Does EA know what "Lock-On" means?

[Dr-X]

First, saying "the missiles aren't meant to simulate real missiles" is just stupid. What are they simulating? Bottle rockets?

Second, saying "if there is a strong heat source around and the missile will be attracted to the biggest heat source" is a bogus statement (excluding flares). If your missile has LOCK on a heat source such as a jet aircarft, it will follow that heat source even if it's sees another heat source in the area. Thats the purpose of LOCK ON, to keep it on the heat source that is selected. So even if you have 20 aircarft in front of you, and you lock on to 1 aircarft it will go for that aircarft UNTIL that aircraft drops flares.. Only then will it be confused and follow the flares or stay on the aircraft.. But no way in hell will it go for another aircraft just randomly. because if it did, then why lock on? What is the purpose of locking on if your missile is going to turn 50 degreees anyway and go for another heat source? Im talking about real world SAMs and AA missiles.

So, what you're saying is that a missile detects a heat source, and goes straight for that heat source, even if a stronger source is present in it's range? That's what you're saying, right?

But then you go on to say that the missile WILL be confused by flares. The point of flares to to create a larger heat source than the planes engines (hence why in real planes, you drop flares, decrease throttle, and pull away). So where exactly are you coming from with this? I dont think you understand IIR guided missiles very well.

[Tobacco]

How many times have you shot down a friendly aircarft when you had lock on an enemy?

zero


T

[Dr-X]

^^ Ditto. And I've made dozens of STA and ATA kills.

[Teriander]

So, what you're saying is that a missile detects a heat source, and goes straight for that heat source, even if a stronger source is present in it's range? That's what you're saying, right?

But then you go on to say that the missile WILL be confused by flares. The point of flares to to create a larger heat source than the planes engines (hence why in real planes, you drop flares, decrease throttle, and pull away). So where exactly are you coming from with this? I dont think you understand IIR guided missiles very well.

Dude, I know a lot about IR guided missiles. Especially the AIM-9 models, Stinger, and russian SA-7. But you don't quiet get it. I'll explain in detail for you...

When a missile (such as a AIM-9) is fired at a aircraft that it has "lock-on" it will follow that heat source and only that heat source. But when that aircarft flares, the flares are so close to the heat source (just a foot or 2 away at start) the missile gets confused because the heat source it had locked on has split into 2 heat sources and it decides what heat source it should follow. But like I said before, it doesn't matter if a alternative heat source (such as a second aircraft with afterburners) is in the missile's line of sight because it will stay on the LOOKED target. Unless the locked target is so closed to the alternative heat source that it makes the heat source look like a single heat source that splits into two.

It can be confusing explaining in text. If you still don't get it I'll try to draw it out for you. But trust me. I'm right about this. The government would sue Raytheon if they knew their missiles would go for another aircraft when the locked aircraft didn't flare or out maneuver the missile.

[Dr-X]

But here's what you obviously dont understand - these aren't real missiles. They're game missiles. They're not manufactured by Raytheon, they're just graphics and code, made by Dice. This means they can do whatever the hell they want them to do. And this means they're not going to give you a 100% solid lock, or it would suck to fly helicopters. Are you starting to understand? If someone fires a real IIR missile at a helicopter, it has almost no chance of escape. Do you think this would improve gameplay? I dont, and I'm willing to bet my left nut 90% of BF2 players agree with me.

[80083r]

So, what you're saying is that a missile detects a heat source, and goes straight for that heat source, even if a stronger source is present in it's range? That's what you're saying, right?

But then you go on to say that the missile WILL be confused by flares. The point of flares to to create a larger heat source than the planes engines (hence why in real planes, you drop flares, decrease throttle, and pull away). So where exactly are you coming from with this? I dont think you understand IIR guided missiles very well.

Yes - it's confused by flares because they are in the same area as the original heat source.

The same thing happens if you fly past one of the oil burning rigs. If it's between the missile and the heat source, the missile gets confused. It's got very simple software.

The idea of flares is that one heat source is now several heat sources, and the missile can only hit one.

It doesn't go for the strongest heat source, it goes for the one you are pointing at, unless something splits off from it, or something that is indistinguishable from that event.

[Teriander]

But here's what you obviously dont understand - these aren't real missiles. They're game missiles. They're not manufactured by Raytheon, they're just graphics and code, made by Dice. This means they can do whatever the hell they want them to do. And this means they're not going to give you a 100% solid lock, or it would suck to fly helicopters. Are you starting to understand? If someone fires a real IIR missile at a helicopter, it has almost no chance of escape. Do you think this would improve gameplay? I dont, and I'm willing to bet my left nut 90% of BF2 players agree with me.

Well now you're just dodging our discussion. Part of your defense was " I dont think you understand IIR guided missiles very well." and now you're telling me "They're game missiles." What do you want to talk about? Game missiles? Real missiles? Or both? Since I've cleared you up on real missiles, I'll talk about the game missiles...

Sure I know they're just code made by Dice. And I know a real IR missile fired at a helicopter it will have almost no chance to escape. And no Im not expecting this in game. But Im Definitely not expecting it to just go after a friendly aircraft because it feels like it. Thats just plain stupid. And thats what this thread is about.

[Tobacco]

When a missile (such as a AIM-9) is fired at a aircraft that it has "lock-on" it will follow that heat source and only that heat source. But when that aircarft flares....

