Aircraft in the game.

[jimykx]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

I think he means armored as in "takes more than one noob tube hit to kill".

hmm i see

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

A blind chimp could learn how to fly well in BF2 in a matter of hours. The learning curve was pretty much horizontal. Air to air weapons that lock on, air to ground weapons that lock on - where was the skill in that? Unless you count the ability to time your missile so that the guy you're firing at doesn't have any flares as 'skillful'? The amount of time you actually spent dogfighting was minimal. Just fire off a load of hyuck hyuck missiles and you'll get a kill.

********. I started playing BF2 since the very first hours the demo was released. I was with the game through it's most patches. It was easy to learn how to fly, bomb and dogfight if you just came from BF1942/DC or Vietnam and had a considerable ammount of experience, but that's chopping half off the learning curve. BF2 was my first BF game, and despite my considerable experience with MSFS2002, I started learning from scratch, even when it came to joystick use. It was a long process, and I had to learn how to fly, maneuver in BF2 physics, then bomb and then dogfight. Each taking dozens of hours to get used to, then dozens to get "acceptable" at and then hundreds to become good and master the field. Anyone who spent as much time on their field of expertize, as pilots did for theirs, became a difficult to beat opponent in their respective area. Pilots just stood out more as there were less planes and names kept repeating on the kill message screen.

Before 1.2, most of the dogfights were cannon only, you had to work hard to set up an opportunity for a missile hit. Dogfights could have easily lasted 10 minutes. And if you're talking about shooting down new players, then that was as easy in 43 as it was in 2, that's a nonargument. It didn't matter if I used cannons or missiles.

You have no idea about BF2 and you were likely not a pilot in the game if you considered dogfighting in BF2 simple. Or in the off-case that you know how to take off with a jet, you were playing in some peripheral server where good players never congregated. The lack of weight in your argument shows.

Even after 1.2, when people thought that dogfighting was done with, and that missiles dictated everything, those of us who adapted (some quicker than the others), managed to turn dogfighting into something else entirely. It was now extremely important to dodge lock, vision and dogfiighting turned into something only the really good could do well. The skill shifted from being able to track well, into being able to dodge, evade and outmaneuver even better. Many couldn't adapt, those who could, brought to us some of the greatest videos we've seen in videogaming history.

Requiring no skill? And what the hell were those selfguided ATS weapons you're talking about? The attack jets missiles? Half of the game cycle they were bugged. It was considerably easier to hit targets with 5 bombs than with those missiles. I've had countless of people copilot with me on the 2-seaters and I remember only a handful who were of actually any use.

It was simple, it was easy, and it's one of the reasons why aircraft were perceived to be overpowered. If they make the jets like BF2, then it'll be a fail in my book. They need to bring back the skill into bombing and aerial combat, dumb bombs that don't lock on and cannons for a2a, so we actually test the dogfighting abilities of the pilot - not the poorly coded missiles.

That's because you've never played POE2. And you never became good at BF2. This is the typical DC elitist speaking who barks about skill, yet who never was able to adapt to BF2, where dogfighting became multidimensional after 1.2.

Yeah, air had it's serious flaws. From seriously bugged and unbalanced jets, with which DICE-s incompetence left a lot of people down. To an STA solution which required a tremendous ammount of skill and experience to match those of pilots, without any significant reward or motivation.

But the basic idea was sound, and if perfected, as shown in POE2, would have made for an amazingly balanced and skill-requiring experience. Something which could be fun for bombers, fighters, jet-hunters and the "lowly" groundpounder who was capping flags in a dune buggy.

[-Shifty-]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

I think he means armored as in "takes more than one noob tube hit to kill".

Yeah, it needs to be a useful piece of equipment. You guys remember the HMMWVs in BF2 and BC2, they had two idiots hanging out the back. Now what if they were sitting in the rear passenger seats and able to fire their weapons out of the winders, and what if said weapon was an M249 SAW? Then you have a .50 on top and 3 other guns aiming out. Then make the weapon capable of taking 1 or 2 40mm grenades and you've finally got yourself something people won't use as a taxi but as a mini BF2142 goliath.

[Stev0esque]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

well if you place the 40mm correctly you may be able to hit the two idiots maybe?

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

well if you place the 40mm correctly you may be able to hit the two idiots maybe?

From what they've said, it's more about where you hit the vehicles; you might kill one guy, kill all, kill no one but disable the vehicle forcing the people inside to come out, or stay inside and suck a second grenade/rocket to the face.

[Cdr]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

Wall of text

Hey now, don't get your panties in a twist. I wasn't calling all 'ACE BF2 PILOTS' ****. I'm sure your experience in the cockpit of a BF2 jet and an FS2002 plane makes you an awesome pilot! Hell, I bet when you got in an aircraft the people on the server would just leave because they knew it was game over. Chris 'The Red Baron' Redfield!

I frankly don't really care about your 'considerable' experience with Flight Sim, or the amount of hours you've logged on it. Nor do I care when you started playing BF2. Your assumptions as to when I started playing and what role I favoured are also quite wrong.

