Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Yes, if the rocket was unguided and faster.

This is akin to asking for two improvements. So, yes... we'll integrate Stopping Power on the AK47 only if it's given Double Tap as well. Excuse me for using a COD4 analogy.

That's just asinine at worst... greedy at the very least.

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Yes, if the rocket was unguided and faster.

[imported_JayZ]

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Yes, but only if the repair rate on the chopper pad is increased. So that it would require two Eryx/SRAWs minimum to take out a newly spawned and constantly repairing chopper. Providing suffecient time to get airborne.

My rationale:
1) As others have already stated, it takes sufficient skill to hit a chopper-in-flight and should be rewarded with that damage level.
2) Skilled pilots would have no cause for concern. They should already be tacticaly aware and evade.
3) The transport HMG and static AAA sites are not sufficient and not always available. Skilled chopper crews usually take them out before even approaching a flag. Rendering the infantry that spawn there virtually defenseless. This situation worsens when your team has no air cover because of ineffective team pilots. Or if your team lost your airfield flag to the enemy at the beginning of the match by a quick rush of a skilled enemy squad. Which results in a continual airborne obliteration at the remaining flags, especially for infantry who have NO defense. MANPADS like portable short-range stingers would have been ideal, but wishful thinking at this point, so a middle ground like that proposed by the OP is ideal.

Sloi has a point about players wanting easy solo insta-kills, but the requirement for some sort of defence for the mobile infantry is just too great in this case. :thumbsup:

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

So Heli's get flair which helps em escape a critical hit but when a heli is aiming at you... you get sprayed the hell out. I think it should be like that seeing how it's so hard to pull off 2 stinger attempts because the first one will always most likely be flaired away. Personally I've never had problems with getting hit while in air.

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

god forbid anyone should suggest making anything balanced in BF2. If helis can get one shot TV's that they can fire from 300 m away why can't people on the ground get the same kind of fire power?

Insert comment from Sloi "here" :laugh:

I've conveyed my thoughts on the subject. I won't be goaded into an argument :)

[Wizrdwarts]

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

I take my first post back, I don't think a single AT rocket should set a chopper on fire. It would just make the learning curve steeper for choppers and most good pilots already know not to fly low or slow enough to get hit by AT rockets.

Instead:
Increase damage of AT rocket against chopper to 75-85%
Tank shells damage chopper to the minimum to set it on fire (TOWs already do that, right?)
and/or (I'll probably get a lot of complaining over this one)
Reduce TV missile damage so that it only sets tanks/APCs on fire. (or even so that it takes a rocket or a few chaingun rounds to start it burning) It shouldn't be a problem for a competent crew or a good soloer. Just give the armor guys a chance to escape.

[old sch00l]

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Heli "rape" in myeyes means, 2x competant players, not a solo, who is hardly going to try strafe rape.

Don't bring the solo aspect (unintended), only confuses things. :nod:

[Killerus]

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

god forbid anyone should suggest making anything balanced in BF2. If helis can get one shot TV's that they can fire from 300 m away why can't people on the ground get the same kind of fire power?

Insert comment from Sloi "here" :laugh:

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Sorry, that "logic" might appear valid at first glance, but it's superficial at best. And on top of that, it's only tangentially related.

It was also mostly facetious, as Wizrdwarts alluded to.

Soloing is a genuine technique that requires real skill to be performed competently. In effect, I'm taking a "two shot"* system and using my knowledge and expertise to perform all of the actions alone.

I won't argue that much, as I'm sure you spent a great deal of time learning how to be successful at soloing. At the same time, however, do (or did, as I see you're still retired) you routinely get hit by AT missiles while doing so? Was getting tagged by AT a very common occurrence in general in your chopper-playing experience? I can understand being harassed by jets as well as dueling with other helis, but how much of a threat did AT pose? I play air maps all the time, usually from the ground perspective, and I seldom see helis fall victim to AT. Usually they get destroyed by being TVed by another heli. Most heli pilots stay far enough away from the ground that they're too far away to feasibly take out with an AT shot, especially given their relatively erratic motions and small, somewhat fast-moving hitboxes. The Mi-28 is the easiest attack heli to hit due to its size and overall maneuverability, but the Z-10 and especially the Cobra can be almost impossible to hit unless they're hovering or flying in a straight predictable line.

And believe me, I try to nail helis with AT all the time. I probably shoot more AT at helis than I do at ground vehicles, although granted this is due to me facing helis more often than I do ground vehicles.

Similarly, get good enough with an Eryx and movement/concealment, and your problems will disappear. No reason to further cripple the helicopter to suit the ground masses. Hell, I do it often and I practically never play on the ground.

Why can't the "dedicated" infantrymen do it?

AT missiles and the smoke trail they leave are almost impossible to conceal. You can stay hidden in tall ferns or inside buildings and the chopper may not see you until you shoot one rocket, then your cover is blown and the heli knows exactly where you are, assuming he's been paying attention. Even if he's facing the other way, the smoke will be visible as will the discarded AT rocket launcher. The liklihood of getting that second missile off before getting creamed is negligible, and you'll need a second rocket to finish the job since as I demonstrated above using small arms fire for the other 40-50% won't cut the mustard.