Or evades your poorly timed missle, you will miss or possibly shot down a Friendly. Dude, if they made it any easer you would be complaining about that to, stop fighting the game and have fun already.


T

[sumguyhavinfun]

i thought i could email ea and ask but my chances of getting a reply are the same as hitting an enemy air target with their missiles so i thought i would just ask the anagram servant "whats lock on ea" and the reply was:

HEAT LACKS NO OW

or

HEAT SLACK ON OW

and

CLOWNS HEAT AOK

also

HEAT SAW NO LOCK

[tk471138]

Are you starting to understand? If someone fires a real IIR missile at a helicopter, it has almost no chance of escape. Do you think this would improve gameplay? I dont, and I'm willing to bet my left nut 90% of BF2 players agree with me.

you know what else ruins game play those air fortresses bh its now what would improve game play because any thing at this point will improve gameplay

[bballplayafors]

Just go in bomb mode, get right behind the enemy plane while it is firing straight, switch to missles lock on fire 2 he's dead. Even if he flares, it such close range its hard to dodge them. I take out fighters with bombers doing this all the time.

[Death Touch]

I agree 100 %. The AntiAircraft "design" in BF2 SUCKS Horribly!! You CANNOT get a kill EVER. The TV guided Missiles are so hard to control because you're going so fast. And the emplaced "stingers" must be there for show because they don't DO SH*T!
Even the SRAW does not take out a Helo at close distance. I really hope they start to figure how to correct this misguoded attempt at balance, because currently, it stinks.

[Teriander]

Or evades your poorly timed missle, you will miss or possibly shot down a Friendly. Dude, if they made it any easer you would be complaining about that to, stop fighting the game and have fun already.


T

You're so wrong. If an evade happen because of my poorly timed missiles is 100% ok. Because I know it's my fault I missed and not poor game coding. But that's not the case here and you know it. I don't know why you guys pretend it isn't a problem. I bet you're the kind of guy who would say "Nothing is wrong with BF2 Blackhawks, its just a game it's fine.. leave it like it is." right? And when EA fixes it in a future patch you'll say "I always knew something was up with the Blackhawks, EA read my mind."

Im not fighting the game. I like it.. I just wish they would make it better and get rid of the things that make people say "That's B*ullsh*t!". You know what Im talking about, so stop fighting me.

[Handy388]

I do believe you havent taken relative and physical math's yet have you? Because you wouldn't be posting that if you had. The velocity of a missle (the amount of space it can displace from one point to another in a period of time, and in which direction), determines the outcome. Although most aircraft in real life cant pull a super sharp turn at high velocities neither can missles. And in this game since missles can't make a 360 or a 90 for that matter it allows for dodging. Once the missle overshoots its target with heatseeking, it will lock onto the next source within a given path and range.

In real life a roll wouldn't do much help againsed a heat seeking missile, however various manuvers that could tear your aircraft apart could be attempted, at which point the missle will overshoot hence loosing its lock.

Remember a missle is not aerodynamically designed for control, instead for speed and that speed on impact.

you are gravely wrong, modern missiles have an overload of 40G, and aircraft has an overload of 9G, that means missiles turns WAY BETTER THAN aircraft.

[SilverHawk]

Proper Missile Op.

It didn't surprise me how under informed people are about aircraft gear these days. Real Life Missiles (AIM-9L for USMC, AA-11 Archer for MEC, China) operate under a very simple system heat seekers all the more so since it doesn't have to do anything except track down an emission source (Like the AGM-45 Shrike or AGM-88 HARM does for SAM Radars) To put it simply, missiles in BF2 act like Heatseekers that are "Un-Caged" or are allowed to self aquire a target to attack (With no help from the Aircrafts Computer Systems) This is how AIM-9Ls work with A-10A Thunderbolt IIs since they posses no Air Intercept Radar. In this mode, the missile simply chases the largest heat source it sees and explodes when it gets within range. The Problem is, or that EA seems to have is that when your missile meets this source it goes BOOM it doesn't swerve to hit the nearest Solid Object (ALWAYS a friendly it seems) and implode on that which results in a narly amount of team-kills and reduces Emplaced AA to Emergency Anti-Tank Duties and AA Tanks to Anti-Infantry.

EA/DICE simply need to adjust that when your foe drops flares your missiles EXPLODE on them, not reaquire the nearest friendly aircraft (I have been lucky a couple times getting enemies, but only because they were the only things in the sky.) Some might say "Well, we have Lock On Tone so your whole speil is BS!" Well correct you are, but tell that to EA on modeling Missile Behaviour. Since you aquire tone on your HUD, your missile has been programmed to pursue that target to the best of it's abilities, if it misses due to countermeasures it explodes on them, if it's out manuevered it simply goes "dead" and self explodes after it's burn motor runs out (About 9 seconds total).

So, EA/DICE, Get your head out of your asses and FIX IT!

Edit : Yes, true on the G loads Missiles can take, but planes can make 10G turns, not 9Gs (Though Pilot Endurance is severly shortened). If your CTH Indicator said 100% in your HUD and you foe didn't use countermeasures and only jinked, he would be toast. But Flares and reducing your Thrust increases your Escape Window or your foes Window to being able to evade the missile along with what angle you/he fired at or at what distance/CTH the missile was fired. Air to Air combat had a lot of varables but that's still no excuse on how Missiles Work in this game.