shotgun range poll.

[Keyelite]

do you use shotguns for serious play? ever?

Yes,they are just about right. My team used them in a crossfire map and he was unstoppable. Literally. I will just hear a "bang" then blood come out from near a door. He even got a couple one shot kills from the hip at a good distance away. You just have to learn the range of the weapon and don't fire beforehand.

[Guiccia]

lol who's that 3% that doesnt know what a shotty is

[Kodakk]

Well, the poll could have been less biased IMO.

I honestly (not being a die-hard shotgun user) think they are fine. I know many people who can use them extremely effectively - SogeKing for example.

Similarly, I initially felt that a lot of different weapons could have been tweaked to perform better - the sniper rifles for example. However, once I actually spend hours and hours practicing, I learned everything about the gun. It's general accuracy, it's reload time, it's CQC effective range, etc.

So, applying that to the shotgun issue, maybe you just have to mess around with perk/attachment combinations and play styles in order to compensate for the less than realistic range. Yes, maybe after some experimenting the community will decide that the range needs a boost, but from my experience the range is just fine for the map sizes/gameplay.

[Chris_Redfield]

In Overgrown, I can get a kill from the A bomb site buildings 2nd front inner staircase floor, to the bottom corner. Thats about... 10 metres or so, which is roughly 30 feet. And thats with just one shot, with the semi-auto shotgun.

Id like the rounds to not to disappear, but were talking about shutguns here, after a specific point, the damage should fall to like.. 5 HPs per shell.

[The_Eliminator]

I'd like to see the rounds just not disappear into thin air, but they definitely should have a pretty nasty falloff.

yea i agree, i hate firing at a wall 10 feet away to make no impact whatsoever, the fragmentation seems to just disappear after a certain distance.

[Kayback]

The thing is the shotguns are NOT fine.

They work "ok" at best in close maps. But seriously, the spread you experience on them is idiotic and it proves that none of the developes have ever used a shotgun IRL. At 40 meters, you should still be dropping 75% of the shot in the chest area of a man sized target.

And I'm talking about 00 Buckshot here, through a full choke. 75% of 9 balls it still 6 9mm sized round hitting your chest. Thats a lot of lead on target.

Hell with NO choke you'd still only be getting around 1.2 meters of spread at 40m. In COD 4 you get 1.2 meters of spread at the muzzle.

They need to tighten the shotgun up by about 50% to make it equal in gaming terms. All it is good for is close quaters. It _can_ be used on semi longer ranges, but it's not that effective. IRL it would be wffective past 30m.

As it is I can slap an ACOG on my Skorpion and shoot the same disatances you can shoot an ACOG equipped M21......

I'd love the shotgun to have a slug option, but if there is any change to be made, I'd want a tighter choke, and to be able to pump the weapon faster. The guy using it also has NOT IDEA how to use a shotgun. You don't wait for the recoil to stop before you pump. And he pumps it too slowly.

This is me with my shotgun. 2 cases in the air, one in the chamber ready to rock again. True these are #7's and not combat loads, but I can do the same thing with SSG's, 00's, slugs....

Thats 3 shots in the time it takes the first shell to hit the ground. What does the guy in COD4 do?

hee hee, one of the options should be a Vang barrel. Now can we say sniper shotgun?

[Chris_Redfield]

KBK, with a risk of sounding like an a-hole, but seriously man... stop. This is a videogame, and in order for it to be fun for everyone, it has to be balanced.

Let me in the one of the two buildings on Bloc, with a shotgun, and you stand no chance. Vacant? Same thing. Everyone would be running with shotguns, if the 10 yard/metre lethal distance they have now (roughly estimated, dont kill me), would suddenly turn into 40 yard one. Its like Quake/UT rail gun battles.

Hence- make a god damn reality mod for COD4! NOW! If it was pulled off well, Id be playing it.

[Kayback]

Balanced? How is it balanced? It's totally screwed up.

Lookit things like the M14. I now use that as my shotgun kit. Why? Because it also does single hit to kill shots, but I can also reach out and touch someone, and I have the rapid fire ability the shotgun lacks.

How is taking something like a shotgun, and then screwing it toally, balance? The ranges you fight over in COD4 are more or less what a shotgun is meant for. Let me inside either building in Block with my Skorpion, and you're just as screwed. Infact that's what I spend my time DOING on Block. Getting inside the other building, and killing campers.

The thing is my Skorpion is useful over the whole map. The shotgun isn't. It's been screwed so badly into one small nieche that there is no point in taking it.

I know this is a game. But again this is a game with a foot in realism. .50's kill outright. The 7.62x51mm recoils harder and kills quicker than the 9x18mm Makerov round. The 12 guage shotgun does what exactly? It spreads stupidly wide, it runs out of range stupidly quickly, and it fires waaaaay too slowly.

