BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

[imported_Kalo]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

LOL...

Which was my response to your post.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Which was my response to your post.

Is there something you disagree with because you "feel" is wrong, or is there something you disagree with because Im spreading false information and you can disprove my position on a fact-to-fact, argument-to-argument basis?

Or maybe I misunderstood you.

[imported_Kalo]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

'Twas an LOL because every time I see you post it's something informative and well thought out. Some people on these forums need to take a few hints from you.

[Killerus]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

all i know is that this game kicks ***. Who cares what platform has more people.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

'Twas an LOL because every time I see you post it's something informative and well thought out. Some people on these forums need to take a few hints from you.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Theres so much meat around videogamer culture and psychology that one could create a study around it. For example, we might start even considering that the abundance of a55holes on XBL, who would insult anyone at any time, making the gameplay experience worse for everyone involved, is something not associated with consoles at all. MW2 on PC from available videos and feedback sounds very similar to what a lot of us would expect from 13 year old "console kiddies" (so to speak).

Anyway, BC2 with all its flaws and lacks to me as a BF2 fan, might break a few dogmas and set new standards, which is what Im looking forward to hearing about. So lets wait for sales figures and not trust a vague and informal post by a DICE employee without getting all the facts.

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Judging from several different sources, BC2 on PC is by far very successful. People are waiting for a battlefield game for too long, and EA/DICE need some cash to develop BF3.

The reasons that BC2 isn't immediately selling well on consoles are multiple. First is marketing. BC2 is not well marketed for consoles, and the PC gaming circle is different. We don't rely on mass media to tell us what games are coming out. Instead, we seek them out and post them across the web.

One thing I disagree with Chris is that, for every PC game release, there are probably 10 console games released at the same time. Console games are simply more profitable in the past. Most game projects are usually aimed at holiday season for that matter. Nevertheless, the quality of console games have gone down the hill in the past two years. Most major publishers are now milking the remainder life cycle of consoles. Games released in Feb, March are usually suffered from serious delay, otherwise it's better to wait for summer release (when children have free time, parents need to produce diversion). Unless you have a very strict schedule and have a hardcore fan base, such as Creative Assembly's Total War, who will eventually buy the game many years down the road, you need to release a mediocre game at the right time. That is the pattern we've seen in the past two years.

On consoles, BC2 is taken directly in comparison with MW2. Many reviewers apparently prefer MW2 over BC2 on single player, but, generally, praised BC2 for destructible environment and extreme fun and complicated gameplay. On PC, it's different story. I don't agree with every decision that DICE made (we can discuss that in another thread). I understand that there are many compromises that they have to make in order to produce a multi-platform game. However, nay sayers should really play this game on PC before making any judgement. We have too much BF2 vs BF2142 discussion. Utterly pointless, they are all different games, and later ones improves the formers in certain respect. DICE still have to make money before they can persuade EA to approve huge grand on BF3.

The other factor is that a lot of PC gamers are pissed off by Infinity Ward. I know I am one of them. I actually planned to get MW2 but changed my mind, and I believe that many cancelled their order as well.

As for the landscape of PC gaming. A very large chunk are still playing CS, and very slowly moving to CS:S. EA's Sim is still very popular among the other gender, and not to mention the suckers who pay monthly fee for click-click/level-up type of games. We the FPSers are the minority. Sad but true. I am not sure about the scale of RTSers, but I doubt that even RTSers are probably slightly more numerous than FPSers. The cost of developing PC games are too high, and only a handful of success to date. The return is way lower comparing to the console game model. That's why most major publishers pushed for consoles in the past few years. They see that the consoles are way more profitable platforms than PC.

