BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

I got tired of it. He was arguing with himself more than me. Only one thing qualifies a computer to be a gaming computer; whether or not someone uses it for gaming. It could have 3 295's in sli on the latest board with the latest cpu and be sitting in a studio. They are putting computers in schools these days that are "gaming" worthy. Everyone and there sister are buying laptops that are gaming worthy like college chicks that haven't played the first game.

I run it at minimum graphics and ~50 FPS (Beta) on hardware which is 5-6 years old (!)

What a load of BS! I'v built every PC I've owned excluding the tandy 2000. You are trying to tell me a pentium 4 can run BC2 at 50fps with the minimum required graphics card. You are also telling me you are running the game with a $400-$650 card of its time but can't throw $100 on a better card.

You seriously think that "RTS Players" are only "RTS Players" you don't think that a large number of them don't play fps games? Or that a large number of WoW players don't also play other types of games? Please. We all just pick our one game and genre and hibernate I guess.

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

It isn't much of a "win" now... The game is broken for my entire clan with PB issues 20 seconds after joining a server.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Only one thing qualifies a computer to be a gaming computer; whether or not someone uses it for gaming.

Then by this logic, the only thing that qualifies a computer a "business class computer" is if its being used by a businessman. The market makes a clear difference between a gaming computer, and I also made it very clear in my post that this doesnt even remotely mean that these are the only computers used for gaming. 1/3 out of all PC-s sold are considered gaming computers, but most of the rest can be used for gaming.

The only reason it seemed as if I was arguing with myself was because your method of argument was picking out individual sentences from entire paragraphs.

What a load of BS! I'v built every PC I've owned excluding the tandy 2000. You are trying to tell me a pentium 4 can run BC2 at 50fps with the minimum required graphics card. You are also telling me you are running the game with a $400-$650 card of its time but can't throw $100 on a better card.

I have a setup of T5600, C2D which was released in 2006. ATi X1600 released in 2005 and an MTC motherboard from a company which last update on their website has motherboards showing supporting the Pentium 4 processort. So yeah, youre right, its not 5-6, its 4-5.

You seriously think that "RTS Players" are only "RTS Players" you don't think that a large number of them don't play fps games? Or that a large number of WoW players don't also play other types of games? Please. We all just pick our one game and genre and hibernate I guess.

That wasnt the point, PC gamers aswell as console gamers play all kinds of games, but the dedication to one specific franchise and/or game is more evident among PC gamers. A WoW player who has 3000+ hours clocked on his account hasnt always played WoW, but its very likely that either the other games on his account have vastly less time invested into them, or the time of release between WoW and the next played game was a couple of years.

As for the bolded part- exceptions are there, but they do not represent the trend by far. Infact, we actually do pick a game, genre or a franchise and stick to if for a long time. The difference between a PC gamer and a console gamer can easily be shown by comparing the popular multiplatform games which were a hit on consoles and flopped on PC. Whether or not this trend is caused by technical or social issues is up to debate, but its there. Stop seeing it as an attack on a playerbase, who cares if PC gamers are more loyal to their franchises. if you want to disprove it, then go ahead. But just raging and claiming "ure wrong!" is just silly.

The idea itsself is not new to any extent. Ive been trying to apply a reasoning to it and those reasons are largely up to debate and questioning, but not the way youre doing it, which just provokes a personal attack.

[[CF]Fire]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

It isn't much of a "win" now... The game is broken for my entire clan with PB issues 20 seconds after joining a server.

All you have to do is run the pb setup again.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

All you have to do is run the pb setup again.

How? I get kicks from every server and says PB hasn't initialized.

And Chris, console players don't stick around for old games because game companies won't support console games for long times; I'm surprised you think this is something inherent to PC gaming; I tell you, if there were FIFA 2000 servers up, some people wouldn't have bought the next year version that fast; EA is specially bad on consoles with this, since you can't rent servers for consoles, you have to buy games at launch, and pray they do well enough that the developer will keep servers up for a whole year.

Remember MGO? and MGO that came with MGS4? I haven't checked, but it's unlikely that servers for MGO stay up when the next gen console launches.

