Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

[Rambo]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Still don't know what you mean by "faster." I do a lot of ground pounding so - it was pretty fast.

I was playing Mashturr (sp?) and we kept capping all the flags except for two or so. Led to some pretty awesome infantry engagements in the hills... I hope BC2's conquest is like that haha.

I will try to explain this but it wont be easy lol.

I too play alot of Grunt IO work,BF2 seems faster in a friendlier way eg.Sniping you can duck aim and shoot pretty quick(infact every aspect seems quicker from changing weapons to rego)(interface seems easier too)

Now BC2 is fast but in a hectic sort of way,Its not the shooting and movement that are fast but the bombs,exposions and smaller maps that croud alot of action into a confined space:cry:.

I really think it was made for 12 vs 12 and would be better for it:thumbsup:.Ideally if it had bigger maps i recon the game would come up a couple of notches in my opinion.

I am interested in what the IO BC2 play will be like and it may be better or more my cup of tea.Maybe its all rush mode i dont like so much?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

I did play BC1 on single player, for the story, I tried a couple of multiplayer matches, but it didn't feel right, not the game mode; the overall feeling.
I did originally dismiss BC2 as yet another iteration of the consolized Battlefield that couldn't pull it off, for whatever reason.

Ive been dismissing BFBC2 for one reason only. Its made by DICE. I knew right from the start that it wasnt going to be a BF sequel. However, remember that this particular thread is about critical people being dismissed as insignificant whiners because they supposedly dont get what they want, which is a complete package that would shock and awe people like some of the early titles did. The whole idea "you people" have, about "us" wanting a BF2 copy is completely off the base. What "we" want is to be blown away. And that can be achieved. Its not a fanboy dream of once againt sweating and waking up at 3AM because your subconscious is still wired from last nights epic rounds. But thats something Ive grown to recognize in a very well done game.

I did enjoy BF2's premise, enjoyed BF2142 gameplay a lot more; same sandbox experience, better balance between kits and weapons, wider variety between styles of playing due to unlocks.

You described infantry combat. Ive been a long time proponent for completely free loadout option based on space/weight and primary/secondary weapons. BF2142 is a step to that direction. But at the same time, the Battlefield games have turned into incredibly forgiving, limiting games which have become irritating experiences. Compare fluid and free motion in Call of Duty 4 to any current BF game (including BF2v1.5, night and day next to v1.0). You can jump and dive, be prone in grass or hidden behind god knows what props on the map. Did it break the game? Did it separate hitboxes from the models? Did it slow the game down due to camping or affect hit detection? It didnt. Its limitations are set without being irritating and limiting, the game feels smooth, fast, solid, reliable. Thats how indantry combat should be. Even jump-crouching over low obstacles feels incredibly immersive.

Cue in to BF2 post 1.2 and BF2142, youre running in mud, every stance change is paired with a long cooldown or pause. Two BF players meet up midstreet, they both crouch and start pummeling at each other, hoping that their accuracy cooldown or random cone of fire will favour them. You might think BF infantry combat is its strongest point? Up until BF2142 it wasnt. Ever. And infantry combat isnt better in BF2142 because it made a revolutionary jump. Its better because vehicular combat is limited by even worse principles and frankly sucks.

Download and install of BC2 PC beta. I was astonished at the polish of the code since it came from DICE. You can clearly feel the difference between different weapons, kit loadouts do change the way you have to move on the field of battle, registratiion of hits is way better than last retail patches for BF2 and 2142 over the internet.

I have absolutely no doubt its true. But people have always felt difference between kits. And registration is significantly better in infantry combat because infantry combat is significantly slower. Which is partially why hit registration is so much better in PR than it is in vBF2.

On deraild topic: Vehicles feel just right, if you have any experience manngin them from previous titles, it shows.

If vehicles felt just right, everyone would use every vehicle on the map. In BF2, you were often hard pressed to find a buggy. As for your long post on balance between armor and infantry. Heres my first round.

I spawn, land on a chute. See the tank and multiple vehicles standing in the spawn, people are running into the action on foot and I already see s few snipers. I hop into what appears to be an anti-air platform, an APC with an anti-air turret on top. I check its primary weapons, seems to be some odd grenade launcher which set a lot of dust off. Saw my first objective and went in, using the buildings as cover to not to face a tank (except there wasnt any). Suddenly, I saw a sniper crossing the street in front of me, I let loose from the primary, trying to nail him straight in, and use a little distance-time compensation. Saw a lot of positive hitmarks. Naturally he escaped. Few seconds later, hes again, in front of me, 5 metres ahead, between a plank fence and other obstacles I could use to deflect splash damage against him, as weve all learned from BF2. I must have sunk 10 rounds into him, and he was standing. I thought "**** it, hes a sniper, I leave him alone". Hopped on the turret, saw two guys on the second floor of a building, completely open, I let loose at them, hitting 3 times each, at least, from what seemed to be a 20 mm anti-air gun making loud noises. They ran for cover, and for the next 30 seconds I was hitting them and they ran, the procedure was repeated several times. Then I get killed by that earlier sniper with C4 charges.

I was confused. Checked my ping, it was 30ms.

In contrast, if I would be in a Linebacker, and a sniper would be foolish enough to step in the open, he would be dead. This game is so forgiving. You call it fun, I say if I happen to play it someday, Im going to be playing infantry. Not because I find it more fun, but because I find vehicles to be just big targets going around, "balanced" perfectly to give everyone a "fair" (50/50) chance against them despite players skill level or ones tactical misjudgement.

