Why does everyone hate on the voss

[FPS[SONIC]]

What 'logic' are you referring to?

The fact that it's just a game? The fact that the Voss performs it's function very well? The fact that games are supposed to be enjoyable? The fact that you've always been an argumentative smacktard on these forums?

Next 'tard, step up! I've got some more virtual hostility for your shenanigans!

.lol.

[Raidyr]

What 'logic' are you referring to?

The fact that it's just a game? The fact that the Voss performs it's function very well? The fact that games are supposed to be enjoyable? The fact that you've always been an argumentative smacktard on these forums?

Next 'tard, step up! I've got some more virtual hostility for your shenanigans!

.lol.

No, the fact that in your opinion all balance issues can be solved by the fact that it works well. Would people be complaining about it if it didnt? That is poor logic. The Voss performs its function as a close quarters rifle. It also performs functions it shouldnt be able to. Like I have said, you want to draw a parallel to the Baur? Fine, give it a 30 round magazine and a faster rate of fire with the same accuracy and damage. That way, just like the Voss, you have a rifle thats good at one thing, and is an all-arounder also.

Its amazing how hostile people get on these forums. Second person to insult me for no real reason.

But congrats on missing the point completely just so you could state your opinion so eloquently. The point was, is you cant balance weapons to see how good they are. But you cant go the opposite way. The game would be no fun if all the weapons were useless. But then, it would be no fun if all the weapon "did its job well" like you said the Voss should.

Another thing, no one has commented about changing the description of the weapon. They instantly see the word "voss" and think I want to see the gun turned into a useless waste of an unlock. I am going to ****ing laugh when the next moron comes in here and says I am a noob and I suck and I fail at life for even thinking of changing the very description of the damn thing.

The argumentative smacktard bit is pretty funny. I have personally posted 2 threads (one relating to the APMs, and one related to the LMGs), and one got fixed, then nerfed too badly (APMs), while the LMGs are getting their accuracy back next patch. I maybe be argumentative, but hell, it works.

[FPS[SONIC]]

I just don't know why it matters so much. Can't you have fun with the game without having the description changed?

One thing most of us learned from BF2 is that changes by the devs impact more than what one might expect. Changes-nerfs, buffs--whatever--change the game play.

Everything is working pretty well. The last thing we need is a change to "balance" that which is fairly well balanced now. I own Vossers all the time with Clark, Baur and the Krylov, so I'm not sure where this supposed imbalance lies, but I'm prone to believe that it exists in the user's play style more than the weapon.

[Raidyr]

I just don't know why it matters so much. Can't you have fun with the game without having the description changed?

One thing most of us learned from BF2 is that changes by the devs impact more than what one might expect. Changes-nerfs, buffs--whatever--change the game play.

Everything is working pretty well. The last thing we need is a change to "balance" that which is fairly well balanced now. I own Vossers all the time with Clark, Baur and the Krylov, so I'm not sure where this supposed imbalance lies, but I'm prone to believe that it exists in the user's play style more than the weapon.

I can have fun. I do play the game. If the Voss stays this way until EA shuts down the master server, I will still be playing. However, that was just a suggestion. Whats so bad about doing that? It makes sense, since obviously the description is incorrect, right?

I agree about BF2 and the nerfs. I would be more disappointed if they turned the Voss into an over-nerfed piece of trash. Trust me, I played BF2. Thats why I stopped calling for damage nerfs on the Voss. I realized it wasnt the damage, but the accuracy and damage degradation at long range being too high. The only nerf I am requesting right now is to tone down how far the bullet goes before doing full damage. This would allow Voss users to keep their useful gun, and people who dislike the current Voss can actually stay at range.

I counter Voss users just like any other. Like I said, the Voss isnt inherently powerful, just the way it fires.

About arguments though, if you disagree, I am all for that. I can compromise. And like I said, if nerfs dont go through, I wont be upset. A bit disappointed maybe. If a DICE member just stated that "No, there wont be any Voss nerfs", I would be fine with that too. I just dont understand how some people (wont name names) go around saying "Only no-skill noobs use the Voss", and get ignored for the most part, but when I try to make a statement without pissing people off, people go off on me.

Just please, if you disagree, state why in a calm, collected manner. Thanks.

[FPS[SONIC]]

...

About arguments though, if you disagree, I am all for that. I can compromise. And like I said, if nerfs dont go through, I wont be upset. A bit disappointed maybe. If a DICE member just stated that "No, there wont be any Voss nerfs", I would be fine with that too. I just dont understand how some people (wont name names) go around saying "Only no-skill noobs use the Voss", and get ignored for the most part, but when I try to make a statement without pissing people off, people go off on me.

Just please, if you disagree, state why in a calm, collected manner. Thanks.

