Aircraft in the game.

[sithdemon]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

Taking smoke out will help with 2 out of the three rocket launchers, but if you've played BF2, you should be able to guide the M136 AT4 decently enough, especially if the chopper makes a pass at a ground target.

On conquest it's possible to not take out V-smoke for the chopper, and use something a little more offensive, especially if you have a gunner on VOIP, you just gotta keep moving and use the little structural cover you have.

For rush it's a little harder since the enemies are all going to be shooting tracers en masse. With a attack chopper it's still possible if you want to just hang back and bombard from afar, especially if you have a gunner with Zoom.

[-Shifty-]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

Learning curves hurt sales? BF2 TV heli missiles weren't exactly easy, neither was more of the gameplay, and especially not aircraft, look how well BF2 sold. It was the TOP FPS GAME for like 2 years and now it's still highly played.

[Cdr]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

BF2 had the best aircraft mechanics I've seen in a non-aircraft simulator game. I absolutely love learning curves.

A blind chimp could learn how to fly well in BF2 in a matter of hours. The learning curve was pretty much horizontal. Air to air weapons that lock on, air to ground weapons that lock on - where was the skill in that? Unless you count the ability to time your missile so that the guy you're firing at doesn't have any flares as 'skillful'? The amount of time you actually spent dogfighting was minimal. Just fire off a load of hyuck hyuck missiles and you'll get a kill.

It was simple, it was easy, and it's one of the reasons why aircraft were perceived to be overpowered. If they make the jets like BF2, then it'll be a fail in my book. They need to bring back the skill into bombing and aerial combat, dumb bombs that don't lock on and cannons for a2a, so we actually test the dogfighting abilities of the pilot - not the poorly coded missiles.

[-Shifty-]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

What kind of people did you dogfight? It took skill to last a good amount of time in the air. You only have one set of flares, if you don't get out of dodge before he can re-lock you than adios amigo.

The F35B was a flying coffin if you didn't have good skill. Try staying a whole round in an F35B on Wake Island with decent J10 pilots. You'd have to have some pretty nifty maneuvers up your sleeve if they ever find you. Then you'd have to sneak up on 'em and MG them if you wanted a kill because the missiles sucked at downing J10s. Horizontal learning curve? Nah! Sure if you're in a J10 and you're following somebody who's played maybe 20 hours you're going to lock on and kill 'em easily.

The concept was easy, lock, and shoot. The counter was easy, hear the warning, hit flares and evade. Putting that knowledge into practice was a whole other deal.

Helicopters TV missiles were hard to master, and even when you figured out the aim, then you had to deal with hitboxes, and the fact the player could change direction on a whim.

If I'm not making sense, give me some leeway, I'm pooped.

[Cdr]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

I guess I'm only speaking from experience on how easy I found it to shoot things down. There wasn't protracted dogfights like there was in BF1942 - granted it could have been down to the 'talent' that was around at the time, but it felt (to me) very very very easy. I guess it's also a fault of the equipment used, no need to employ dogfighting tactics, no need to have an idea of energy management etc. It seemed too easy to dominate.

It's not just the a2a either, it took skill to take out a Tiger or m10 with one bomb on the first pass. Bombing in BF2 felt like...cheating.

Choppers - well, I wasn't much of a fan of helicopters any ways - more of a fixed wing man, so I can't really comment on them.

Yes, learning to be a good pilot in BF2 wasn't super easy (and I may have exaggerated the horizontal learning curve) - but it also certainly wasn't difficult, you could achieve a good level of ability in a very short amount of time. But compared to BF1942, it was child's play.

[-Shifty-]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

I bet most people still haven't figured out BF2's bombing HUD. I could bomb from 300m accurately and people would just blow up and be like "WTF?"

Most people dive bombed (= easy target for a jet or AA)

[Vreki]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

The problem with steep learning curves is that they often end up as a barrier for newcomers.
Even on a public BF2 server you would get endless insults if you did sub-standard with a jet, especially by the crowd who thought BF2 was their personal flight simulator.
In a game like BF, vehicles should be easy to handle but hard to master. And importantly, no single vehicle should completely dominate the game, regardless of the skill of the user.
Of course, if the game is properly balanced, it will be able to absorb a Ace on one side since Air superiority is only part of the game. But we will see about that.

[MrChris_CJ]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

I have to agree with both of these ha, which is strange

What kind of people did you dogfight? It took skill to last a good amount of time in the air. You only have one set of flares, if you don't get out of dodge before he can re-lock you than adios amigo.