Seen any RE: outbreak server lately? That one got a long ride, almost two years. Even if you still wanted the game, there is no way to set up a server for it, not even P2P, so what are console players going to stick arounf for? The only "reliable" servers for consoles are for PSN or Live arcade games, and you don't have a guarantee that come the next console, they won't pull them off. MS recently shut down the entire XBOX live network, you can only access Live from a XBX360; how are console gamers going to stick around if there is no infrastructure.

It's a different culture not because one platform is inherently superior to the other; it's different cos we get treated differently; console was never about multiplayer til the first xbox, and halo sadly; but gamers on consoles are used to their games not lasting more than ayear because the industry advanced that way there. why do you think the emulation scene is so big too? You think if people didn't miss those old games you can no longher get a working console for they'd have started developing emulating software? you've seen the sales on retro games over PSN and Live?

We console gamers also marry to our games, and support them for long times, but we don't have the infrastructure PC has for multiplayer; your logic here is flwawed since you don't seem knowledgeable about consoles enough.

[jake_]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

How? I get kicks from every server and says PB hasn't initialized.

http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=pbsetup.php

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Then by this logic, the only thing that qualifies a computer a "business class computer" is if its being used by a businessman. The market makes a clear difference between a gaming computer, and I also made it very clear in my post that this doesnt even remotely mean that these are the only computers used for gaming. 1/3 out of all PC-s sold are considered gaming computers, but most of the rest can be used for gaming.

The only reason it seemed as if I was arguing with myself was because your method of argument was picking out individual sentences from entire paragraphs.

Entire paragraphs of mindless information meant to thwart anyone reading it away from the point being made in the first place. WTF cares if a computer can or can't be used for gaming. The point is you act like you know how many gaming computers have been sold but you don't. You have no information on how many computers are being used to play video games. On the other hand you can bet that every console sold was sold for the purpose of gaming. You brought up PC sales and compared it to console sales but the two can not be compared because there is no information who bought what computer for what purpose. You can write a 5 page thesis and when you are done I'll only have to pull one sentence from it to disprove the entire theory with common sense.

[jake_]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

You can write a 5 page thesis and when you are done I'll only have to pull one sentence from it to disprove the entire theory with common sense.

Don't do that. It's childish and stupid or so I'm told. :)

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

I feel like I'm back in intro. English.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

And Chris, console players don't stick around for old games because game companies won't support console games for long times

This is by far not the only reason, although definitely one of them. I agreed with this idea on the last page. People are still playing Quake 3, and not because its supported, but because its still to date one of the best competitive FPS games with a very strong community. Dont you think that if this was the only technical reason, then all these P2P games would have just as strong of a following right now?

Seen any RE: outbreak server lately? That one got a long ride, almost two years.

I know both for MGO and RE:O, but did you also know that by the time RE:O got canned, there were less than 300 players playing it at any given time? A lot of these online games for consoles get canned as soon as they have too small of a following. Not while they are thriving. MGO was no different. Thats because whenever a new game comes along, the community itsself moves forward. Games with players in millions will lose most of their playerbase as soon as new stuff comes along. HALO, GOW, R6V(2), COD2. The difference is that they "leap" more frequently than we do (again, let me stress, not a bad or good thing, just creates a different kind of community).

Good news for you, though, RE:O is back online, has been for over a year. For more details I can guide you to an appropriate thread in a RE forum, but I have to do some digging. Apparently theres a small fee involved and its in a Japanese network. For some such console online games, developers are even releasing server files for PCs.

Even if you still wanted the game, there is no way to set up a server for it, not even P2P, so what are console players going to stick arounf for?

Thats not how this works. The servers get shut down when the player numbers start dwindling, and Expletive explained the reason behind it. Console market reacts differently to new games because players arent bound to communities, clans, dedicated servers.

It's a different culture not because one platform is inherently superior to the other

Ive never claimed that. Not once. Not anywhere. A peculiar effect when "PC" and "consoles" are brought up in one sentence.

You think if people didn't miss those old games you can no longher get a working console for they'd have started developing emulating software? you've seen the sales on retro games over PSN and Live?

