vanilla unlocks and SF unlocks. What a freakin joke.

[Keith Maniac]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

If you buy SF, you have the chance of getting a better score with better weapons. Maybe that's not true and you might suck with the new weapons... but you'll never know until you use them enough. Obviously, you can't do that by stealing kits.

I (=no SF) just killed a F2000 guy with my regular AT outfit. I had no problem taking him out even if he had SF. Maybe you are just afraid of them or their new toys?

So, EA has effectively told their customers that they have to "deal with it", unless they are ready to pay up. It's like rubbing it in your face until you buy it...

So the way you "deal with it" is surrendering to anyone with SF weapons since they're so good that you have no chance against them? Nobody is rubbing anything at your face (I hope)...

It's a cheap strategy and it only shows that EA is starting to get its ass kicked in the sales department. They need money bad... and they are willing to kill a franchise with a huge community following to do it.

As I understand, BF2 sold pretty damn well. Especially considering that it's a PC game. Every succesfull FPS has had its AddOns released. Especially the ones that sold well (MoHaa, CoD, HL, Doom3 etc.).

I'm not buying SF, for exactly these reasons.

Thanks for the info!

It is so apparent taht EA & DICE had a huge battle between the money hungry people that care about deadlines and sales, and the creative people who cared about making the game great (mercenary DC devs perhaps?)..

How is that apparent, that there was a huge battle? Also keep in mind, that DC devs had a lot more support than any other mod team out there. I mean they got hired by DICE/EA, unlike all the other mod-devteams.

This happens alot with projects.

This happends most likely with 90% of all gamedevelopment project these days. Almost EVERY company has to make compromises on what features to include in the game and when to release it.

Maybe that's why EA charges so much for a crappy expansion?

30€/$ isn't that much.

EA is losing money because the cost of maintaining those servers is definitely not as projected, not to mention they had to move from Gamespy as I recall (because gamespy has **** programmers, as most of these companies do).

How do you know they are loosing money? The less BF2 (or any game) has to do with Gayspy, the better it is for the players..

So they drop the pay or the amount of people working -- which causes a ****ty expansion with very little content.

How do you know that SF is ****ty? Especially since you haven't even played it yet? Oh sorry I forgot.. THEY'RE RUBBING IT IN YOUR FACE and forcing you to buy it!!!!!11

Then they crank up the price on it and pay some guy a few hundred bucks to make some cool flash movies and images.

And bam, you have yourself a full blown expansion which will help EA actually get close to it's projected profit for this game.

Isn't 30€/$ pretty normal price for an addon? How do you know about the amount of profit/loss that BF2 has brought to EA?

As always, i'll say that i can be totally off base and i'm purely speculating.

No actually you're more like paranoid (no offence). :)

[Keith Maniac]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

Money ain't the issue but buying the SF expansion would be like paying for sex.Why would you want a whore (expansion) and pay for her when you could get a hoe( mods) for free :)

Quality over quantity with the €/$/£ whore :). And no syphilis.

[Saureco]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

EA is still making money. They have the Sims series, EA sports, and they're still buying up the little development studios to squash the competition. As one forum member mentioned before, the industry will take a major hit and then make a revival or reform. The hit may come in the form of a horrid price war, some insane ruling by the government about violence in video games, or perhaps a surprise shutout from the console industry. The Xbox 360 just released and sales are mind boggling. Nintendo is working on their next-gen console. The PS3 is just around the corner.

The PC industry, however, is experiencing the same cutthroat, underhanded business tactics that are prevalent in any other industry--electronics, consumer sales, auto sales, even coffee shops. The sad part is that the consumer base is simply too stupid to understand when they're being duped. The statement "quality over quantity" has simply become cliche; some people don't really know what that means any more. The best example I can think of is buying one BMW will outdo any number of Honda Civics (unmodified), one good beer will be more satisfying than a whole case of crap beer, and one really good PC game is better than an unfinished game with a most likely unfinished expansion.

So don't worry. This is financial Darwinism in its finest. People will slowly get pulled into a rut of buying "the next best thing", purchasing new games simply because they're new. Their money will diminish, barring them from purchasing the really high quality games that developers are allowed to complete on their schedule. Marketing and sales are indeed a part of business, but as BMW, Sony, and Valve have learned, selling a quality product will make you more in money than just in sales. It's called word-of-mouth advertising. Telling a person you like a product in person is more convincing than any billboard or magazine ad. I have shown friends and even coworkers of Half Life 2, and some of them would even consider buying a new PC just to play it. "What about Battlefield 2?" Sorry, I wouldn't recommend it to a friend if I might be giving it up in the near future.

I'm not worried. EA can go about their usual routines all they want. It's become a corporate culture for them. What they don't realize, however, is that they'll eventually take the same route as General Motors, Delta Airlines, and any gaming company that shipped an incomplete, yet overpriced product. Their market shares will dwindle, customers will flock to the competition, and EA will have to liquidate assets to make a recovery. Eventually, a reform will occur in their management structure, maybe even a new CEO or CFO, and perhaps then they will learn that giving the customer more than what he wants will make you money and something else--loyalty.