Agreed. :salute:

Your tone towards everyone else was hostile. That prompted a reaction from me. Some of those folks you were addressing were my forum 'friends' and I'm a loyal kind of dude.

I respect your last post and will abide by your request.

.

[Raidyr]

Agreed. :salute:

Your tone towards everyone else was hostile. That prompted a reaction from me. Some of those folks you were addressing were my forum 'friends' and I'm a loyal kind of dude.

I respect your last post and will abide by your request.

.

I was only starting with blank1, who felt the need to, for some reason, insult me. Dunno why, still dunno why, but he keeps doing it :\

[WolfAlmighty]

The best thing about pro-Voss posts? Any time you go off and check the stats of the person, you almost always find their Voss stat will be far, far higher than any other K/D ratio. You can find complete brain dead morons and 99% of the time they'll turn out to have the same thing. The Voss is notorious because it *is* a complete mess statwise and every moron knows it. I refuse to use it personally, just as I refuse to use the RDX or APM. Cheap weapons for cheap people.
Hell with it, my stats may be far from superb but getting a decent kill rate out of the Engineer SMG or any non-cheap weapon feels much more satisfying and will continue to make me much more proud of every kill. To outgun someone with a far inferior weapon takes far more control, accuracy and skill than any Vosswhore will ever know.
(OT: It was an honour to serve alongside BallaAce the other day. A genuinely skilled player.)

I used to feel this way, too. Except for the RDX part because I don't play on FF-off servers so there are no RDX macro-users and I never had a problem with people using RDX, but I used to feel the same way about APMs and the Voss and simply refused to use them as a quiet personal protest.

Then I stopped and thought about something. Would my teammates rather I kill the enemy and deplete their tickets, help take flags/silos, and help defend flags/silos or potentially waste a roster spot on the team by holding myself back from using the best weapons and equipment possible for the best situations simply because I felt they were 'too cheap and skill-less'? I know I would much rather have a teammate that would use his APMs to guard a back route or use his RDX to booby-trap a base, or fight alongside me with his Voss than I would one who refuses to use half of the equipment in the game that could really help out the team in the right situations simply because he believes gun x is skill-less and he would rather use the inferior gun y even if it means getting himself killed because of the deficiency. I guess the point when I stopped caring about my own personal score and instead started caring about doing whatever I can to help my team win the match is when I stopped thinking the way you do.

Within reason, of course. I'm not advocating hacks or exploits or anything of a questionable nature here. And it's no knock on you or anyone else who may think certain things are cheap or skill-less and refuse to use them because of it, I'm just saying I know how you feel, and even though I can relate to you I no longer feel the same way. This doesn't mean I think killing with APMs takes mad skills, nor do I rub my hands together and cackle 'OMG I so fvcking pwn!' whenever I kill someone with the Voss; what this means is that I owe it to my teammates to do whatever I can (again, within reason) to help them win the match, and if that means using 'skill-less' weapons and equipment to do so because they're the most effective means, then I won't hesitate to do it. If my teammates are trying hard to win the match and I'm not trying just as hard alongside of them, I'm cheating them out of a chance at victory because I'm too up into myself to use a so-called 'skill-less' weapon to get the job done. And honestly, I'd rather make the enemy die than cheat my teammates.

~Wolfgang

[FPS[SONIC]]

Thank you Wolfy for stating it so eloquently. Cookie for you, buddy!

[Diamond621]

I refuse to use it personally, just as I refuse to use the RDX or APM. Cheap weapons for cheap people.

I'm almost with you here. You make some decent points, but the idea of refusing to use a weapon as a personal protest is silly and counterproductive.

Let me put it simply: Your refusal to use a weapon at your disposal acts as another weapon in the hands of your enemy.

Use what the battlefield provides for you, and adapt to what it demands from you. If the Voss is the tactically correct weapon for the situation at hand, I am saddling up with a Voss. To hell with cheapness or some pathetic concept of 'honor' in this game. Situational awareness and tactical decision-making will net one a lot more kills and a lot greater sense of satisfaction than trying to fight with one hand tied behind your back, and then praising yourself for succeeding now and again when you do. There is absolutely nothing gained when you intentionally handicap yourself and then feel a sense of accomplishment for succeeding despite this handicap. The feeling is unwarranted and false since you have brought yourself into the disadvantageous situation in the first place.

And yes, I am aware this will catch me a bit of flak from a few folks. In all fairness though, I am a Baur user

[blank1]

I dont use the Voss because the game becomes way too simple. If I am assault, I will always have my Baur and defib.

This is altogether superfluous. I've read your previous Voss whines in numerous threads of the past -- this being just a "nice" cover-up for you saying the Voss is imbalanced.

