Does EA know what "Lock-On" means?

[Lighthammer]

If you could point a TOW upwards, you'd hit a lot more enemies and a lot less friendlies.

As it is, it's obvious that each side had their AA turrets designed by the enemy, so as to spare as many enemy and kill as many friendly as possible. Rather than sit in an AA turret, you'd be better off trying to down enemy aircraft with a shotgun, or maybe by flicking balls of snot at them.

Imagine if every time you opened up with the BH minigun, the bullets magically moved through the air and killed friendlies on the other side of the map.

If you are using a weapon in the way it is intended and racking up more TKs than good kills, something is desperately wrong. The pilots, who are all deluded about their real level of skill, say it is as it should be. I wonder if they would think that if their bombs, bullets and missiles homed on friendlies and missed enemies regardless of range.
What if 3 pistol shots were enough to kill a blackhawk?

Were they regularly finishing rounds with scores in the negative, they'd scream bloody murder.

I don't give a flying **** what AA missiles do or do not do IRL. The fact remains that ingame the only counterweight to aircraft is broken beyond use.

It's obvious that the cretins in beta testing and the coders on the AA couldn't find their ass with both hands.

LMAO! Well said!

[Brutus]

Double post

[Brutus]

Yet again we seem to have a problem researching stuff. All the IR tracking missles the US (and most other countries) use are extremely resistant to countermeasures. This means they are also highly resistant to losing their lock. Add that to the fact that they all have IFF receivers to prevent them from locking onto friendly aircraft in the first place means these missles should not kill friendlys nearly as much as they do.

I'm not sure that this is correct. IFF is kind of a misnomer. IFF does not determine if an A/C, helo, ship, etc is a friend is through mode 4. It does not determine if a target is an enemy. Civilian A/C does not have mode 4.

If an IR missile had an IFF interragator, which I don't think the AIM-9 does, it would only be able to tell if an A/C was a friend, not an enemy.

Another thing to note is that many combat pilots will switch off their IFF when over hostile territory, since it is easier to track IFF than a radar return in certain areas.

If you can show me where it says that A/A missiles use IFF that would be great.

[Brucewillis2]

I don't? Educate me. But before you do make sure you read all of my post about what I said on air combat, because Im sure you'll lose the argument against me.

OMG buddy... I've just read this thread. You make heaps of sense! Because its basic common sense... there's something seriously wrong with the way AA works in this game.

I can't stand the way the stingers spin off to hit a friendly. And the fact a good aircraft pilot dominates in this game without good aircraft competition.

EA and Dice NEED to fix this. At the moment helicopters and aircraft dominate the game, whether it's capping flags, bombing, hellfire attacks on tanks... they need to balance it out by making the AA missiles work and therefore causing pilots to sweat it out a bit more. :evil:

[Frenchman]

The missles don't use IFF, but they lock onto a target and resist switching to a new target. That's the whole point of the ECCM on the missles. The missle doesn't know between a flare, a plane or anything else. It merely knows intensity and what the profile of the original target was.

A IFF system will merely look in the same cone as the missle sees, and see if there is an IFF signal. If there is, the idea is to prevent firing a locked on missle at a known friendly target. No missle has an IFF system ONBOARD, it relies on the targeting aircraft for that information.

The point is, if you want to make the system work in a logical, workable manner, you simply prevent a lock on if there is a friendly target in the viewfinder. And if you fire the missle, it attempts to hit it's original target or will be lured off and detonate on counter measures. One thing that needs to be understood... THESE MISSLES WILL NOT GO INTO A REAQUISITION MODE. If they lose their lock, they safe up and become duds. It'd be pretty damn unusual for a missle to switch it's lock onto another airplane and destroy it. It's also fairly doubtful that a missle would have enough energy left to actually hit and destroy the plane.

The behavior is VERY inconsistant with the way these missles work. The easiest solution is to make them more realistic. If it works in real life, it's gonna work in the game.

[SilverHawk]

Isn't that what I said in my first post in this thread? I swear there must be in echo in these forums!

[IVfluids]

...I find it strange how there are more people who've come into this thread and stated the same thing and then there is the select very few, for whatever reason, have to come out and state that they've never had that happen to them before! Either they are lying off their arse or they've spent maybe a total of 5 minutes ever in a Stinger or GLA....