Nevertheless, the situation is migrating. PC gamers are usually more loyal and more hardcore. That's part of our nature. We drove flight sim developers into oblivion with ridiculous expectation. What is the last great modern flight sim? Falcon 4 and Lock On? The only ones that can still survive are IL-2 franchise (who effectively monopolized because none other want to compete in the market), M$FS and other arcade shooters. That was the danger of PC gaming, and the danger does not exist today. The major difference is that money becomes very tight, and wasteful spending is not justifiable to many families. Now they have to come back and placate us. The other reason is that the major publishers have pushed the console model to the hilt, that no major title can draw the crowd anymore. So the game changes.

I hope that EA will have a good and profitable year in 2010. They finally start to do some right things, after years of screwing around by business-major executives, such as bringing back classic sequel to life (C&C series), and switching strategy to support PC gaming. Their reversal on DRM is especially admirable. Other major publishers (Take 2, Activision and the notorious Ubitsoft) keep screwing gamers and studios. Of course Blizzard and Valve remain top dog in the business, but they have business model too successful to duplicate. From what I've observed, EA is the only major "traditional" publisher that changed its strategy so far.

DICE made BC2 a cross-platform game, but it really shines on PC. This is a good start that they under estimated the amount of server slots needed. Let's spread the words and wait for a few months. When summer comes, we will see it becomes great success. Until then, EA should double their marketing efforts.

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

LOL...

COD4 sales on consoles "squished" PC sales 8:1, even though the gaming PCs/laptops sold since the current gen consoles came out outnumber console sales 3:1 (and Im not counting in the non-gaming PC-s which can easily be used for gaming, like mine).



A PC fanboy (which I told you to not to be, and you turned around and proved you were!) is just as detrimental to us gamers as a console fanboy is.



Actually, I am counting in all variables, youre the one who comes off narrowminded, thinking that the unity amongst console gamers is a silly myth. You completely misunderstood my post and youre taking it as an attack on a platform.

The whole point is that even though there are more PC gaming platforms sold, there are so many games on PC, and the gaming community is spread out across those games more than console community is spread across theirs. There are many reasons for this, one of which is hype-driven consumerist approach a lot of console gamers represent. If enough people start raving about a game, a much larger bunch will follow that hype and get the game, compared to the PC crowd, which is why in a multiplatform release, more console gamers will buy a hugely hyped title, compared to the PC crowd. There a massive ammount of variables to account for, but the trend is there.

Which is exactly the reason Im curious about this obvious difference from the norm BC2 represents. Either the game flopped on consoles for reasons we could speculate on, or those dozens of millions of gaming PC owners started buying the game en-masse, and I doubt BC2 PC sales have already exceeded 2M mark (and by a huge margin at that, which is unlikely).

Im a PC gamer through and through, but I like to look at these things from an observant and objective standpoint and not fall to a fanboy-like state where every time "PC" and "console" are used in a sentence, its an immediate attack on one of the two platforms.

So, simmer down.

My favorite part is "Actually, I am counting in all variables". If this was actually true you'd be one of the most valuable people in the gaming industry. You must have some sort of 6th sense, magical ability or a gaming god. You have no idea how many computers are being used for gaming.

Games that require current gen systems are mostly on consoles. The popular pc games are sold in store; have you been to a gaming store lately? The smallest selection is pc games. Yes there are a lot of unheard pc titles you can order online but if you combine all there sales they are minute compared to console sales or the popular pc sales. The statistics for pc gaming just doesn't exist past the popular titles mainly because it isn't important and doesn't use current gen hardware and never has.

The fact that people have a bunch of cheap crappy pc titles to buy isn't an important fact when comparing console sales to pc sales. You have no clue how many of these people are playing a specific popular title that also bought a bunch of random games.

You are the only one that has stated anything about attacking a platform. I have made no such comments nor have I defended a platform.

I just realize that your original comment on unity is wrong. PC Gamers have less games to choose from when it comes to new games. The exact opposite of what you stated is the reason why BC2 has sold so well on the pc.

I just don't see were you get that console gamers are more unified. That is far from the obvious. Consoles are more diverse now than pc has ever been in its complete history.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Avalanche, Ill respond to your post in a bit later as theres a few key arguments I disagree with.