<WILD ASSUMPTIONS BELOW>
I'm guessing that if your dogfights lasted 10+ minutes, then maybe you're not as much of an Ace as you thought? If it took you a long time to learn how to fly in BF2 (especially after having such a varied and extensive aviation background), perhaps you should have stuck with the civilian world of FS2002 - CHARLIE OSCAR KILO, YOU ARE CLEARED FOR TAKE OFF, CLIMB 2000, CONTACT CONTROL ON 122 DECIMAL 5. I bet you've got your own little log book and take part in the 'Virtual Airlines' as well. Full throttle quadrant? Bless.
<END OF WILD ASSUMPTIONS>

I never really played DC, I always preferred the WWII vehicles and weapons of BF1942. And BF1942 is what I was comparing BF2 flying to - and my statement stands true, BF2 is easier to fly than 1942. If you can't handle that and assume that it's a dig at your personal skills as a pilot in BF2, well, then you really do need to get out more.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

Eeeeeeh! the thread is back!

My Beef with BF2 air was the stupid things you can't do that aren't "realistic". It's nowhere near a real flight simulator and it shows; it was specially bad during one of the updates that let you keep generating lift at 20 mph 10 feet off the ground; you could always recover with no problem from a perpendicular nosedive, and you never got affected by G-forces.

The choppers were downright silly.

And like I told Chris in another thread; the game should be good to play out of the box, I shouldn't need to wait for the community to come up with a mod to fix the game's shortcomings; I shouldn't be asked to buy games for the eventual mods that come out; and I mean not me personally, but me as a costumer. I don't like buying engine benchmarks like Doom 3 or UT3, I want games.

[eradicator8]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

I would like to see the Tie-Fighter, the A380 and the Lockheed C-130 Hercules equiped to the teeth.

[sike3000]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

looks like the account merging bugged for me, cant sign in to my proper account :S

[MatTheCat]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

A blind chimp could learn how to fly well in BF2 in a matter of hours. The learning curve was pretty much horizontal. Air to air weapons that lock on, air to ground weapons that lock on - where was the skill in that? Unless you count the ability to time your missile so that the guy you're firing at doesn't have any flares as 'skillful'? The amount of time you actually spent dogfighting was minimal. Just fire off a load of hyuck hyuck missiles and you'll get a kill.

It was simple, it was easy, and it's one of the reasons why aircraft were perceived to be overpowered. If they make the jets like BF2, then it'll be a fail in my book. They need to bring back the skill into bombing and aerial combat, dumb bombs that don't lock on and cannons for a2a, so we actually test the dogfighting abilities of the pilot - not the poorly coded missiles.

Sorry but from your description, you are thinking of a completely different game......Tom Clancy's Hawx perhaps?


Aha....I get it. you were one of those who never quite did master that pretty steep learning curve to make it into becoming an effective BF2 pilot but spent plenty time on the ground getting pwned from pilots who would just swoop out of knowhere and roast your ass!

E

My Beef with BF2 air was the stupid things you can't do that aren't "realistic". It's nowhere near a real flight simulator and it shows; it was specially bad during one of the updates that let you keep generating lift at 20 mph 10 feet off the ground; you could always recover with no problem from a perpendicular nosedive, and you never got affected by G-forces.

The choppers were downright silly.

Who cares about real. I want exciting, fun, and challenging. BF2 flight was all of these and then some!

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

What challenging? the damn thing doesn't even have the "arcade" flying physics of Ace Combat. The real challenge was to actually make it to a plane without getting teamkilled.
If you never played the PS2 Ace Combats you are not allowed to talk about fun and challenging regarding planes. Period.

[Cdr]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

Aha....I get it. you were one of those who never quite did master that pretty steep learning curve to make it into becoming an effective BF2 pilot but spent plenty time on the ground getting pwned from pilots who would just swoop out of knowhere and roast your ass!

http://bf2s.com/player/61573657/ - before I continue, I assume that is you?

[Stev0esque]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

What challenging? the damn thing doesn't even have the "arcade" flying physics of Ace Combat. The real challenge was to actually make it to a plane without getting teamkilled.
If you never played the PS2 Ace Combats you are not allowed to talk about fun and challenging regarding planes. Period.

Damn... only played Ace combat 2... (not that I have anything to say about Flying in BF2, I was a noob pilot. Never could get around to actually flying... Hell, In AIX bots would beat me!)

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

Damn... only played Ace combat 2... (not that I have anything to say about Flying in BF2, I was a noob pilot. Never could get around to actually flying... Hell, In AIX bots would beat me!)

Well if you played Ace2 on the PSone on advanced settings it gave you simulator like controls; like rolling and bank; but on the PS2 they added actual flying physics to an arcade shooter for no reason at all. And it was awesome. As in; yeah your plane has almost unlimited vulcan cannon ammo; and over 50 missiles and a couple of bombs; but fly it wrong and you are eating dirt in no time. Outside of that is 100% realistic Physics, so much that some of the custom planes from the Ace series were ported over to a flying simulator and what do you know, they fly.

So definetely; flying a plane in BF2 like you shuld fly a plane gets you killed; because the other guys will be doing all of these impossible but skilled BS maneuvers; BF2 air physics are as realistic as those found on Hot Shots! the movie.

[MatTheCat]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

http://bf2s.com/player/61573657/ - before I continue, I assume that is you?

It is indeed.