Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

[=HPSF=Dr.Doom]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

Well, in my opinion FF on is good for a few reasons

a) The reason you mentioned, GRENADE SPAMMING.

In 1942, I played on a FF off server a lot and the BEST way to take a base was to throw grenades into the base as you ran, then just drop them at your feet as you were in flag range incase someone spawned.

This could also be done with C4. Speaking of C4, throwing C4 and Jihad Jeeping EVERY vehicle would become totally rampant with no FF. As happened with 1942. Also people would be able to put mines everywhere without any strat, and if people don't like the GL now imagine with no FF .

This is the main reason FF is on, it prevents people from doing things that give them an EXTREME advantage to take flags or kill enemies with no consequence to their own life. It makes the game really really frustrating.

b) Atmosphere, this is more of a preference but having things have some realism makes people feel like they are fighting a real war. I mean one can argue that this game isn't realistic as far as the deadlyness of weapons, but that is a balance issue. This is about "feeling" like you are fighting a real war. I creating a realistic atmosphere is very important to immersion

I play on servers with TK punish off. I am as careful as I can be, but accidents happen sometimes without my control. I have no problem taking -2 points for something I did, but I don't need some asshat who has no idea of my intention punishing me because they think they are leet.

[CS-Evolution]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

I've been playing FPS games with FF-on for so long, I can't even remember what its like to have it off. I really can't understand the original complaint. It's not a problem with the game or the FF setting, its a problem with people.

[MMad]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

If you are getting kicked because of TKs, you need to look at what YOU are doing WRONG.

Right on. I've been kicked for TKs now and then, but it's always been justified. Either I've been bombing excessively and not paying attention, or I've done something totally stupid like accidentally shooting down a fully loaded enemy BH. I know I've done that at least once, due to air-to-air missiles prefering to hit friendlies.. :)

[tk471138]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

if ff was off you would do what i would see in cs with ff off. they would just aim to where the head is and first thing any thing that moves you would shoot, no thought process now you have to identify and then aim at the approiate enmies, it would be even more of a noob fest i would imagine

[vbl]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

I laughed hard at that, great start to my morning. :laugh:

This just sounds dirty...

"noob-spraying everything that twitches"

[« R²» HKS]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

Whilst we have ff on and tkpunish on we do frown upon tkpunishing for an accident or your own stupidity. FF does really need to be on otherwise it leads to more problems like people C4 jumping on top of buildings that you can't normally get on. Imagine people nade launching like crazy with team mates amongst the enemy.

We try and re-educate people on our server to using the page up key instead of auto page down. You may be suprised to find that if its a genuine accident or its their own fault, that an apology will be expressed along with the person who got tk'ed pressing page up and forgiving. If people don't they are shown the door and they can play elsewhere as those type of auto punishers aren't welcome on our server.

Our tk setting is set to 5, if you still managed to get banned simply visit www.r2clan.com and request to be unbanned, problem solved!

For more info check out this thread which recommends our ranked server.

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41098

Cheers

[-=ACE=-]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

tenshi made a good post, but i personaly have been kicked for TK'ing at least 5 times now. 2 times when bombing in a jet, totally my fault. but sometimes on karkand or so, i throw a nade in, and you can see 2 team mates run after it. is that ****ing my mistake? or playing sniper, placing claymores. teammates can see the red thing on the right and the red skull in the place where the claymore is, is it so hard to miss that?
ive never been friendly killed by a claymore or AT mine. just because I LOOK where im going. next to that, i like to fly the jets, and i really hate the noobs that go in front of you so you kill them. my reaction to the TK and punish is a kickvote and say to everyone WHY i started the vote. had 5 succesfull kicks that way. next to that you have the stingers that like to hit friendlys better tha foes. if i see an enemy jet chasing a friendly one, i try to take the enemy out, but what usually happens, the friendly gets shot down. and a punish. i really am getting to feel a bit two sided about the people playing the game. is it so hard to play normal?

[Moke]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

People who hate Friendly Fire frighten me. :hmm:

Yes... what the dog said

[imported_RingMasTeR]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

I've been playing FPS games with FF-on for so long, I can't even remember what its like to have it off. I really can't understand the original complaint. It's not a problem with the game or the FF setting, its a problem with people.

