just an observation

[Infernalis]

Re: just an observation

Oh yes so many support guys spamming grenades and mines and rdx everywhere, then enemies hiding in crates and walls and throwing sentries trough the floor. Good times but even with a good layout in the Titan the rest of the map was bare like Wolf said.

thats basically some sort of rush and conquest mixed. i kinda like the idea.

More or less, the objectives in themselves are more varied. But I don't believe Dice want to (and can) do something like that, it's hard to balance and requires good ideas to make a map interesting.

[jimykx]

Re: just an observation

Oh yes so many support guys spamming grenades and mines and rdx everywhere, then enemies hiding in crates and walls and throwing sentries trough the floor. Good times but even with a good layout in the Titan the rest of the map was bare like Wolf said.


More or less, the objectives in themselves are more varied. But I don't believe Dice want to (and can) do something like that, it's hard to balance and requires good ideas to make a map interesting.

true, but what makes a game totally new and not just a "copy" are the totally new ideas and features, were i think dice is great on doing
lets say, they keep the base-game, but they improve it, they dont go back in progression.

[Amaranthuse]

Re: just an observation

DICE is always pioneer in first person shooter, they always have fresh ideas.

BF2 I think was the first modern combat game in the years that were mostly WWII. Weapon unlocks.

BF2142 introduces Titan game mode, which is completely unheard of.

BFBC2, Rush mode, removes health and stamina bar, variety of weapon choices, add ons.

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: just an observation

Read these and tell me if you agree:

http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com/entry.php?157-The-Troybob-Essay-Part-1-Battlefield-Diversification

http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com/entry.php?159-The-Troybob-Essay-Part-2-Maps-and-Strategies

http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com/en...-vs-64-players

I haven't read the entire thing yet but I totally agree with the few points I scanned just now. I'm one of those people who like play on large 64 player maps with about 32-45ish amount of people. The game became almost pure strategy even in pugs at 32 players on 64m maps.

[jimykx]

Re: just an observation

DICE is always pioneer in first person shooter, they always have fresh ideas.

BF2 I think was the first modern combat game in the years that were mostly WWII. Weapon unlocks.

BF2142 introduces Titan game mode, which is completely unheard of.

BFBC2, Rush mode, removes health and stamina bar, variety of weapon choices, add ons.

bf2: pretty mutch everything was revolutionary
bf2142: more complex Class unlocks/customizations (people say games with weapon/classes unlocks are copying cod4. actually bf2142 came first than cod4 and already had that)
bfbc2: how could you forgot about destruction :O?

[Infernalis]

Re: just an observation

Everything revolutionnary in BF2? Hum no, in 1942 maybe, in BF2 the revolutionnary things were (off the top of my head) : commo-rose, squads+commander, voip, unlocks. The mix of combined arms, classes, conquest and others are from BF1942 (never played codename eagle, the first Dice game). And then there's others games/mods which have some parts of gameplay used in BF before BF and sometimes in a more polished way.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: just an observation

As far as game modes go, theyve been seen elswhere. Delta Force did a lot of this type of stuff.

Crunch

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: just an observation

Even Unreal Tournament had Domination and Assault back in '99. Domination was basically Conquest on a smaller scale and Assault was objective-based and somewhat similar to Rush.

Good artists borrow, great artists steal?

[jimykx]

Re: just an observation

Everything revolutionnary in BF2? Hum no, in 1942 maybe, in BF2 the revolutionnary things were (off the top of my head) : commo-rose, squads+commander, voip, unlocks. The mix of combined arms, classes, conquest and others are from BF1942 (never played codename eagle, the first Dice game). And then there's others games/mods which have some parts of gameplay used in BF before BF and sometimes in a more polished way.

i meant , everything new, keeping the 1994 structure and base idea

[CptainCrunch]

Re: just an observation

Yep

You can find pieces of everything from either UT Series, CS:S, and Delta Force.

1942 did bring a very large environment that anything could be done in. I dont think anyone else had that.

Crysis brought us the first fully destructable environment.

Not that all of this is good or bad, but with melding things together and making improvements or changes, a game could be even better.

Crunch

[Amaranthuse]

Re: just an observation

bf2: pretty mutch everything was revolutionary
bf2142: more complex Class unlocks/customizations (people say games with weapon/classes unlocks are copying cod4. actually bf2142 came first than cod4 and already had that)
bfbc2: how could you forgot about destruction :O?

Destruction came first in BFBC1, I didn't play that, since it is on console, so I couldn't remember :P

BFBC2 I am spoiled with destruction now I don't even notice.

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: just an observation

Well, other games had destruction before BFBC did.

Red Faction comes to mind...

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: just an observation

Well, other games had destruction before BFBC did.

Red Faction comes to mind...

Indeed, and Geo-mod was far more intuitive than Destruction 2.0's scripted destruction is, and Red Faction was released in 2001 (before BF1942 even). Of course, having that amount of freedom of destruction in a big multiplayer game like a Battlefield setting may cause some serious server lag, dunno. But Destruction 2.0 isn't really all that great...I don't see what the big deal of it is tbh. Yea, it's nice to make holes in buildings, etc. but it's scripted destruction. It reminds me of blowing up the buildings during the tank missions in MoH:AA.

I've said it before many times, though. All the BF games up until BC2 had some nice improvements going for them, and BC2 dialed everything back quite a bit. 'Perks' are not new, weapon variety is not new (although not having faction-specific weapons is new to BF...wth DICE?), etc. The only improvements made from BF2142 to BC2 is prettier graphics and 'destruction'. Nothing else is innovative or hasn't been done before. I guess that's what happens when developers are forced to think inside the box because that's what's selling. Not that I can blame a company for playing it safe in this economy, but 'safe' typically equates with 'mediocre'. Hence, BC2.

[jimykx]

Re: just an observation

Well, other games had destruction before BFBC did.

Red Faction comes to mind...

yep red faction1. it was "real" destruction. it didn really had physics but it would build a whole in any type of ground u would blow up(metal was indestructible). red faction guerrila is the one i can say its the best destruction engine right now.
still scripted, i think noone has ever had the courage to bring destruction like bfbc did to a multiplayer game. now we have to wait for destruction realism improve and so we can have more realistic destruction in the future x)
<-- also its my 999 post!

[troybob]

Re: just an observation

Or instead of the Titan mode various objectives like in both enemy territory so you can combine SnD, CTF etc in one map but it requires good level design...

No Fly Zone Day 2

It was a DC map (1942 mod) that had 2 airfields in the biggest possible map size. Objectives were to destroy the radar dome, the hangars, and the control tower. You were given bombers, fighters, transport helo's, and light vehicles.

The order was up to you - destroying the hangars meant no bombers spawned. Destroying the tower meant no fighters spawned. Destroying the radar dome meant no static defenses spawned. It was awesome!

There was also one with bunkers and the opposing side had to go in and destroy the bunkers (it was rush mode back in 2004)