The F35B was a flying coffin if you didn't have good skill. Try staying a whole round in an F35B on Wake Island with decent J10 pilots. You'd have to have some pretty nifty maneuvers up your sleeve if they ever find you. Then you'd have to sneak up on 'em and MG them if you wanted a kill because the missiles sucked at downing J10s. Horizontal learning curve? Nah! Sure if you're in a J10 and you're following somebody who's played maybe 20 hours you're going to lock on and kill 'em easily.

The concept was easy, lock, and shoot. The counter was easy, hear the warning, hit flares and evade. Putting that knowledge into practice was a whole other deal.

Helicopters TV missiles were hard to master, and even when you figured out the aim, then you had to deal with hitboxes, and the fact the player could change direction on a whim.

If I'm not making sense, give me some leeway, I'm pooped.

while it depended on who you were playing I agree

jumping into a J10 the most you had to worry about was the annoying way the nose shook, otherwise everyone else was your ***** lol
Flying the F35, dam that took balls ha because like you said your missiles just flew right through it and hitting one of those things with the cannon in a reliable manner was hard; ghosting the landing strip was usually the best way but even then have to remain unnoticed

and hell yes so many times the TVGs just went through stuff, you even saw it on the TVG camera as it passed through the target lol, I'll admit I think they were a bit powerful but still you needed to be good with them

there was a lot of learning to be had in bombing though yeh, so many people overshooting, or being useless when they were in a 2 bomb plane like the F35 and dive bombing is what most of them did and it was dangerous ha (I still remember shooting down planes in a tank that tried it) I remember the satisfaction of mastering higher altitude drops

I guess I'm only speaking from experience on how easy I found it to shoot things down. There wasn't protracted dogfights like there was in BF1942 - granted it could have been down to the 'talent' that was around at the time, but it felt (to me) very very very easy. I guess it's also a fault of the equipment used, no need to employ dogfighting tactics, no need to have an idea of energy management etc. It seemed too easy to dominate.

It's not just the a2a either, it took skill to take out a Tiger or m10 with one bomb on the first pass. Bombing in BF2 felt like...cheating.

Choppers - well, I wasn't much of a fan of helicopters any ways - more of a fixed wing man, so I can't really comment on them.

Yes, learning to be a good pilot in BF2 wasn't super easy (and I may have exaggerated the horizontal learning curve) - but it also certainly wasn't difficult, you could achieve a good level of ability in a very short amount of time. But compared to BF1942, it was child's play.

they were typically a lot shorter than 1942 yeh, would agree on that, used to love mass dogfights in 1942 ha

ahh the memories, bullseyeing a tank with your single bomb I loved that ha, especially in the Stuka and its double whammy

but I would agree, there was enough depth in flying in BF2 but in a short span of time you could become a pilot that probably had too much power, but thats just how the game was balanced and worked out

BF3 needs to put the fear back into it, when in a plane I shouldn't be chuckling if an aa site paints me lol

[-Shifty-]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

If you could become a good pilot in such short amounts of time, why were most of my air victories not too bright?

F12 camera FTW

[-Shifty-]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

If you could become a good pilot in such short amounts of time, why were most of my air victories not too bright?

F12 camera FTW

[jimykx]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

BF3 needs to put the fear back into it, when in a plane I shouldn't be chuckling if an aa site paints me lol

Exacly, people need to "fear" the planes. They shouldnt go hop in them and use them as a taxi like people do with humvees or quadbikes. They should look at a plane and say: "damn, that's hot, i dont want to touch that!" or "better leave that for the pros!". I never managed to fly well in bf2 and i never really tried because i was a better assistant than at doing things myself (for example sniper spotting, or taking the gunner seat at attackhelos or at tanks), and i hope it stays that way. If i knew a good plane driver was essencial to win the match then i wouldnt go play with the planes, i would leave them for good pilots and i would go do something else

[-Shifty-]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

I think HMMWVs should be armored, bullets shouldn't go through them. If you make them destructible via explosives or very high caliber weapons only, people might actually run around capturing flags with them.

[Minmaster]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

we all know games these days are getting made more and more for the casuals and i don't expect jets to have any kind of complexity compared to BF2. air power will never rule again like BF2. not even half of what it was in BF2. whatever keeps the casual gamer happy is what DICE will do, they will cater to them over the small % of hardcore BFers. if air power rules in BF3, you know the casual gamers are going to complain and everything will be nerfed.

[jimykx]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

I think HMMWVs should be armored, bullets shouldn't go through them. If you make them destructible via explosives or very high caliber weapons only, people might actually run around capturing flags with them.

When did bullets went through them ? they only go through the glass and it's in bfbc2 because in bf2 you could only penetrate glass with the m95

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Aircraft in the game.

When did bullets went through them ? they only go through the glass and it's in bfbc2 because in bf2 you could only penetrate glass with the m95

I think he means armored as in "takes more than one noob tube hit to kill".