Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Personal Thoughts

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Personal Thoughts

    Forgive me if I have become the only person on these forums who fails to cheer at every new MW2 multiplayer video released by IW, but somebody has to be that person.

    To prevent a full-blown rant, I'll run through my points as briefly and thoroughly as possible. Feel free to agree or disagree, but understand that you won't be able to argue me out of my positions.

    Introduction: A brief background of my gaming experience, skip if you want but it may give you some better insight into my post.

    I'll admit it, I used to be an avid hardcore player. When I started playing the game I often frequented hardcore servers of 25+ people with my silenced M4 using my trusty double tap and steady aim. I thought I knew the game and I believed with all my heart that hardcore was how it should be played. From there I moved on to play TWL with a hardcore team - still holding the sentiment that hardcore brought out the true skill of a player. It wasn't until a good friend of mine - Assassin (now bquick on Hostile Team 1) - pulled me aside and brought me to regular competition. Granted, I was completely awful and hated it at the start, and like many I felt like players wouldn't die and nearly gave up on the game.

    However, being a gamer at heart, I persisted and eventually played alongside him in Team 1 Gaming and then Betrayed for CAL, as well as various other teams. I began to understand the various gameplay mechanics, how to outplay others, and most importantly how to actually think about my actions and coordinate with a team. Since then I've moved through various teams, playing in CAL, CEVO, XPL, TGL and am now finally settled in a sponsored team.

    Onto the meat of the post...

    Perks: A few months ago I spoke with Whiskey about the whole perk system, and how I felt it was broken from the start. I'm fine with perks being available, but I have two major problems with the system. Firstly, there needs to be a mode with "stock" perks, meaning basic wall penetration and moderate stopping power - this includes no attachments, no excessive grenades. Secondly, the 'easy' perks need to be removed - these include juggernaut, martyrdom, 3x frag/secondary, dead silence, as well as a few others.
    These only make the game easier for players and do not encourage them to get better, as the perks make up for their lack of skill and game knowledge.
    In fact, it would even be OK to have these perks if the community was mature enough to understand how they inhibit gameplay. I can see new players using martyrdom to try to stay positive or juggernaut to help them with they're initially poor reactions and aim - but once you become comfortable with the game you should recognize that you don't need those crutches.

    Kill Streaks: In my opinion, your reward for getting X amount of kills should be, well, getting X kills. Because you are good enough to perform such a feat you should feel proud of that achievement - but the game itself should not directly reward you for being good, rather force you to be good.

    Weapons: Those familiar with quality Call of Duty 4 gameplay (glares at those who play 32 man killhouse or hardcore) know that while the weapons don't have as high of a skill ceiling as other games (CS, Quake, etc.) there is still a clear skill gap among players. The major [accepted] weapons (i.e. AK47, AK74u, M40/R700, etc.) do have recoil, but is controllable and it takes at least some practice to become proficient with them.
    My fear, which has been reaffirmed by various videos, is that the majority of weapons will lack recoil and remind players of weapons like the RPD and the M4 (also known as the laser). Also, special grenades like the stun grenade should be removed, or at the very least toned down considerably. The ability for an opposing player to stun you (which, remember, stuns are thrown much faster than flashes and explode on impact) and then either easily kill you or throw a cooked grenade at your feet is utterly ridiculous. Again, special grenades such as this - as well as weapons with very low recoil - do not encourage players to improve but rather make do with what they have, and this concept proves that we are heading in the wrong direction.

    Gameplay Mechanics: I'll begin with a quick example - perks such as dead silence remove a crucial gameplay element, and that is sound and how it relates to movement. For example, in competition if you wish to make it silently to the bomb site you are forced to crouch or at the very least use smokes/flashes and sound for cover. Dead silence removes that mechanic, as you can achieve [near] silence while still running, where in a more balanced game you would have to sacrifice your speed to achieve that stealth.

    Conclusion: I'm trying to clarify the fact that I, as well as many others, are sick of players being rewarded for meaningless things - and this whole new death streak system (as well as the continuation of death-related or easy-kill perks) only hurts the game more. I used to be a player who wanted silencers on all guns and sweet perks, but once I understood how much fun the game can be when played properly I realized how detrimental these new gimmicks are to gameplay. I understand that many players do not have the time to play the game enough to get very skilled - but the game should not cater to those players and it is.

    Finally, for those who don't understand what I'm talking about - please, try to play a 5v5 SD match or at least play in a server with 20 people or less on a good map (Crash, Strike, Crossfire) and you'll come to realize how fun the game can really be when you're not being constantly killed by grenades, stuns, kill streaks, and no recoil weapons.

    I have to head out to class, I will finish this post up later, but this should be enough to start a reasonable discussion.

  • #2
    Re: Personal Thoughts

    I completely agree for one.