[artnez.com]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

I (=no SF) just killed a F2000 guy with my regular AT outfit. I had no problem taking him out even if he had SF. Maybe you are just afraid of them or their new toys?

No, I'm not 'afraid'. It's a video game for christs sake.

The point I was trying to make is that they are giving people an advantage that paid more money. When I was a young kid and played video games, $30 was alot for me and my parents weren't willing to shell out the cash every time I wanted something. It's unfair for people that can't make room to spend the $30, for whatever reason.

It's one thing to say 'you get what you pay for', but it's another to give people that pay more money the advantage on the servers.

The only reason it's an advantage is because they have more selection... that is an instant advantage. They also have new tools like the flashbang & the grappling hook. That is also an advantage.

I can easily shell out those $30, but like I said, I don't waste my money on useless ****. Life has taught me this over the many years.

So the way you "deal with it" is surrendering to anyone with SF weapons since they're so good that you have no chance against them? Nobody is rubbing anything at your face (I hope)...

I don't understand what you mean by surrendering. I don't really get what you're trying to say here.

As I understand, BF2 sold pretty damn well. Especially considering that it's a PC game. Every succesfull FPS has had its AddOns released. Especially the ones that sold well (MoHaa, CoD, HL, Doom3 etc.).

The primary difference here is that they have centralized servers. This is a big deal. A very big deal.

Thanks for the info!

You're welcome. If that was sarcasm, may I remind you this is a message forum. People post their opinions and thoughts. You do, and I do.

How is that apparent, that there was a huge battle? Also keep in mind, that DC devs had a lot more support than any other mod team out there. I mean they got hired by DICE/EA, unlike all the other mod-devteams.

It is apparent because you can browse through the BF2 game files and find a ton of content that simply never made. This includes sound files of radio messages, soldier voices, etc.

There is a mass amount of content that didn't make it into the game. There were many promises that were made... which were never implemented. The original website had one description, while the game box had another, and the info released to the public was something else. By the end, EA quickly patched this information up. I am not going to go over these features again, do a forum search.

It's also evident because EA & DICE made many promises as to what they were planning to do with the game (managing your clan using BF2HQ, stuff like that). In fact, if you look through the BF2 files, you will notice there is a flash menu of what the original BF2 menu was supposed to be. You can do so much more with that.

The fact that these promises were made public, means that they were cleared by BF2's PR department. Which also means that alot of people knew what was being said. Which also means, at the time, they really thought this was going to get done.

This happends most likely with 90% of all gamedevelopment project these days. Almost EVERY company has to make compromises on what features to include in the game and when to release it.

What you are stating is not what I was stating. I was saying that EA/DICE made many false promises. Most game dev projects do cut features, but they do not cut the features that they are publicizing.

30€/$ isn't that much.

To you it isn't. To me it isn't. To some it, it is. If they're getting ripped off for those $30, it isn't fair.

I'm perfectly fine with playing BF2 just the way it is and wait for the mods. I dont need that b.s. content they are introducing. What ****es me off is that I have to deal with this content, whether I purchased the exp. pack or not. Further, I can't use this content that I have to deal with unless I steal it from kits.

How do you know they are loosing money? The less BF2 (or any game) has to do with Gayspy, the better it is for the players..

They initially started out with Gamespy. Obviously, the plan was to stay with them for a long time. The contract was cut and new one had to be made with another company. This is a loss of money.. big money.

Either way, I never said that I know this information. I clearly stated that what I was saying was pure speculation.

Learn to read.

How do you know that SF is ****ty? Especially since you haven't even played it yet? Oh sorry I forgot.. THEY'RE RUBBING IT IN YOUR FACE and forcing you to buy it!!!!!11

There is nothing to know about SF. New maps + new weapons + new vehicles. Nothing different. This is not worth money, as modders are developing this same stuff for free (at most likely, at a better quality and more variety).

Isn't 30€/$ pretty normal price for an addon? How do you know about the amount of profit/loss that BF2 has brought to EA?

Like I said, I don't know, it was speculation. Read above.

$30 is actually not the normal price for an addon. Addons usually run from $15-$20. Some are $30, but those that are have alot of content.

The amount of maps, vehicles and weapons added is not worth $30.

No actually you're more like paranoid (no offence). :)

None taken. I understand your philosaphy.. just chill and play. I agree with this. But gaming is a hobby of mine and I spend a considerable amount of time doing it. Since I care about my time, I care about what I do with it. If EA starts screwing people like they are, it's bad for everyone... not just me.

[imported_Mutrino]

Re: Let the TK's begin! bf2/sf and weapons

It's a joke that they allowed the SF weapons on vanilla BF2 servers. Wow, what were they thinking. At the very least they could've allowed those with unlocks be able to choose between the vanilla unlocks and SF unlocks. What a freakin joke.

Why? It is not like the SF weapons are *that* much better. The engineer SF unlock for one sucks.