Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

Vreki is def right. BF2142 class design is near perfect. Support has the ammo but no explosive other than nades. Medic/assault should be primary composition of troops. Recon don't have gillie and active camo takes a slot. BC2's recon has balls which I think serves the roll pretty well. In 2142, it is the support who has the man-scanner, but it takes a slot, while recon has no kit in slot 4.

But we have to remember that support in 2142 has turret.

Over all I think 4-class design is better than 7-class. The assault and engineer class in BF2 are mostly redundant, which is the very reason that they were combined with medic/support and anti-tank in the first place. The situation in BC2 is a bit different becaues that game is basically explosive spamming.

My $0.02 is that returning to 2142 class design with BC2-like all-kit guns except sniper rifles, and give support some funny toys to compensate for lack of explosive.

[jake_]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

New to the forums, so since there is no introduce yourself page, might as well do it here. It depends on how they structure the game. In Bad Company 2 there is no commander to use artillery or radar, or any of those features that can be destroyed. So, the need for a special ops class is not as necessary, seeing as you can get the special ops type weapons in the assault class.

I do not mind the merging of the support and assault too much, but that is because I play as assault a lot and being able to refresh my own ammo means I spend less time pissing around looking for it, and more time moving ahead. In previous games the assault class could not get any support points, so I think I could live with leaving them merged. But then give them support weapon choices as well: M249 or M60. Give medics assault kits without grenade launchers like BF2 had. Id like that balance.

I think if they return to a more BF2 style of game (of course hopefully with the influence of Bad Company 2) then more classes will be needed. Special Forces will need to return to blow up objectives, a bolt action rifle wont be good enough to sneak behind enemy lines. Id like to see the assault class have the choice between support LMGs and assault rifles as well.

I think the BC2 system allows all the classes to do something "supportive" and score extra points. But it will need a retooling if they go back to the more traditional style of Battlefield.

Your idea sounds a lot more like BF2142 than BF2.

Also, there's an "introduce yourself" sub-forum way down at the bottom in Off-Topic.

[jake_]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

Perhaps it is, although I have no desire to fight walking robots anymore. I think they should look at all of the elements of the BF games since BF2. BF 2142 had a good game mode in Titan, and the merging of classes was not that bad. However I think if they return to BF2 style (commander and his gear) they need a separate Black Ops kit. Bad Company 2 took some useful influences from CoD with the ability to customize your weapon kit a little bit. I like that I can have a red dot sight on my M416. I think a BF2 styled game, with some class mashing (assault and support mostly) would be best, taking the customization elements of BC2. Let's not forget the destructible environment.

I suppose my overall point is: depending on the game setup, a wider selection of kits may be required. Especially if we get the destroyable objectives back, like radar or artillery.

Weird, I am used to an "introduce" yourself being towards the topic, but that is just the way the forums I am used to operate. Oh well, too late now.

I liked mechs But yeah, I think the crucial elements that made BF2142 such a game weren't entirely dependent on the futuristic setting (although I personally did like them). Destroyable objectives are something that I miss in BC2, it allowed for more variety of objectives within a single map. You didn't just have to push forward to the flag, you could focus on supporting your team by destroying those objectives.


You'll get used to TGN after a while. It has a very sprawled out feel to a certain extent because of all the game sub-fora, but most of them are dead except for BF now.

[Infernalis]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

You could damage the mech with an assault rifle, you just had to go under the legs and fire in the vent.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

Thats why its assault and not engineer with all their awesome toys.

Crunch

[Minmaster]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

2142 did it right but i wouldn't mind it if they did something to nerf the assault/medic kit which is too powerful with medkit and airburst rockets.

[Vreki]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

Thats why its assault and not engineer with all their awesome toys.

Crunch

Exactly
Get in a squad, you will get revived, resupplied and have those pesky walkers removed.
Or die alone.

[Vreki]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

You can take the player out of COD, but you cant take COD out of the player.


I think you are mixing your arguments a bit.
* First you complain that you cant drive away a Walker/Tank as assault. I must say, that seems silly to me. Why bother with the AT-specializations if one Assault can drive a tank away and three can eat it alive?
* Then you complain that you always join a squad, but everybody else is a sniper. And then at same time admits that even your organized squads do not carry a fixed AT-spot. (Btw. a 4-man squad? I thought we were talking BF2142, not BC2?). Well if your organized squad is pure Anti-Infantry, then you must pay the prize of a re spawn when you encounter armour. But if the first man killed spawn as an Engineer, then your squad should still be able to survive the encounter.