There actually isn't a role the shotgun does that another gun can't do, and do better. The spread doesn't even let you clip multiple targets. Any weapon fired from the hip on full auto has a better, more predictable spread.

Tweak one of those things, and the shotgun would be useful all round. Either tighten up the spread, or speed up the pump, or make the range bigger and you'll have a weapon that's used more widely.

I'd love a reality mod of COD4. Oh wait. They already did that. It's called Hardcore.

KBK

[Kodakk]

It's balanced because if the shotguns could fire accurately across the map - which is basically the distancing you are describing - it would be too powerful.

Shotguns are notorious for being deadly CQC weapons on video games, and they should be used for just that. If every gun was given the amount of realism that you desire for the shotgun, the game just wouldn't be balanced.

I made a shotgun kit yesterday and actually did quite well, meaning I was able to take off targets that I felt a shotgun should be able to hit.

*You want to reload/pump the shotty faster, use sleight of hand... There are perks for a reason.

[Chris_Redfield]

Balanced? How is it balanced? It's totally screwed up.

Its nigh perfect.

Lookit things like the M14. I now use that as my shotgun kit. Why? Because it also does single hit to kill shots, but I can also reach out and touch someone, and I have the rapid fire ability the shotgun lacks.

Bullsh!t, unless youre playing Hardcore, but in Hardcore, all weapon balance goes out of the window. As a matter of fact, the finely tuned weapon damage and HP balance in normal play doesnt count towards HC. If were going to argue about this subject, we need to specify what were talking about first.

Regular play- perfectly balanced
Hardcore- well, tough luck

How is taking something like a shotgun, and then screwing it toally, balance? The ranges you fight over in COD4 are more or less what a shotgun is meant for. Let me inside either building in Block with my Skorpion, and you're just as screwed. Infact that's what I spend my time DOING on Block. Getting inside the other building, and killing campers.

2 shots vs my 1? Hardly, I hardly miss inside Bloc buildings. Purely statistically, I have an upper hand. I also have the range advantage, since Scorp is taken back to 20HP right after 200 distance units.

But its all irrelevant. You want a RL shotgun, this is not an RL simulation. Gameplay balance, thats all that matters. Shotguns are there for a 1 shot close distance kills, and thats what they do. Whether or not the disappearance of buckshot at a distance is fair or not, Ive already expressed my opinion.

The thing is my Skorpion is useful over the whole map. The shotgun isn't. It's been screwed so badly into one small nieche that there is no point in taking it.

No its not. 20HP damage hardly makes it "useful" all across the map, when a pistol is a better choice.

But again this is a game with a foot in realism.

No. This is a game with references from real world. But the games fundament is still "gameplay balance". You might not like it, hence why I said "realism mod", but competitive players dig it rather well, and one of the reasons is because its just that damn well balanced.

.50's kill outright. The 7.62x51mm recoils harder and kills quicker than the 9x18mm Makerov round. The 12 guage shotgun does what exactly? It spreads stupidly wide, it runs out of range stupidly quickly, and it fires waaaaay too slowly.

Wait, youre content with multiple handgun shots to kill a person, even while shot in the head, yet youre complaining about shotguns being "unrealistic"? What?

There actually isn't a role the shotgun does that another gun can't do, and do better. The spread doesn't even let you clip multiple targets. Any weapon fired from the hip on full auto has a better, more predictable spread.

- Theres not a single gun that can kill with 1 shot at close distance, perks and HC excluded
- The spread does actually, for a fact, enable you to kill 2 people or would to 60HP if they are hit with just 1 pellet.
-Shotguns spread is much more predictable, than the spread of any assault rifle (SMGs excluded), LMG or unscoped sniper rifle. If the target is in the crosshairs, at 10 metres or less, and theres no lag, the target is dead with 1 shot. SMGs struggle with that, ARs will never reach that, shotguns pull it off on a regular basis.

Tweak one of those things, and the shotgun would be useful all round. Either tighten up the spread, or speed up the pump, or make the range bigger and you'll have a weapon that's used more widely.

-M3 Super 90
-Doubletap

I'd love a reality mod of COD4. Oh wait. They already did that. It's called Hardcore.

Not really a "reality mod" now, is it? Want a touch of sarcasm? FInd yourself another game.

[sava700]

I've got a Extrema2 Shot gun from Beretta... it can shot 12shots in less than 2seconds. Being a owner of the gun I can say its one of the best and most fun to shot guns I've ever fired. The game's shot gun should really be no different if your using a semi like this one. As for range...well I think its just fine in the game as it is.