Actually, even if people did miss them, it wouldnt work out. Matchmaking with 1000 online players worldwide would first cost too much and secondly would be completely ineffective because youd far more likely to be connected from Alaska to Southern African Republic as you have limited to no players in your immediate surroundings. As such, the faster and accelerated migration to new and "better" game may be because as a game loses players, the laggy multiplayer experience increases.

We console gamers also marry to our games, and support them for long times, but we don't have the infrastructure PC has for multiplayer; your logic here is flwawed since you don't seem knowledgeable about consoles enough.

Been a console gamer since 1996, I was what you can call a "diehard RE fan" until 2004, Im still a member of a thriving RE community and troll around a couple of others. The difference between people, between cultures, between behavioural patterns is there and its evident. It shows in pretty much anything. The problem is that when people mention it out loud, some more sensitive types tend to look at it as an assault on a platform, even though noone went past the "they are different" line.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Entire paragraphs of mindless information meant to thwart anyone reading it away from the point being made in the first place.

Those entire paragraphs are there to make you think about the subject, to either get curious or to question the ideas. Instead you cut out one sentence and disagree completely with everything not on the ideological level or because you know better facts, but because you just, uhm... disagree! The statistics are there, figures, numbers, surveys. Even your completely baseless (with absolutely no idea how many PCs are used in gaming, at all) accusations can be overthrown using simple comparitive statistics from XBL online players to Steam online players (and its STILL not going to be enough, so you can open up Google and do the searching for yourself). Youre not even thinking alongside the subject, you have to be constantly spoonfed to be convinced. If youre hostile, agressive just because you dont feel like its right, Im not going to do the homework for you, but I will entertain myself at your expense.

But the problem is that youre not disagreeing with the idea or position, you just dont like what youre reading so you find one single line which you believe discredits the whole thing. Which is why the two of you are still not convinced that BC2 impact on MW2 can accurately be measured. Common sense, you say?

If youre curious about why do I act as if I had any insight, Ive read through countless of research back when MW2 came out, as people had strange ideas on all platforms. Popular myths like there are more consoles than PCs, PC users dont play videogames, only 1% of PC games are pirated, console piracy has no effect, and so on.

Thats exactly what you do too, Jake.

/I would have to scale this down to one sentence, though, but if I condense it enough, it might come off as an insult. So if you want to keep this up, maybe its best we take it to PMs at some point.

[jake_]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Those entire paragraphs are there to make you think about the subject, to either get curious or to question the ideas. Instead you cut out one sentence and disagree completely with everything not on the ideological level or because you know better facts, but because you just, uhm... disagree! The statistics are there, figures, numbers, surveys. Even your completely baseless (with absolutely no idea how many PCs are used in gaming, at all) accusations can be overthrown using simple comparitive statistics from XBL online players to Steam online players (and its STILL not going to be enough, so you can open up Google and do the searching for yourself). Youre not even thinking alongside the subject, you have to be constantly spoonfed to be convinced. If youre hostile, agressive just because you dont feel like its right, Im not going to do the homework for you, but I will entertain myself at your expense.

But the problem is that youre not disagreeing with the idea or position, you just dont like what youre reading so you find one single line which you believe discredits the whole thing. Which is why the two of you are still not convinced that BC2 impact on MW2 can accurately be measured. Common sense, you say?

If youre curious about why do I act as if I had any insight, Ive read through countless of research back when MW2 came out, as people had strange ideas on all platforms. Popular myths like there are more consoles than PCs, PC users dont play videogames, only 1% of PC games are pirated, console piracy has no effect, and so on.

Thats exactly what you do too, Jake.

/I would have to scale this down to one sentence, though, but if I condense it enough, it might come off as an insult. So if you want to keep this up, maybe its best we take it to PMs at some point.

You're so full of yourself that it's disgusting. You constantly speak in a demeaning, condescending and passive aggressive manner as if that will help you win arguments: "you have to be constantly spoonfed to be convinced." You're the only person here who questions people's intelligence and maturity. Have you not noticed that you've written post after post and not convinced anyone of your position? Pretending you're superior to everyone else doesn't make them more willing to accept what you have to say.