Maybe us few have found our own ways to use them and realize what angles we should not exceed when firing missel at a target moving in a certain direction. I can tell you why I know when to fire a missel at a plane and when not to, because 80% of my play time in this game is spent with me flying in a jet, and because of that, I am constantly being fired upon. I rarely ever, ever, get hit by one. Now, I take what I know about my flying, how I ditch missels, and I apply that to when I am the one that is firing missels off.

I find it strange how so many of you have problems, and so few of us don't.

[Brutus]

Isn't that what I said in my first post in this thread? I swear there must be in echo in these forums!

You sort of said the same thing. You also said that IR missiles have IFF, which they don't. French clarified what he meant stating that the launching platform does the IFF interigation, which it does, the missile has nothing to do with that.

An AIM-9 WILL NOT explode on a CM, IT WILL fly through it and if the A/C does not do an s manuever or some other kind of jinking action the missile has a good chance to still hit the target.

[[13]VisciousDog]

Wow..this thread has a lot of twists in it. Some reply..it is this way. Then..no..no..no..It is that way. You are wrong..it is this way. C'mon guys..get it together. I afraid to state how it is, due to someone will respond, else. Their is a couple of guys who have it straight here; "Silverhawk" and "Teriander" .. Then others twist it up.

I fly a lot in Falcon 4.0, and Lock-On: Modern Air combat. Those are sims. You can out manuaver missiles, and out manuaver the enemy on your tail. Their is problems with the AA vehicles. Everytime I fires AA guns (Like at a enemy Heli), I get punished, also team Vehicle damage. I do see the AA missiles go a stray after I see the flares are used. I say.."Well, he used his defence. Worked ok, but find "Team Vehicle damage" message. So, now I stay away from the AA vehicles, or use em on gound troops. Also take cover from above. Tanks are best on shooting down helis.

If the avionics in BF2 were like Lomac and F4. I would kick butt. Fellow game players say I do awesome in BF2 for flying. I do have problems with the Avionics in BF2. They are cheezy. Also players fighting for aircrafts (like babies), so they can do kamakazi stuff. It is a real mess.

[Teriander]

Maybe us few have found our own ways to use them and realize what angles we should not exceed when firing missel at a target moving in a certain direction. I can tell you why I know when to fire a missel at a plane and when not to, because 80% of my play time in this game is spent with me flying in a jet, and because of that, I am constantly being fired upon. I rarely ever, ever, get hit by one. Now, I take what I know about my flying, how I ditch missels, and I apply that to when I am the one that is firing missels off.

I find it strange how so many of you have problems, and so few of us don't.

Dude, you might not even notice that you scored a team kill. When you're flying and you've got an enemy locked up, you're not paying any attention to the text that's scrolling on the left of your screen, all you're trying to do is shoot down a bandit. So you fire off about 2-6 missiles. I'm willing to bet my unlimited med packs that If you have a friendly who happens to be in front, side, or about to wiz passed you, at least one of your missiles will go for him, especially if it's a helo, and might even kill him. The only way you're going to know is if you got lucky enough to witness it, read the text to the left that you scored a TK, or you just got kick banned.

It easier for you to notice it happen when you're on the ground in a SAM because you have time to do other things like read the text and type "WTF" when you score a teamkill.

[IVfluids]

i dont make stupid shots like that when i see teammates nearby on my minimap. 2-6 missels at a time is laughable, i lite them up with my minigun first, fire a missle and continue to lay down the lead as it chases them, done deal. if they manage to outmaneuver the one missel that i shot and it chases another target down, it will only do one shot of damage. you guys rely on the missels too much for starts, from what i am reading here. i do read the **** in the chatbox also, i like to see if the same idiot i just shot down was the same idiot that keeps getting up in the air after he has been shot down several other times already.

i haven't been booted off a server in a long time for tks, and when i do get tks, 95% of the time it was from me making a bad judgement when dropping bombs and thinking i could thread them inbetween my teammates and on the enemy.

i'll take your unlimited med packs, even thought they don't do me much good in the air. but i guarantee you that every time i shoot a missel off, i make damn sure that the person i am aiming for is going to be the intended target way more often than not. i pay alot of attention to my minimap, mainly because i dont like dropping bombs on my teammates. the same principle, 95% of the time, i wont drop a bomb on a base if i see blue arrows in it, i wont fire missels if there is a friendly in the same grid with me either. just because i get a missel lock, i dont start jamming on the 'fire' button, i wait for them to be at the right angle and travel direction.