Blank, I aint going to argue with you anymore. If you are going to completely bypass logic, fine, but dont get me involved.

I love how you say this then you immediately argue with me.

If you cant use the Voss as an all-around assault rifle, maybe you shouldnt be saying I suck, mkay?

I can use the Voss and kill you at any reasonable range or circumstance you give me. However, I mentioned that the Voss is not an "all-arounder" rifle, because it is not. The Voss has a weak zoom in (which shakes when firing), high deviation, low bullet damage, and a large clip. Sounds like its CQC oriented to me. Whereas the Baur has a strong zoom (and its shots bounce the scope very predictably), low deviation, high bullet damage, and a small clip. The Stock rifles both are somewhere between these performance "extremes." That is why they are "all-arounders," where the Voss is not. You should not assume the reasons behind an ambiguous post, but feel free to.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings by saying "Try again kiddo", didnt know you would take it so harshly.

I wasn't hurt at all. I made an observation. It obviously irked you. I'd apologize that your ego was apparently bruised, but, to be honest, I don't care quite that much.

All you have said thus far is that I suck at the game, and that you are the master of all things involved with it.

I've inferred this whole time, as opposed to directly stated that I am expert assault, not necessarily the master of "all things involved with it." I am a wonderful assault-medic. And, I have never said that you suck at the game. I've said that you're not that great. For the dozenth time, this is not the same as saying you suck. You're yelling at me about something I never said. Paranoid much?

But what the hell, I will dissect your post, AGAIN, because it is too easy :\

(see above statement where you didn't want to argue LOL)

You did troll. We are having a (mostly) mature conversation about the Voss and you have to leap in and say that anyone who complains about it instantly sucks at the game. People like you are the reasons others dislike these threads.

I never said that "anyone who complains about the Voss instantly sucks at the game," you actually just said that and credited to me, when I never said such a thing (an ABSURD fallacy, btw.) I single you out among ever single other player to mention that you should not be taken seriously regarding anything Voss related, because you are not a good player. The previous statement also assumes that you are in the minority of people who don't use the Voss (I think it's a safe assumption to say that the Voss is the most popular weapon used while playing Assault.) People like you that moan about the Voss are the reason people hate Voss threads. If we didn't have people like you, or dutchdude, or whatever other guy, we wouldn't even have Voss threads to worry about. You're the issue here, which is why I've mostly been attacking you.

You contradicted yourself. First you said the assault rifles are supposed to be all-arounders, which is true, then you said the Ganz is instantly supposed to be better than either of the 2 stock LMGs, which it isnt. The Ganz, is a more defensive based, longer ranged HMG, while the LMGs are supposed to be beefier assault rifles with worse accuracy.

Umm, since when does the assault rifle balance play into the exact same pattern as the LMG/HMG balance? First off, the two LMG's are essentially exactly the same, and there is only one MG unlock (the Ganz.) The two stock AR's are not exactly the same, and there are two AR unlocks which are very different from each other. There was no contradiction made. Anyways, you say that the Ganz is a defensive, longer ranged MG, while the official description (http://bf2142.com/content/Ganz_HMG) mentions that the Ganz combines (supposedly) the best traits of the Shuko and Bianchi and "is the crowning achievement in light machine gun design." Says nothing about defensiveness or long range. You just fabricated your own fact, which was not a fact at all. I think there is no issues with it performing better than the LMG's. It is available to both factions as well.

When I said I am in the majority, you again missed the point. Of course the majority likes the Voss, thats my whole ****ing argument. However, I meant I was in the majority of the skill tiers, the average players.

The majority of average players (people as good as you -- I know, I played with you for a few maps actually) use the Voss. They're simply not forum active.

I wont say try again, because god knows how you would react.

The same way as before -- ridiculing your perception that you need to sneak that in there to affirm some sort of moral or logical superiority. It was more of an observation, if anything. I am quite pleased that you seem to flip out whenever I call you out on that. Cheers.

[Raidyr]

First off, when I said I am done arguing, that was the last post I was going to respond too

Secondly, bruised ego about what? I find it hilarious how I say "Try again kiddo" and you cry.

Thirdly, you AGAIN missed the point about me being an average player. Its not about the Voss whatsoever.

Fourthly, your facts on the Voss are wrong. The shakiness can be overcome by a mediocre player. The bullet deviation got buffed, thats the thing that ruined it. The damage is good enough, and it has a large clip/magazine.

Fifthly, assault rifles have nothing to do with LMG balance. Dunno where you got that from. Also, lol @ the description about the Ganz. Since when was the Voss a light assault rifle ingame? Nuff said.

And yeah, I said I would stop arguing, but damnit you are too easy :\

Finally though, sorry to disappoint, but I do consider myself a good player. I have 3 other characters, and I do well. I cap the flags, get the kills, and help my team.