I would rather invest 50 hours into a game before I get a hang of it and start passing that magical 1:1 KDR, and be worried every time I saw armor coming at my location, than to be ready to roll in an hour and only worrying about the guy with the gun and my hit detection. Has nothing to do with elitism. Its the overall decline in learning curve in all modern games.

This is the compromise I'm talking about. Risk vs Reward, that I don't feel BF2 has.

There is no risk if you can easily cross the street in BFBC2 in front of armor. In BF2, if you wanted to relocate in front of armor, you would not survive that machine gun. Relocation to a better position (reward) was met with certain death (risk) if you didnt know the map and didnt know how those things operate (learning curve/ skill/ experience).

Both ways. In a tank, if you rushed a flag full of defenders, you were done. A push with infantry support and no armor to back the defenders up meant they were done. Thats how the game works. There are winners and there are losers, and then there are things you cant do anything about if youre not prepared. Thats Battlefield (tm) immersion. You know the game is awesome when you hear your squadmates elevate their voice upon approach of a tank and asking frantically about whos going to change their kit.

Chris I commend you on acknowledging there are problems with Vanilla BF2; most vehicle operators I've talked too just dismiss you as a player lacking "skill" to take them down.

I adressed skill. "If you cant take a jet down in STA, you have no skill" holds perfectly true, except that there are certain reasons why people arent investing any time in those Stinger sites, and those reasons are perfectly valid.

I do think however, that mods are not a solution; and that the game should be better right off th ebox.

My whole point is that if a group of Battlefield fans can fix a game up perfectly (I mean, from infantry to artillery), a 300-strong group of professionals who get paid for their job, should too. Unfortunately they cant, and if you think the game is perfect based on your experience as an infantry player, and your lack of experience in vehicular aspect in the past games, then I cant agree with you. You think infantry combat is better than in previous games, and I respect with that opinion and even agree with it to some extent. But is it any good? Mods and other games have shown that its not the case.

Patches should be relegated to fine tuning, not complete overhauls; I think DICE will be able to pull it off this time unless they drastically want to change basic game design.

BFBC2 represents their patching philosophy with BF2142 and BF2. Which is precisely why Im not holding my breath.

Long time BF fans, playing through BF1942, BF:V, BF2 and to some extent BF2142 were expecting BFBC2 to keep their interests and fandom in mind. BFBC2 is a combined arms game, advertised to hold the same kind of "perfect" Battlefield experience. And until 2007, DICE was the only professional group being able to emulate the power differences between vehicles and infantry, while making every vehicle make the player feel the potential, power, handling as their perception of the real thing was. BF2142 couldnt do it, BC2 hasnt done it, ETQW couldnt do it. Didnt play enough of FFOW to remember, sadly.

And you really are 3 years late, these discussions were held on a daily basis back in 2006 and 2007. TBF2 pretty much went through every issue, solving every problem "on paper". One of the solutions for example was disabling the "ID boxes" on jets HUD against STA sites and throw in one Mobile STA for every two jets on each map.

Jets presence could have been easily fixed by making it so each flyby over the runway would resupply the jet partially. One pass for one bomb, 100 rounds of ammo and two missiles.

There were a ton of these.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

I'm pretty sure DICE can achieve on PC what they've done with the console version in terms of netcode; the final product will be very different from what you experienced on the beta; and it's very good gameplay overall.

I'm not that naive to think that they can't ruin it like they've done in the past; but what gives me a bit of hope is the fact that console programming is not as relaxed as PC coding; you have to get your game almost perfect the first time aorund, since implementing patches, even on the current consoles is not always feasible since you lack a install folder to tweak things; maybe this kind of pressure is what DICE needed to step up again, now that they have more direct competition.

I sincerely hope I get to see you in BC2 PC one of these days; it's a good direction for BF3 on the programming side.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Probably. Lets see what happens after the release. Maybe BC2 will rejuvenate the community and well get a lot of opinions from all sides of the battlefield, if that will peak my interest, Im in.

Will there be a BC2 Demo on PC?

[jake_]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

I don't know, maybe operation shingle and wake? Those got released with 1.50 I think, haven't found a Wake server yet, but I been playing Shingle lately.

I was pretty sure there were new ones coming out with the latest patch. I'll try to find some info on it maybe.

I played Wake a few times back when I was still playing 2142 a lot, but yes it was hard to find a server running it. I thought it was a fun map and really interesting lay out and all, but Shingle was just plain awesome imo. It was like a Camp Gib 2.0 or better: well placed points, plenty of terrain variation, lot's of open and CQB space, etc.


edit:
Ah here we go

That map, which we have called Operation Blue Pearl, will appear in the upcoming Battlefield 2 Update 1.50 and Battlefield 2142 Update 1.51.

http://www.battlefield.ea.com/battle...&storyid=42226

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Will there be a BC2 Demo on PC?

There is suppose to be. I personally do not think so since they shut down the "demos" on the consoles.

Crunch

[Rambo]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Im sure there will be a after release demo to try lure the critics and non BF fans.

[jimykx]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

There is suppose to be. I personally do not think so since they shut down the "demos" on the consoles.

Crunch

Well i think they stopped the demos becase they wanted people to stop playing it and buy the game if they actually wanted to play it. I remember in bf2142, game was already out for long and there was still lots of people playing the demo xD.

Ah an by the way, if you dont mind could you check my post in community submissions/news?. thank you xD

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Yes, and BF2142 demo was neutered since it had no unlocks, made it very difficult to defend the titan once the shields were down; it wasn't representative of what the final product would be.

At any rate, you should really try it; we'll get videos for Chris past day one patch

The vehicles in the console demos handled very differently from the PC beta; they are more responsive at least.