[Teriander]

i dont make stupid shots like that when i see teammates nearby on my minimap. 2-6 missels at a time is laughable, i lite them up with my minigun first, fire a missle and continue to lay down the lead as it chases them, done deal. if they manage to outmaneuver the one missel that i shot and it chases another target down, it will only do one shot of damage. you guys rely on the missels too much for starts, from what i am reading here. i do read the **** in the chatbox also, i like to see if the same idiot i just shot down was the same idiot that keeps getting up in the air after he has been shot down several other times already....

Dude, First of all, the word is "missile". Not "missel" or "missle".
Second, you just said "I don't make stupid mistakes like that when I see a teammate nearby." Then you wont understand the issue this thread is about.

This is about the missiles locking onto friendlies when firing at an enemy. Not about how much of an ace you are at flying. So your an amazing pilot. Way to go. That doesn't mean nothing is wrong with the missiles in this game. Light up that bandit with the minigun.. Good job. But we're talking about the crap missile system that gets distracted by friendly aircraft.

[IVfluids]

Wow, breaking out the grammar police mode as a defense for your arguement, nice lol. Hello, I am the Grammar Nazi, please use proper punkshuashun dot your Ts and cross your Eyes, asswad!!! lmao. nice.

it has nothing about me being 'ace', if that is what you want to call me, it has everything to do with firing the **** at the right time and wrong time. I never laid claim to being that, you did, i was just telling you my experience with the missels, but apparantly you believe i am just trying to pimp myself for whatever reason. if i needed a pat on the back to feel better, i'd reach over and do it myself.

now, as I said the MISSILE will **** up if you take a shitty ass shot with it, you expect the ****in thing to hit the target every time just cuz you have a lock? where would the ****in fun be in that?

for the sake of god, i flew my ass off on two maps of oman today and did not get one single team damage or tk as the result of any MISSILE (nazi) i fired, and that included smaktarding a helicopter on the deck of the carrier from maximum lock distance. Why on earth, please enlighten me, is this phenomenom not happening to me anymore?

Believe it or not, if you'd look at my posts about this subject a while back, I had the same opinion as you guys. I just learned how to work around it instead of *****ing about the inferiority of it and learned that alot of the problem was the way I was using it.

Also, to get your panties out of a knot for a while, maybe you should have read the xfire interview on the ea bf2 homepage:

[Xfire] Caracturus: Bl!ZZ4rD asks: Is it planed to add an Anti-Air class?

[EA] DieFledermaus: There are no plans at this time to add an additional kit focused on anti-air...I think we feel we can deal with the current community issues surrounding aircraft with other fixes

dont go all hitler on the poor guy who typed 'planed' either, not everyone uses spellcheck before they hit the reply button.

[[13]VisciousDog]

IVfluids;

Were posting how bad the Ground to air vehicles are getting the team vehicle damage, and punished when hitting enemy targets in the air, with a lock. The enemy doesn't get the message "Punish" or "Not", so their is a timer on these punish messages. When you do not press before the timer runs out. The punish will execute on its own. Enemy doesn't see this, and possibly gain points. I do not know about that though. But the person who is firing on the enemy aircrafts using, ground to air, will get negative points and these messages. I did get them a lot. I do not use ground to air vehicles on flying aircrafts anymore. Only tanks on helis and take cover from jets.

[Super Six Three]

Actually, IR Missiles DO explode on Counter Measures and DO NOT reaquire targets if their intial target is lost, they simply go dead and explode when their burn motor goes out. It's hard-coded into the missile to prevent the very damn thing that is happening on BF2, IR Missiles locking up the next closeset heat source and going after it. Even now that wouldn't happen because all missiles query an enemies IFF Transponder to see if it's friend or foe in the first place.

thats what i said