Oh, just noticed this.

I am a wonderful assault-medic.

Bias FTW.

Last edit, stop flipflopping between trying to say I am good, average, and bad. You played a couple maps with me, so what?

[FPS[VT_NERD]]

Voss's strenghts? To annihilate everything on its way? I played BF2, went back for one game yesterday and I could not believe how unbelievably cheap the Voss Lame-AR is. Point, click, click, kill. Any range, any target?! Sure, I'll try to overcome its stenghts. In a jeep.

<extra spaces removed>

Oh wait the jeeps still get their *** whooped by the PK rockets.

:shakehead:

You are exactly who I was talking about. Newsflash, all assault players get rockets so that's not something you can hold against Voss users.

When I play, I don't get owned by the Voss no matter what gun I use. I know not to fight at medium short range unless I'm using Clark, Voss or Krylov. I pick better positions and use different tactics in the engagements depending on what kit I'm using.

Sorry, but you can't go toe to toe with the Voss and expect to win because that's where it shines (tons of deviation doesn't matter at close range). The sooner you (and everyone like you) understands this, the sooner these forums will be a better place.

[Digital-Boy]

I love how people try to silence others by being condescending, e.x. "Sorry for the disappointment, try harder next time kiddo." It only makes it look like you have a serious inferiority complex

Also, most of the guys who bash the Voss (namely, raidyr and dutchdude) aren't too great at the game, so one shouldn't put too much weight on their perpetual Voss whining.

You're ability to cognitively form a proper argument in opposition to another leaves a bit to be desired.

Yet you defeated to purpose of your entire statement with another line that attempts to belittle me? Did you pass 3rd grade language comprehension?

There is a difference -- one you apparently failed to grasp. I think it's a better indicator of your maturity that you fabricate this paragraph to attack some sort of thing I never said... good one hotshot. Kleenex thanks you for your business, btw. Yeah, I don't care much about how you feel about me btw, so call me immature all you want.

Please, do not compare stats with me at all because it will be totally fruitless... you with your 4 days of play time and K-D of 1. lol.

I wasn't hurt at all. I made an observation. It obviously irked you. I'd apologize that your ego was apparently bruised, but, to be honest, I don't care quite that much.

... :|:

Anyways, you say that the Ganz is a defensive, longer ranged MG, while the official description (http://bf2142.com/content/Ganz_HMG) mentions that the Ganz combines (supposedly) the best traits of the Shuko and Bianchi and "is the crowning achievement in light machine gun design." Says nothing about defensiveness or long range. You just fabricated your own fact, which was not a fact at all. I think there is no issues with it performing better than the LMG's. It is available to both factions as well.

EA's description doesn't have any necessary bearing on how the weapon will perform in real game play. Remember the supposed high-accuracy G3 from BF2 v1.0?

[Namakan]

:shakehead:

You are exactly who I was talking about. Newsflash, all assault players get rockets so that's not something you can hold against Voss users.

When I play, I don't get owned by the Voss no matter what gun I use. I know not to fight at medium short range unless I'm using Clark, Voss or Krylov. I pick better positions and use different tactics in the engagements depending on what kit I'm using.

Sorry, but you can't go toe to toe with the Voss and expect to win because that's where it shines (tons of deviation doesn't matter at close range). The sooner you (and everyone like you) understands this, the sooner these forums will be a better place.

QFT :salute:

[Raidyr]

:shakehead:

You are exactly who I was talking about. Newsflash, all assault players get rockets so that's not something you can hold against Voss users.

When I play, I don't get owned by the Voss no matter what gun I use. I know not to fight at medium short range unless I'm using Clark, Voss or Krylov. I pick better positions and use different tactics in the engagements depending on what kit I'm using.

Sorry, but you can't go toe to toe with the Voss and expect to win because that's where it shines (tons of deviation doesn't matter at close range). The sooner you (and everyone like you) understands this, the sooner these forums will be a better place.

VT Nerd, I like you, and I agree with what you say, and even about Dutch Dude blowing it out of proportion. But I CAN counter the Voss. I DONT Want it nerfed into oblivion. All I want is, at the very least, a description change. This gun is not a light assault rifle. It can do just as well as the stocks/Baur at medium range. Also, these forums will never be a better place. At best, people will still post rants about statpadders, admin abuse, and the best buy gun. At worst, people will pick a new thing to ***** about. I honestly feel that the Voss is the only thing standing in the way of perfect balance in this game. Change its damage degradation. Thats all I ask. The only thing Voss users lose is their longer-range capability. They can still use the Voss in city maps, where it SHOULD own, another point I agree on, but it is really an all-arounder type of weapon.