My favorite part is "Actually, I am counting in all variables". If this was actually true you'd be one of the most valuable people in the gaming industry. You must have some sort of 6th sense, magical ability or a gaming god. You have no idea how many computers are being used for gaming.

Theres a specific market niche for "gaming computers" which we can use to compare consoles with, not to mention that theres a huge ammount of PC-s which do run modern games but arent categorized as "gaming platforms". Lets not forget that you directly challenged my argument that console game sales are higher than PC game sales which I disproved in numbers directly proving that you were either lying or you were completely uninformed.

Games that require current gen systems are mostly on consoles.

Prove it, there are a wide variety of multiplatform titles and every time a current gen title was sold on consoles and PC, the console sales were much higher than PC sales. The digital distribution numbers are not available, but this can easily be ignored when we compare multiplayer online player counts at which point the gap between PC and console gamer stats is even greater. Youre talking out of your rear. Theres a large number of PC exclusive titles in current gen and even these are less played and less popular than console exclusive titles.

The popular pc games are sold in store; have you been to a gaming store lately?

Do you even know how retail sales work? Its based on expectations on sales which is directly formed by preorders. The reason you see less PC games on shelves is because theres a much smaller interest in PC games. Again, directly comparable when we take multiplatform titles into account. Even though MW2 was one of the best-selling PC FPS in recent years, its preorders on PC were dwarfed by console versions´. This was time and time again shown when employees from many different game stores gave their insight on what was going on at their workplace when MW2 came out.

You are the only one that has stated anything about attacking a platform. I have made no such comments nor have I defended a platform.

I never attacked a platform, quote me on where I did. I pointed out your obvious lie when you claimed I was wrong about console game sales being higher than PC sales. Now youre using an excuse of mal-stocked gamestores while neglecting the simple and factual law of economics- supply meets demand.

I just realize that your original comment on unity is wrong. PC Gamers have less games to choose from when it comes to new games. The exact opposite of what you stated is the reason why BC2 has sold so well on the pc.

********, have a look at Steam, D2D, Stardock menu, check the releases for PC titles in the last 2 years. A lot of the games are multiplatform, yes, but claiming that we have a small menu of games with malicious stores inhibiting the glory that is the PC gaming is ridiculous and points to you being a fanboy.

And while you claim that "were not accounting in all variables", you have completely ignored the social status of videogaming, effects popculture has on it, piracy and the average tech-ability of a videogamer. These all ultimately stack up to a logical conclusion that PC games sell less than console games and this conclusion is backed up by numbers. Instead, you blame Gamespot and yet still claim that console game sales being higher is a myth. Do some research. Im not claiming one platform is more successful in sales because I prefer that platform, I leave that to the fanboys of that specific platform. This trend harms me just as much as it harms you.

---------- Post added at 05:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 AM ----------

I just don't see were you get that console gamers are more unified. That is far from the obvious. Consoles are more diverse now than pc has ever been in its complete history.

Sh!t, man, I dont know, maybe because I socialize with console gamers, am a member of a community comprised by console gamers at a nearly 90% rate? The way "word of mouth" has an effect in both of these communities, and how it affects sales is completely different for both groups and has been for a very long time. Why do you think literally crappy titles can sell millions on one platform and only rack up a hundred thousand sales on another? As an overall group, console gamers are closely stacked than PC gamers due to its more casual state.

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

I'm not exactly sure where you got confused but all you've done is get further off topic or backup my points that prove console gamers aren't more unified.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

The reasons that BC2 isn't immediately selling well on consoles are multiple. First is marketing. BC2 is not well marketed for consoles, and the PC gaming circle is different. We don't rely on mass media to tell us what games are coming out. Instead, we seek them out and post them across the web.

I disagree. Commercials, reviews, Beta and Demo have been available for consoles. I doubt marketing alone is to blame here.

[EDIT] Definitely something to consider, Ill try so check around on this subject.