But oh well...heli dominance is just a part of being a BF2 player. I've accepted it, this thread was more or less me just thinking out loud. :p

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Actually that's a good point. It's not like the helicopter can be operated by one guy; it takes a team to make that work so it should take a team to take it down. If the heli could be manned by one guy then I'd disagree with you.

Sorry, that "logic" might appear valid at first glance, but it's superficial at best. And on top of that, it's only tangentially related.

Soloing is a genuine technique that requires real skill to be performed competently. In effect, I'm taking a "two shot"* system and using my knowledge and expertise to perform all of the actions alone.

Similarly, get good enough with an Eryx and movement/concealment, and your problems will disappear. No reason to further cripple the helicopter to suit the ground masses. Hell, I do it often and I practically never play on the ground.

Why can't the "dedicated" infantrymen do it?


* Pilot and gunner

[zone36]

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Actually that's a good point. It's not like the helicopter can be operated by one guy; it takes a team to make that work so it should take a team to take it down. If the heli could be manned by one guy then I'd disagree with you.

I'm going to stretch this one out a bit and say that it takes a chopper team to effectively rape a CP, but an attack helo can be operated very lethally by 1 (skilled) pilot using the seat-switch method.

[Wizrdwarts]

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Actually that's a good point. It's not like the helicopter can be operated by one guy; it takes a team to make that work so it should take a team to take it down. If the heli could be manned by one guy then I'd disagree with you.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Which confirms what I already thought/knew: as it stands, the heli is easy enough to drop. What people basically want is the ability to take it down all by themselves instead of working together to achieve the same result.

Lame.

Actually that's a good point. It's not like the helicopter can be operated by one guy; it takes a team to make that work so it should take a team to take it down. If the heli could be manned by one guy then I'd disagree with you.

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Which confirms what I already thought/knew: as it stands, the heli is easy enough to drop. What people basically want is the ability to take it down all by themselves instead of working together to achieve the same result.

Lame.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: Should attack helis catch fire with 1 AT missile hit

Okay, just crunched some numbers on the current damages. To my knowledge, all areas on the chopper take the same damage so there is no weak spot like there is on a tank or APC, but if I'm wrong please correct me. This testing was done with regular PLA weapons against the Z-10. Note that each vehicle has 20 bars of health so each bar represents 5% 'health'.

1 AT missile did 10 bars (50 damage).
30 SMG (Type-85) rounds did ½ bar (2.5).
77 LMG (Type-95) rounds (time for full auto until overheat) did 2 bars (10).
30 AR (AK-47) rounds did 1 bar (5).
10 sniper rounds (Type-88) did ½ bar (2.5).
15 pistol rounds (QSZ-92) did ¼ bar (1.25).
7 shotgun (NOR982) did 1½ bars (7.5). - This was at point-blank so every pellet hit.
30 carbine (QBZ-95) did 1 bar (5).

Since I don't have the PKM or M95 unlocked on my current account and I don't remember the password for my old account I didn't bother trying online in an empty server to test those unlocks so those may be better.

To weeyoo:

It takes 5 seconds to reload an Eryx AT missile. It takes 7 seconds sitting on the pad to heal 10 bars of health (roughly 7% health/second). Therefore, in the time it takes to reload a missile, the chopper can heal back 35%. If someone is sitting in a heli on the helipad getting fixed and is under fire by one AT trooper, the AT trooper will have to shoot 5 AT missiles to destroy the chopper:

AT #1 - 100 health to 50 health
AT #2 - 85 health to 35 health
AT #3 - 70 health to 20 health
AT #4 - 55 health to 5 health
AT #5 - 40* health to 0 health

*The health reduction caused by being below 90% after #4 may cause the health to be slightly lower than 40% at #5, but #5 will get the kill regardless. At 5 seconds per reload, this would take a minimum of 20 seconds to achieve.

To Sgt.UpKilla:

At current configuration, assuming an AT missile has hit the chopper and brought it down to 50 health, it would take the following amounts of small arms fire to bring it down to 10 health (on fire):

480 SMG rounds @ 900 RPM = 32 seconds of sustained fire
308 LMG rounds @ 900 RPM = 20.5 seconds of sustained fire
240 AR/Carbine rounds @ 600 RPM = 24 seconds of sustained fire

Of the four automatic weapon types, the highest DPS is the LMG, so assuming your squad consists of one AT trooper (to deliver the initial hit) and five supports, it will take you an additional 4.1 seconds of shooting at the helicopter with all five support gunners to bring the chopper down to 10%, assuming all 5 hit with 100% accuracy and none of them die in that time.

Edit:

For an added bit of info, a .50 cal does just under ½ bar per shot, so it's just over 40 .50 bullets to take a heli from full health to dead. Stingers do 8½ bars per hit, so two stinger shots would bring it down to 15% health; in the red, but not on fire so salvaging the vehicle is still possible.