Here is a video of it being used...I'm not as accurate as this guy but I can knock em down just as fast! :salute:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk5zXbY-l2g[/media]

[Sloi sauce]

I don't understand people b*tching against improving the shotgun: just make it lose damage over distance more regularly than other weapons!

0-10 = 1 hit kill
11-20 = 2 hit kill
21-30 = 3 hit kill
etc

It would be a lot better than

0-10 = 1 hit kill
11-x = magically disappears in a wormhole in space

[Roger Smith]

what i am suggesting is not that they dominate the map at any range, i am suggesting that they be lethal BEYOND point blank. past that, they should not magically disappear, but they should spread and have a huge damage drop off. you people honestly do not understand what i am saying, or you do not choose to.

alright, so you say they are fine as is, and that you can own just fine with them, thats fine. but can you honestly tell me that you wouldn't do better in those close quarters with a different weapon? you are not always given the opportunity to corner your enemy. sometimes you are in very close quarters, but just not POINT BLANK; and your shells absolutely CAN NOT reach your opponents when they are feet away from you. so deny it if you must, you always do.

[Sloi sauce]

what i am suggesting is not that they dominate the map at any range, i am suggesting that they be lethal BEYOND point blank. past that, they should not magically disappear, but they should spread and have a huge damage drop off. you people honestly do not understand what i am saying, or you do not choose to.

I understand. I put it numerically, and you backed it up in plain English. :)

[Kayback]

Its nigh perfect.



Bullsh!t, unless youre playing Hardcore, but in Hardcore, all weapon balance goes out of the window.

Well HC is what I play. And the weapon balance isn't out. It's pretty accurate actually. I don't see why you say it goes out the window.All it does is highlight the drawbacks of a shotgun.

If were going to argue about this subject, we need to specify what were talking about first.

We're talking about the effect of a boost to the stats of a shotgun, are we not? Irrespective of the game type or style, HC or SC, the shotgun could do with a boost

2 shots vs my 1? Hardly, I hardly miss inside Bloc buildings. Purely statistically, I have an upper hand. I also have the range advantage, since Scorp is taken back to 20HP right after 200 distance units.

You hardly miss. Congratulations. Neither do I. However I find the weapon can't cycle fast enough to hit you and the guy with the AR next to you.

But its all irrelevant. You want a RL shotgun, this is not an RL simulation. Gameplay balance, thats all that matters. Shotguns are there for a 1 shot close distance kills, and thats what they do. Whether or not the disappearance of buckshot at a distance is fair or not, Ive already expressed my opinion.

So you've got the shotgun YOU want, so we must all be happy and not express our own opinion? I just want game makers to stop screwing over the shotgun so seriously.

No its not. 20HP damage hardly makes it "useful" all across the map, when a pistol is a better choice.

And how many pistols can carry an ACOG?

Wait, youre content with multiple handgun shots to kill a person, even while shot in the head, yet youre complaining about shotguns being "unrealistic"? What?

Yes. It takes multiple handgun rounds to kill someone. That's believable. What's NOT believable is 9 .38 rounds vanishing into thin air at 12 meters. Each time you pull the trigger on a shotgun you are basically launching half an M9 magazine at the badguys in one shot. How can it fail to kill at the same ranges an M9 can? Multiple pistol shots to the head? Stop playing Softcore.

- Theres not a single gun that can kill with 1 shot at close distance, perks and HC excluded

Why exclude HC? The shotgun doesn't benifit fromt he same boost the other weapons get.

- The spread does actually, for a fact, enable you to kill 2 people or would to 60HP if they are hit with just 1 pellet.

I don't think I've ever seen two people die from a single shotgun hit. I've seen multiple people die from single 7.62mm hits, with deep impact and stopping power. I've seen it with a burst of ammo from an SMG in the same time it takes the guy to pump two shots out.

-Shotguns spread is much more predictable, than the spread of any assault rifle (SMGs excluded), LMG or unscoped sniper rifle.

Why exclude SMG's ? The shotgun and the SMG are meant to fill the same nieche. CQB.

Not really a "reality mod" now, is it? Want a touch of sarcasm? FInd yourself another game.

ALL the other games have the same BS with shotguns. They spread like a 'mofo, they can't shoot at range, the moron pumping the gun doesn't know how to do it properly, and they loose too much power over distance.

I'm not saying make them super duper weapons. I'm saying get them right. All the other guns in the game pretty much fill the role they should. The shotguns have been screwed.


Like Rodger and Sloi say, the shotgun should be able to work a little better than it does. I'm not saying I want an IRL shotgun, I'm saying the balance should be tilted a little more in the SG's favour.

KBK