What do you think?

[Dairuka]

Im using myself as an example telling that youre wrong. Take it from your own perspective, you dont switch games because the next one is just the same as the old one, in "better clothing", you switch to a new game because it is fun to play. Or better yet, more fun to play than the old one which coincidentally was getting... you know... old.

Yet all I see are comparisons about other games, and how the new game should be like the old game. It's a vicious cycle. You can try to pretend the original point is something different, but I'm just going to point out the obvious.

Youre trying to put us down by thinking we cant get off BF2 and the only way we could, was if the next one was a BF2 clone. No. Wrong.

I don't put individuals down. The worst I do is generalized comments. I'd never out-right tell people they're wrong. I never directly insult someone, even if I don't agree with their opinions. That would be rude.

I can't say that everybody I debate with shows me the same courtesy though.

And yet... even though I put forward an example of myself switching between games while being a very picky bastard, you somehow still managed to get a completely different idea about it.

Not nice.

Here I thought I was helping you by fixing your post.

[Chris_Redfield]

Yet all I see are comparisons about other games, and how the new game should be like the old game. It's a vicious cycle. You can try to pretend the original point is something different, but I'm just going to point out the obvious.

If youre going to go down that road, keep in mind that you need to keep these two separate. Comparision between any two games is perfectly valid. You dont see me finding flaws in comparing COD4 to Crysis. The fundamental issue youre picking here, while being at wrong, is that you think that when people mention FFOW and BF2 in the same sentence, they truly believe that FFOW should be BF2 with a facelift. When I say that FFOW is bad because it doesnt work, and BF2 is good because it works, its not me saying that FFOW should be BF2. Its me drawing a direct comparision in order for you to understand the point Im trying to make, better.

Personally, a game with
-BF2 air combat (with tweaks)
-COD4 infantry combat (with certain adjustments)
-multiple gamemodes (push, CTD, Conquest, etc)
-POE2 tank and armor aspect

would most certainly please me more than anything. Throw in the Cam-in-Cam from SWAT4, aswell as multiple grenade choices and an enjoyable shotgun, and youve got yourself a killer combination. In the strive of staying unique, you see developers coming up with sh!t... different, a little... but crap nonetheless.

I don't put individuals down. The worst I do is generalized comments. I'd never out-right tell people they're wrong. I never directly insult someone, even if I don't agree with their opinions. That would be rude.

Oh, mon ami, but you can be very rude. And you have been.

I can't say that everybody I debate with shows me the same courtesy though.

I dont debate, I argue. Theres no excuse for being rude though, but thats interwebs for you. If I did offend you in any way or form, I offer my sinceres apologies. I often argued with my buds and had a beer afterwards, no matter how heated the subject got, I thought of you as my e-bud. Was I wrong?

[Dairuka]

Your perfect game will never exist Chris. You're only frustrating yourself, and building up un-necessary hatred for game developers because of it.

I'll be over on the F:FoW boards trying to point that out to the mindless drones trashing that game, and Kaos Studios too.

Anyhow. I'm still waiting for my beer. :cry:

[Chris_Redfield]

Your perfect game will never exist Chris. You're only frustrating yourself, and building up un-necessary hatred for game developers because of it.

Oh no, D-Man. Im not expecting anything, nor am I building myself up for anything. Theres 2 types "failures". Throwing out an unfinished game and releasing a game that is working, is a product one can be happy with, but just doesnt tick with the community. ETQW and FFOW represent an example for both cases.

[EDIT] Hence the negativity towards the game. Youll shake hands and say "good try, lads, better luck next time?", and on the other occasion, all you can do is point towards DICE/EA and ask "did you not learn a thing?".

I'll be over on the F:FoW boards trying to point that out to the mindless drones trashing that game, and Kaos Studios too.

Good luck with that. Somehow I dont think youll dig up much negativity though.

Anyhow. I'm still waiting for my beer. :cry:

:)

[Dairuka]

Oh no, D-Man. Im not expecting anything, nor am I building myself up for anything. Theres 2 types "failures". Throwing out an unfinished game and releasing a game that is working, is a product one can be happy with, but just doesnt tick with the community. ETQW and FFOW represent an example for both cases.

Of course, people have the tendency to blame the developers - when it is really the publishers their misdirected hatred should be thrown towards.

Money is tight when you're a game developer, and you have to work fast to keep the executives off your back. Kaos Studios learned that the hard way, but theres still promise in F:FoW - mostly because it's still brand new.

[-Spartan`II7^]

I agree with the spawns thing, you should have fixed spawnpoints.

[Chris_Redfield]

Of course, people have the tendency to blame the developers - when it is really the publishers their misdirected hatred should be thrown towards.

Hence the need for some good talkers. Its as if the developers these days are a bunch of pushovers. If theres one thing Ive learned in my short life, its this- everything is negotiable. Keep people informed, tell them the "why?"´s and "because"´s.

If DICE would have been crystal clear about the process of BF2 patching, and what keeps them from fixing (exaple) jet aspect of BF2, that would make sense to us, and showed their work in progress, you would have seen tremendous support from the community, and haters would simply be shut up or talked to by the community itsself.

Having been in ETQW forums when the game was released, I was shocked. And pleased. The relationship between the community and the developers was tight, positive and friendly, because every time there was a hick-up, a problem, the devs would come forward and do their best to explain.

For example, ETQW lacked VOIP support at launch. Some people were furious and a number of complaint threads came up. Devs came forward and actually apologized, saying that they anticipated very low use of VOIP and figured they would keep it out of the game. And... what do you know, complaint threads ended (regarding VOIP anyway), VOIP was patched in later, and amusingly... noone used it. (Imagine COD4 VOIP)

Honesty and reason goes a long way.

Now, of course noone will like the fact when DICE comes forward and says "we couldnt patch it because we didnt have enough time", but thats their problem, not someones who has paid 50 bucks for the game.

[Dairuka]

As far as Infinity Ward goes, they've done a great job with their patches - although I agree that the Spawn Points should be a little more randomized than they are now. The guns are fine, and it's gotten to the point where the community can't even agree on which guns are over-powered or not. (A sign of Balance.) - IW talks with people a lot on their official forums as far as I've seen, although I don't really post there.

As far as Kaos Studios goes, they're doing exactly what you just stated; only they're doing it on The F:FoW community website. A lot of the complaints made so far, are being worked on as priorities. VOIP and Joystick Support being top priorities apparently.

But you're right Chris. I most certainly agree that every development company could use a good public relations manager.

[Chris_Redfield]

As far as Kaos Studios goes, they're doing exactly what you just stated; only they're doing it on The F:FoW community website. A lot of the complaints made so far, are being worked on as priorities. VOIP and Joystick Support being top priorities apparently.

KAOS is more to like DICE, than Splash Damage. I quick-checked the posts of the Dev team, and most of them are rare posters, some posted back in July, most havent posted at all, and only Mitch seems to be an active poster and hes more akin to a community member, than a manager.

Not even close to SD, Im afraid, with some devs having like 700+ points. Check it out.

https://www.enemyterritory.com

Theres a major difference between two communities and how the gaming community as a whole sees two development groups.

Oh man... I wouldnt want to go to CAL forums right now, haha.