One thing I disagree with Chris is that, for every PC game release, there are probably 10 console games released at the same time.

The numbers of AAA titles are very much comparable for all platforms, and for every "arcade" or less prominent title on a console, we have an abundance of similar games via digital distibution. And we can see from statistics on this site-

http://www.vgreleases.com/

That game releases for PC platform is easily comparable to the overall console releases, and actually higher than individual console releases. Again, the minigames released on XBL Arcade or the equivalent on PSN should similarily be comparable to similar minigames on PC via either mods, free releases and digital distribution.

Console games are simply more profitable in the past.

Piracy on consoles can be very high aswell, but considering how games on consoles are seen as entertainment products literally, its basically mass-goods, which means that console gamers are more likely to buy a game with lesser quality than a PC gamer will. Thats the simplified description of what I think the market looks like. But in reality, all you need to do is just troll around specific communities like say- CAPCOM-Europe, Bungie, you get the jist. In simple terms, people tend to look at and accept games on completely different standards.

Most game projects are usually aimed at holiday season for that matter.

Just like that blockbuster release you take your girlfriend/boyfriend to

The other factor is that a lot of PC gamers are pissed off by Infinity Ward. I know I am one of them. I actually planned to get MW2 but changed my mind, and I believe that many cancelled their order as well.

However, MW2 is the most played Steam game right now, and has been for months. The fact that the hardcore PC community was pissed at MW2 amazingly, shockingly and surprisingly (Im being sincere) had little effect on its popularity. It sold more than MW1, its being played more and BC2 effects so far on its playerbase is at around 20%. This is an entirely different subject, though, which I would be interested in discussing.

The cost of developing PC games are too high, and only a handful of success to date. The return is way lower comparing to the console game model. That's why most major publishers pushed for consoles in the past few years. They see that the consoles are way more profitable platforms than PC.

On single player games, yes. Multiplayer games are not affected by piracy as much (potentially) as you have a wider variety of tools against it. In terms of BC2, we might see an emerging thread where central player and game authentification meets dedicated servers, yet does not allow for any means for piracy to be an alternative in multiplayer mode.

DICE made BC2 a cross-platform game, but it really shines on PC. This is a good start that they under estimated the amount of server slots needed. Let's spread the words and wait for a few months. When summer comes, we will see it becomes great success. Until then, EA should double their marketing efforts.

Im afraid the quality of the PC version has little effect on its popularity for console gamers, illustrated by how COD4 console sales dwarfed PC sales, even though the PC version of COD4 was the best multiplayer game Ive come across, in terms of quality, balance, functionality and accomodation for clans, communities and individual gamers.

---------- Post added at 06:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 AM ----------

I'm not exactly sure where you got confused but all you've done is get further off topic or backup my points that prove console gamers aren't more unified.

Take it this way. A Battlefield fan is less likely to move between CS and BF2, when HALO fans were moving between HALO, GOW and COD with no problem. You can use xfire stats on individual PC gamers pages to confirm this. A PC gaming community is a splintered group of gamers, each in their own corner, a console gaming community is much less splintered. The term "unified" doesnt apply to a group of gamers having a common goal in mind, but rather having less problems with ditching their favourite franchises to try others. This might sound as if Im accusing PC gamers of being elitists and fanboys of their respective favourite franchises, but thats not the case. The reasons for sticking to something are mostly objective. We know what we want, and we can churn out thousands of hours of fun out of it if we get it. There are a large number of reasons for us not moving on to newer games as fast as an average console gamer does, one of which are the ties to clans and communities which as an organization is less able to change on a whim.

---------- Post added at 06:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 AM ----------

I'm not exactly sure where you got confused but all you've done is get further off topic or backup my points that prove console gamers aren't more unified.