So what is the point? If you always join a squad then it doesnt matter that a single assault cant handle a tank. And if you choose to add another assault to a squad that is already pure AI, well, then you had it comming.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

Also, if you join a squad that plays as snipers and armor is an issue on the field, going assault is not the way to go and you need to adapt to the change in warfare. I say you, because that is the only variable you can control, other than yelling at the snipers to throw down explosives or mortar.

There is nothing wrong with playing one way, if thats what you want to do, but dont expect good results in Battlefield games because of that.

And I mean you as in general, no one person specific.

Crunch

[jake_]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

The PK rockets were really easy to unlock in BF2142. It's not like you had to play for hours and hours...

Furthermore, they weren't adequate defense against a walker anyway. I would know this because I played something in the area of 500 hours of BF2142 and primarily played assault. PK rockets were never a good strategy against a walker, plus there were only a few maps and times where you would actually come face to face with a walker one on one. Any other time, you just did what you did if a tank rolled it: run like hell, find cover, switch to engi.

The walker was just like another tank, but less armor and more firepower. Engineers could take them out very easily if they knew what was up (except maybe on Fall of Berlin). They diversified the game in terms of vehicles, but it's not like it was impossible to play as assault, which can't take out tanks or APCs either...

[Vreki]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

IBut that is the first time I had to upgrade or unlock a grenade launcher. It would have been a better experience, but I can't complain. It was a good game, I enjoyed it the short time I played it.

I just wish that the launcher was standard. Oh also to the Dane... I am not a CoD guy. I played CoD2 maybe half as much as BFV or BF2, and I stopped playing CoD4 all together In fact its not even installed on the last two computers I have gone through (maybe its on the other one... I think I deleted it to make room for Airborne... mistake...)

It just looks to me like you missing the whole "combined arms" aspect of BF. Making each soldier a jack-of-all-trades would just encourage the players to be a bunch of lone wolves, instead of forcing them to rely on their teammates for support.
I know a lot of "teammates" are only usefull when they die and you can pick up their kit, but I still prefer it that way to the herd of individuals we get in COD.

I too have often been in situations where I was lacking the right tools, but then I just hide and spot.

[Minmaster]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

naw 2142 was fine without something that does more damage to vehicles than nades for the non engineer classes.
next time you don't have any anti-vehicle weapons, look for a rorsch canon or some dead guy's engineer kit. rorsch will eat up walkers, although the really good walker driver use their head and avoid them.
letting everyone take a shot at vehicles will decrease the importance of engineers. if you want to run and gun and take on vehicles, just play engineer! the SMG is a pretty good run and gun weapon plus you get nades too.

[Vreki]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

I may have misunderstood you. Are you not saying that you want to be able to do enough damage to a tank to scare it away?

[jake_]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

To get an engi out of a vehicle to repair it, or cause a tank to make defensive manoeuvres you have to do significant damage to their vehicle, i.e. 20+ points of damage. If you do 5 or 10, you won't scare them off; you will alert them to your position and they will proceed to open fire on you. That should not be a point of contention for anyone on this forum. There were no grenade launchers in BF2142, but I have never seen someone firing a grenade launcher at a tank in other games, and then see the tank back off. If when I'm driving a tank someone fires at me with anything smaller than an RPG (including grenades and GLs), I immediately blow up everything in a sizeable radius around them until they are dead, because they clearly aren't an engineer and don't pose a serious threat I have no fear of them, so why not chase after them with my cannon until they're dead?

I'm sorry, but your strategy is flawed, which therefore makes your point moot. I'm pretty sure many of the other BF veterans on this forum would back me up.

Furthermore Assault doesn't need anything more than a grenade launcher (or PK rockets in the case of BF2142) because the purpose of assault is not anti-tank warfare. If every kit had all the necessary items to combat everything in the game, it would defeat the purpose of having definable kits. It's a rock, paper, scissors sort of thing in a way; everything has it's weaknesses and advantages and you have to combat that with skill and game know-how.

You don't start with a grenade launcher in BC2 either, it's an unlock as well, if memory serves correctly, but it's not like it took a long time to get to the PK rockets in BF2412 even if they were a good strategy against heavy armor. If you had played the game more than 10 hours you probably would have unlocked them quickly.

Finally, why are you even trying to complain about the structure of a game, and tell us good strategies when many of the people on here have been playing at lot of these games for hundreds of hours when you only have played them a few? I don't mean to be offensive, but perhaps you should defer to the knowledge of others.

[Minmaster]

Re: Would you like to see DICE bring back 7 kits?

yea what he's proposing sounds like what nades used to do to vehicles in 1942. way too much damage.

look, tanks are tanks. they're supposed to be intimidating and should scare away the infantry (unless you're anti-vehicle class). allowing everyone to take their shot at a tank takes away the whole point of having tanks in the first place.