Apparently you don't understand the concept of burden of proof either. If YOU make a claim that something is true then YOU have to back it up. Proof is what supports your arguments. Whatever you say is opinion unless you have scientific facts to support them. When we ask for proof we're not being idiots, we're being intelligent and requesting that you prove you arguments. That's not taking things out of context. If you actually think it is, then you you're seriously confused or high.

Perhaps you don't quite understand what I mean by proof. I don't mean writing that "XBL, Steam, and Xfire stats proving this." I mean giving us SCIENTIFIC data that would hold in a law court. It's obvious you've never taken a statistics course in your life or studied the subject independently since you seem to think that xfire is valid proof for drawing claims about the PC community as a whole, which is something that no one presenting a factual argument to a scientific peer-reviewed journal would do. You have absolutely no way of proving that Xfire is a representative sample of the entire PC gaming population, you can't prove what number of people regularly play games on their PCs, how often they do so and how often they switch games.

Instead you constantly obfuscate the argument post after post. As a matter of fact, I have no doubt that you will do exactly that to this post that I'm currently writing.

This whole argument originated because you said that PC gaming was more unified, i.e. "PC gamers switch games less frequently than console gamers do." You have absolutely no evidence backing up your claims. We would be fools to believe you just because you said so.


Finally, I never actually disagreed with you about your initial claims. I just said that you couldn't prove them with what data we have available. But you didn't notice that part because you have a superiority complex and feel the need to put down anyone who seems to put holes in your arguments. You keep writing posts implying that I'm actually taking a stance opposite to you on these issues. I'm not.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

You're so full of yourself that it's disgusting.

I have to be condescending if Im put on the defensive purely because people dont like what they are reading. Case in point-

Apparently you don't understand the concept of burden of proof either.

It doesnt matter if I post figures, number or stats when you start disagreeing with something which cant be disagreed with. You dont really want specific numbers because they dont interest you, youve taken a position and nothing will convince you of otherwise. Its like "debating" with a religious person.

XBL online count of 1.5 million people vs Steam (alone) 1.5-2.0 will not convince you that PC-s are a dominant multiplayer platform. 250M PC-s sold (out of which 50M are gaming-PCs specifically sold and designed as platforms capable of playing top of the line games) annually vs 70M total current gen consoles sold (by year 2008-09) is also not convincing, even though public survey says 85% of PC owners play games on their PC. 30% difference in expenses on videogames vs 50% less games in number will also not matter at all. And lastly, the popularity of titles years and years older than current top sold titles, with an obvious trend seen in two most used softwares to record time spent on gaming doesnt apparenly matter on the mere assumption that not everyone is using them which in turn is assuming that xfire/steam users are completely different in their behaviour and habbits than every other PC gamer.

This all doesnt matter, proof or not, to you. You shrug it off because its not "scientific" but you dont disagree with it either. You take a course in statistics and you completely ignore the fact that even "scientific" studies are never 100% accurate.

Youve apparently completely ignored the entire thread as arguments which support the idea that console users move on faster from games to games than PC users keep piling up. And lastly, once again, the theory is not based on xfire figures, but xfire figures seem to support this idea.

You then accuse me of being arrogant and full of myself, but of course Im going to get defensive if I have to provide proof (available to you to use to either disprove or affirm) to someone who actually doesnt care about the topic. Youve said it yourself, you dont disagree with the idea. Whats the point in linking references and throughally analyzing when you dont even know why youre disagreeing, unless its for a simple reason that youve taken a course in the subject and expect everyone to validate their claims the way your professor taught you to.

And you say Im full of myself?

[EDIT] And lastly, which is hilarious, you claim xfire statistics are not scientific proof of anything, but youre just extending that claim from our argument about why e-polls are not considered scientifically accurate. Xfire data has nothing to do with polls. Its a recording mechanism for time spent on certain games, amusingly in concept similar to the software or "box" used to record the preferences and time spent by an average TV watcher. And that data is then used in scientific studies.

[The_Mad_MoShah]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

This is a great read !

[Minmaster]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

great read for morons.