I think the last FPS game I played with FF off was TFC when I first started playing and it was a stand alone game. Of course that's because at first I was horrible with nades, and let them loose all the time in my own teams spawn... which in the old days, would wipe out everyone in the spawn room. Thrills-a-minute I tell you! So I stayed in non ff servers until I could keep my nades to myself... or to the nme.

[Folgrin]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

Im not saying turn ff off completly. Im saying it would be nice if it was tweaked a little bit. I dont know what servers you guys are playing on, but every time I tk ppl no matter what I get instantly punished. I mean lets face it, it makes you angry when your charging an enemy and you get shot in the back from your teamate. So I think ppl are just a mad and get a sence of vengence from it lol. FF is good. You guys are right. It would seem kinda pointless with out it. But Im just tired of getting booted from servers by noobs that punish. Like last night for example, this guy was running towards an jet in a enemy base likewise so was the enemy. I flew over killing 4 enemys but sadly I took out a friendly. He punshed me ofcourse. Maybe I deserved it. Its hard to control where the bomb lands sometimes. I check the radar usally before I drop. But this guy was in the middle of a swarm of red dots thanks to the uav. I figured 1 death for 4 kills was worth it. But whatever. Im just saying it sucks getting booted from a server when your having fun. All im saying. Its not like im planting c4 of the aircraft carrier and killing everyone I see or something.

[puglous]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

So I have sorta 2 ideas how we can improve the game play. First. Redisign the tk system. Instead of booting a player for the total amount of tks during your time on that server. It should be something like if you kill more then 2 or 3 teamates in a 5 minute period you should be booted. Because quite frankly you can tell that player is just ruining everyone else's time. As for bombing from planes and acidently taking out 3 teamates right there, I dont really have an answer for that one lol. But anways I think that would help a lot.
Secondly I really really think that friendly fire damage needs to be severly reduced. For example in counter strike the damage you do to enemies is not even close to the damage done to teamates. Its takes like 3x the amount of shots to kill a teamate then it does to kill an enemy. So right there that would solve a lot of problems. Like people shooting you in the head with a sniper rifle to steal your jet or chopper. This is a great game. Ive been waiting for a modern day warfare game of this caliber for a long time. I just hate to see little things like bad teamates ruin the gameplay for everyone.

Im not even going to think about the expansion pack until something is done.
Your thoughts?

First off, I think the time idea would be a bad one. Why? Because the most despicable forms of teamkilling are those such as tking for a vehicle. If you tk for that vehicle, you're going to have it for a while, and not "need" to tk anyone for awhile too.
Second, I'm really getting sick of the "this game isn't based on realism." If this game really had no regard for realism why did EA code in things like 1)gravity 2)real factions 3)guns that shoot bullets instead of vegetables etc.
Third, what about mines? It sucks when someone runs them over and punishes, but what if they could just walk right over them and I'm guessing dedonate them in the process without getting hurt? Yeah, now they can throw grenades at them, but atleast they need to waste some ammo.

[Highland-Fury]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

Lo not been playing Bf2 long(first post) but ,would it not be better to take the punnish away form the victim or at least that the punishment has to be comfirmed with the commander or squad leader as it also affects there overall squad score this would be simple to implement and would stop idiots repeat offending... what ya think?

[Warbird_7]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

...would it not be better to take the punnish away form the victim or at least that the punishment has to be comfirmed with the commander or squad leader as it also affects there overall squad score this would be simple to implement and would stop idiots repeat offending...

An excellent idea. However, in my humble opinion, this would place commanders in a position where they would be arbitrating TK disputes for nearly the entire game. I'm no shrink, but I think that the average commander wants to spend his time callin' in the arty and leading his team to victory rather than mediating disputes between team members. Though the idea suggested is good.

It seems, after reviewing the previous posts, that the points for keeping friendly fire are:
(1) It promotes skill and discourages n00bish "spray-and-pray"
(2) It adds to the "realism"

Whereas points against friendly fire are:
(1) Accidents unjustly being punished (resulting in bans)
(2) [Keeping friendly fire] give n00bs the ability to kill you if you take "their" vehicle

Hmm. A tough situation. Here are my thoughts.