Take it this way. A Battlefield fan is less likely to move between CS and BF2, when HALO fans were moving between HALO, GOW and COD with no problem. You can use xfire stats on individual PC gamers pages to confirm this. A PC gaming community is a splintered group of gamers, each in their own corner, a console gaming community is much less splintered. The term "unified" doesnt apply to a group of gamers having a common goal in mind, but rather having less problems with ditching their favourite franchises to try others. This might sound as if Im accusing PC gamers of being elitists and fanboys of their respective favourite franchises, but thats not the case. The reasons for sticking to something are mostly objective. We know what we want, and we can churn out thousands of hours of fun out of it if we get it. There are a large number of reasons for us not moving on to newer games as fast as an average console gamer does, one of which are the ties to clans and communities which as an organization is less able to change on a whim.

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

So when you said PC gamers you meant a PC community. When you said unity you meant diversity.

Like I said you aren't including all the variables like age factor.

Xfire users are playing more BFBC2.

[jake_]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Xfire statistics could hardly be considered scientific data. Not everyone uses xfire. I don't usually when I'm playing games because I use Steam for most everything I play online. Do we know what percentage of PC gamers run xfire constantly when playing games? Do we know if that sample (xfire users) is representative of the whole population of PC gamers?

I'm not getting involved in any actual arguments here about who's right or wrong, just pointing something out I thought about while doing some lurking. :)

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Xfire users are playing more BFBC2.

What is wrong with you two, haha. Its like, when I mentioned xfire, you found it important to make sure to claim that not everyone uses xfire, completely disregarding the context of the message.

"In modern times we have PC-s, consoles..."

"A-HA! CONSOLES! YOU GOD DAMN FANBOY! GTFO!"

Hahaha.

---------- Post added at 07:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 AM ----------

So when you said PC gamers you meant a PC community. When you said unity you meant diversity.

Like I said you aren't including all the variables like age factor.

Semantics. Youre nitpicking.

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Xfire statistics could hardly be considered scientific data. Not everyone uses xfire. I don't usually when I'm playing games because I use Steam for most everything I play online. Do we know what percentage of PC gamers run xfire constantly when playing games? Do we know if that sample (xfire users) is representative of the whole population of PC gamers?

I'm not getting involved in any actual arguments here about who's right or wrong, just pointing something out I thought about while doing some lurking. :)

Exactly why I only stated xfire users and didn't go on to act like it was important like chris with with

You can use xfire stats on individual PC gamers pages to confirm this

or

However, MW2 is the most played Steam game right now, and has been for months. The fact that the hardcore PC community was pissed at MW2 amazingly, shockingly and surprisingly (Im being sincere) had little effect on its popularity. It sold more than MW1, its being played more and BC2 effects so far on its playerbase is at around 20%. This is an entirely different subject, though, which I would be interested in discussing.

And back to this Chris

Lets not forget that you directly challenged my argument that console game sales are higher than PC game sales which I disproved in numbers directly proving that you were either lying or you were completely uninformed.

I'm the one that brought up pc gaming sales being lower than console sales. You are just all around confused man.

[jake_]

Re: BFBC2 is a WIN for PC!

Take it this way. A Battlefield fan is less likely to move between CS and BF2, when HALO fans were moving between HALO, GOW and COD with no problem. You can use xfire stats on individual PC gamers pages to confirm this.

Xfire statistics could hardly be considered scientific data. Not everyone uses xfire. I don't usually when I'm playing games because I use Steam for most everything I play online. Do we know what percentage of PC gamers run xfire constantly when playing games? Do we know if that sample (xfire users) is representative of the whole population of PC gamers?

I'm not getting involved in any actual arguments here about who's right or wrong, just pointing something out I thought about while doing some lurking. :)

What is wrong with you two, haha. Its like, when I mentioned xfire, you found it important to make sure to claim that not everyone uses xfire, completely disregarding the context of the message.

You said you could prove this claim (A Battlefield fan is less likely to move between CS and BF2) with xfire stats. I said you couldn't. What's out of context?

I'm not even saying that I'm not in agreement with you.