    IW is rewarding mediocrity, simples. Of course it will take a bit of skill to get to know the weapons and such but CoD4 is an easy game, if your aim isn't very good there's a perk for that. If you die a lot there's a perk for that. If you just spam bullets down chokepoints, there's a perk for that. Hardcore mode doesn't help either, dying to two bullets of anything doesn't encourage anything other than poor aim and sitting still which really is a bad habit in any game other than CoD4.

    This is something that the more casual players couldn't care less about - they just want as many gadgets and "rewards" as they can in the game so they have something to work towards. Unfortunately this is bad news for those that look a bit more competitively at their gaming, wanting to improve their game and have fun while trying to get better. CoD4 rather effectively puts a skillcap on top of everything, it doesn't matter if you have godlike reflexes or whatever, the game is eventually going to punish you for being to good at one time or another. An airstrike out of nowhere. Enemy UAV going 24/7. Some guy with Dead Silence completely bypassing another very important skill aspect, sound.

    It's not really until you play against decent players that you realize how badly most public players not only play but think. As long as the kills come rolling in, they don't want to do anything to "get better". Hence the massive demand for TDM servers, there doesn't exist a less teamwork and skill demanding game mode in CoD4. Spawn with weapon of choice and spam away. No thinking required (other than to find good camping spots, but there's Youtube for that).

    It's good that IW attracts new and more casual players but they took it too far personally.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Personal Thoughts

      There is a major, massive problem with the original post and that is the fact that with competitive experience, one has forgotten that 95% (random percentage) or even 99% (now that COD4 competitive scene is dying) of action is held in PUBLIC servers. And that pretty much alone overthrows all of your points, Defekt (Im embarassed, but what was your very first name on TBF?, because I dont remember, and calling you "Defekt" is odd).

      COD4 is amazingly well balanced for public play and thats great. Whats even better is the fact that competitive mods take care of all the needs competitive players have. Even though it took a while for Promod 4final to come out, the process of sorting out the right perks and settings is now clear and it will take considerably less time to do the same for MW2.

      So, I find it rather odd that a competitive player has forgotten the basics of this game and why it was so great in the first place. Exceptional balance and well thought out pub play. Instead, you come across as someone who would rather see the public play pushed to become something you like in competitive mods. Theres a clean line between the two and while I appreciate Promod, patching COD4 down to its level would immediately kill the variety (which is extremely necessary, considering the similar technical use for most weapons) and different techniques used in public play. In short, Promod is not necessary for pub play for COD4, as it would be necessary for BF2.

      Perks-
      Perks: A few months ago I spoke with Whiskey about the whole perk system, and how I felt it was broken from the start. I'm fine with perks being available, but I have two major problems with the system. Firstly, there needs to be a mode with "stock" perks, meaning basic wall penetration and moderate stopping power - this includes no attachments, no excessive grenades. Secondly, the 'easy' perks need to be removed - these include juggernaut, martyrdom, 3x frag/secondary, dead silence, as well as a few others.
      AKA, youre talking about Promod which will be available to the general public sooner than it was for COD4. You also havent made any points nor made it clear as to "why" exactly, or "how" it would make public play better. Then theres the problem with "easy perks". No such thing. Stopping Power negates juggernaut and most good players already play with Stopping Power. If it was a case where one was using "Overkill" and another player used, say... "Sleigh of hand", the firefight would look exactly like one between "Juggernaut" and "Stopping Power". Martydom is a serious issue in HC mode, not in SC, but HC is so broken that it already has several of its own topics here. Most of the "easy" perks youve listed add seriously needed variety to the game as most of the weapons require no "specific" skill of their own. On top of that, almost all of those perks are well balanced and youll see most of them being used in public play.

      These only make the game easier for players and do not encourage them to get better, as the perks make up for their lack of skill and game knowledge.
      Not true. As a matter of fact, the only perk in the game that would do that, technically, would be Stopping Power, as the ammount of time one is required to hold those sights on a target, will be reduced, considerably. Sure, 3X grenades, claymores and Iron Lungs can be seen as "newbie" perks, but would there be complaining if the "victims" actually worked hard on their own skillset to render those perks useless? Claymores are countered with Bombsquad, 3x nades are countered with timing and timed pushes, and so forth. In pub play, theres no "noob perks", no "autoperks" that immediately make you into an awesome player. In pub play, theres only people who would rather complain than to counter.

      I can see new players using martyrdom to try to stay positive or juggernaut to help them with they're initially poor reactions and aim - but once you become comfortable with the game you should recognize that you don't need those crutches.
      Doesnt this make perfect sense and isnt it how this actually *should* work?

      -

      [EDIT]

      I have a whole truckload of problems with MW2 and none of them are what youve listed. In fact, I see the game tear an even bigger cap between great, ordinary and bad players. COD4 is closer to Quake 3 than to SWAT4, and this means that someone with godlike reflexes will be unbeatable for someone who is a tad smarter, but lacks in raw technical skill.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Personal Thoughts

        Well written dude. This arcade style really kills what Call of Duty use to be.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Personal Thoughts

          Oh damn Chris is back (name was Aerialz btw)

          I do agree with some of the things you say, but I won't bother to go through and respond to each point individually however, as I just had a long day at school.