-Friendly fire should be kept. FPS, by their nature, are SKILL based games. Holding down the left mouse button and waving it wildly around the screen is not SKILL. People who do not want to take the time and effort to learn to play the game correctly should play something where skill is not an issue...like World of Warcraft *dodges sharp objects being thrown by Blizzard zealots*.
-Accidents happen because of two primary reasons: (1) players place dangerous objects in places where friendlies tend to travel or might travel, or (2) players fail to pay close attention to where they are moving. While I suspect a great majority of accidents happen because of the second category, it is hard to justify not being responsible for a TK that resulted from you placing a claymore IN YOUR OWN BASE. There needs to be some sort of balance. Snipers and engineers: don't go placing your claymores or mines where there is a good possibility that your friends will run into them. That's just inconsiderate. Everyone else: EA and DICE put those little skull and crossbones on your HUD for a reason. For the love of all that is good and holy PAY ATTENTION TO THEM.
-Finally, use common sense. If you know you made a mistake (which you usually do) acknowledge it and forgive the TK. It just isn't fair to the person whose trap you bludered into. Everyone makes mistakes, we can all show patience and forgiveness. If you are the one who cause the TK, swallow your pride and apologize even if it clearly wasn't your fault. Chances are that they will forgive you on this account.

[Guidon666]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

What is the use of friendly fire? Realism? Ha, I seriously hope thats not the answer. If this game was based of realism then one shot with a pistol would kill an enemy.

Wow... glad you are not the deciding factor on what would really kill a person or not. As having 'earned' (for lack of better term) a Purple heart in Iraq... I would take that over the instant death you talk about.

Now im sure most of you seasoned players out there know how rediculous the tk punishing can get. From teamates walking over mines and claymores, to ppl running infront of your jet. It just seriously ****'s me off that when I finally find a server worth playing in I know I wont be there long. Because sooner or later the server automaticly boots your arse for tk's. Now this is just rediculous to me. I mean im human, im not perfect I do make mistakes. I do kill teammates from time to time. Everyone does.

Yeah, the punish system sucks.... all I can offer is while you are right in everyone makes mistakes.... not everyone makes enough to get booted.

So I have sorta 2 ideas how we can improve the game play. First. Redisign the tk system. Instead of booting a player for the total amount of tks during your time on that server. It should be something like if you kill more then 2 or 3 teamates in a 5 minute period you should be booted.

This idea has merit but would have to be rethought/designed around some moron running over a mine with a full vehicle... 3-5 TK's in 1 second.

Secondly I really really think that friendly fire damage needs to be severly reduced. For example in counter strike the damage you do to enemies is not even close to the damage done to teamates.

I dont like this... a bullet is a bullet is a bullet. Equal damage regardless. That and I dont like counterstrike and the often desire of people who want to turn this into counterstrike.

Your thoughts?

Listed above. It's a tricky subject... by eliminating the tk punish system or tk all together you encourage people killing you for the plane/helicopter/vehicle etc. I could offer a simple... quit getting so many TKs that you get booted... I play the game and havent been booted for numerous TKs. but our playing styles are different and I think in your and my case it stems from me not playing counterstrike.

I hate the punish for other people stupidity (hitting mines) but then you have morons that drop all their mines in stupid places (ie: around your own vehicles)

Only thing I can really offer is: Suck it up.

[Folgrin]

Re: Whats the use of Friendly Fire? Something needs to be done! Please Read!!!

my reaction to the TK and punish is a kickvote and say to everyone WHY i started the vote. had 5 succesfull kicks that way.

I like that idea, how do you start a kick vote? whats the command?

Lo not been playing Bf2 long(first post) but ,would it not be better to take the punnish away form the victim or at least that the punishment has to be comfirmed with the commander or squad leader as it also affects there overall squad score this would be simple to implement and would stop idiots repeat offending... what ya think?

Thats another good idea. But I have another. In counter strike when you tk ppl you have the option of punishing your attacker by blinding them or just striking them dead right then and there. Maybe that would be a better solution. I know I would try to pay more attention if I knew I was going to die right after the person I killed. And also it might help stop noobs that are just killing you for your vehical.