          I'll quote my xfire:

          [17:30] Foxhound|RED / Mr Brooks: So. My position is that while competitive players know what they are talking about, "less is more" does not apply to COD4, because its exceptionally well balanced and considering the fact that weapons lack their own "personality" and required skill, the game has variety in form of perks. You disagree?
          [17:30] Foxhound|RED / Mr Brooks: Whats up with the new clan? Which leagues do you play in?
          [17:32] FYC | DEFEKT: Less is more though, when you play without cooked nades, without perks, etc. it boils down to who has the smarts and skills to outplay the other team. There is variety among guns (to an extent) - not as much as there should be, but they shouldn't be adding variety in the form of perks. And my new team, well, it's not new we've just been changing sponsors lately - we play TGL, XPL, we are playing in the Alienware tournament and we will possibly LAN if MW2 takes off.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Personal Thoughts

            You are not the only one on this Defekt. Ive mentioned the old school options before and having more control on admin features on the server many times.

            W@W is way better balanced than 4. Im sorry, it is and there is no way to deny it. You cant, dont bother trying.

            The new CoDs were/are designed for a console environment. The maps are not made for more than 20 to 28 players. CoD is going for shock and awe and change every time value. The more options, features, changes that happen every time you play makes you play more and gets your ADD mind wrapped around it.

            I think there may be too much in this game. Yeah, its all pretty cool, but I dont know if it all is cool at once.

            We will see.

            Crunch
            Twitter: @CptainCrunch
            Battlelog/Origin: CptainCrunch

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Personal Thoughts

              I've not read through all the posts yet, but I think the "easy" perks should only be available for low ranks... like as soon as you get promoted to say a Sgt - then it removes one or two of those "easy" perks from your classes and puts on a different one that's available from the start...

              I think having it like this would help new players get into the game with these "crutches" but then it removes them once they have killed enough players and completed enough objectives/challenges...

              Although, there is always the other side of this, in which people will defend "easy" perks and claim that "well since you're not using the easy perks, you should be more skilled then me and kill me, but look I'm top on the server, so you must not be that good, why don't you pick an easy perk like me till you get better?"

              It would be great if there was stock server options to limit the "easy" perks per side, so you don't end up having 10+ players with martydom... I'm sure no one really wants to see a 64 man shipment server with martydom and x3 Nades for MW2...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Personal Thoughts

                Just watched a couple of previews and hands-ons, and theres so much stuff, its mindboggling. Some are on the verge of possibly creating a lot of problems. For example, the "Tactical insertion" flare, which when thrown at a location, will let you spawn at that location next time. They are also talking about "Pro perks", which will increase the efficiency of your perk when 1000 kills have been achieved. And of course, infinite run-time and faster running. Its deep, yeah, but how will it all be balanced?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Personal Thoughts

                  Chris!!!! Will read thread later must go, but Chris!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Personal Thoughts

                    Haha you can't find a discussion like this on TBF2.

                    Frankly this is all tl; dr at 7:30 in the morning but I'll get to it later.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Personal Thoughts

                      Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
                      Just watched a couple of previews and hands-ons, and theres so much stuff, its mindboggling. Some are on the verge of possibly creating a lot of problems. For example, the "Tactical insertion" flare, which when thrown at a location, will let you spawn at that location next time. They are also talking about "Pro perks", which will increase the efficiency of your perk when 1000 kills have been achieved. And of course, infinite run-time and faster running. Its deep, yeah, but how will it all be balanced?
                      Infinite run time? That's definitely going to be an issue in my mind.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Personal Thoughts

                        Another one of the major problems for me is going to be the fact that all these perks are like putting the hacks in the game for everyone to use. How long is it going to be until we cant tell the difference between a guy who is using perks and a guy who is just simply hacking?

                        Btw, good read OP, +rep

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Personal Thoughts

                          All this text burns my eyes!!!!!

                          Anywho, after reading ALL of it (yes, ALL) I have to agree on pretty much most things. And it gives me a suggestion to put forward: Possibly have servers that allow the Admin to enable/disable perks and kill streaks and all the crap that is just FREAKING UNNECESSARY!!!!

                          yeh!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Personal Thoughts

                            If less is more, shouldn't instagib UT2k4 be the best game mode ever?

                            Personally, I played Dodgeball more. (#1 on CSports.net until I got deployed)
                            That was pretty minimalistic, too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Personal Thoughts

                              I think it works both ways. There is nothing wrong with adding new things and improving on design, but you have to keep things functional and think, "Do I really need to add a graphic on the center of the screen that looks like a name tag of who I killed?" I dont need to know who I killed, I just want them dead.

                              If others need to know, thats fine, just give me an option to disable that little part. I think its more about options. Make some things mandatory and things that dont really matter an option.

                              Crunch
                              Twitter: @CptainCrunch
                              Battlelog/Origin: CptainCrunch

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X