Now i feel the pain of the nerf

[Odedge]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

I think the people who like the C4 chucking, dolphin diving, and the such are players who like the end results more than how they got them. To me, the journey is a bit more enjoyable, than the destination. Some of the changes made the journey more enjoyable.

I used to think the guns on the blackhawk were overpowered, but now I think they are pretty much worthless. Before, you didn't have to aim, you just had to spam. That is not skill, but those who complained when they got nerfed (people have to use this word more selectively) are the people who probably where skill less spammers, button mashers as my friend would say.

Did EA go overboard in changing, the blackhawk guns? I think so. But having the choice, I am glad they changed it. Everyone always states that people should adapt and I have tried to the best of my ability. I am still pissed off by how claymores work and wish they would change it, but I have to live with them. But if something you hold so dear in this game changes, take your own advice and adapt (or stop playing this game).

People don't tend to consider both sides of the story, they only look how it effects them. This is especially true to the people who tend to play in the more powerful vehicles (Jets, Choppers, Tanks) or use a technique (dolphin diving, C4 chucking) that results in success. If a jet is just randomly bombing white squares for a lot of kills, when something threatens their so-called dominance over the virtual battlefield, they are the first one to "whine" about something being nerfed.

Did they ever consider that maybe it doesn't take skill to drop 5 bombs on infantry or point and click your button so your LGM will pretty much destroy anything it locks on to. The jet fears very little and there is very little that can threaten a jet. While this doesn't mean jack IRL (war is supposedly hell), it means a lot in a game (which is primarily done for recreation).

Most, if not all, aspects of the game should have a benefit and a cost associated with it. If you want the best accuracy by being prone, it makes sense that you should think about that rather than reacting to it (current ability to go prone in .001 of a second). But, then you should be at a disadvantage by not being able to shoot for a moment while you are standing back up. I think there should be the same delay when you are going prone.

I have sampled pretty much every aspect of this game so I am not talking from one perspective. In a game that is as complex as this for a FPS, Dice has done a pretty good job. But, I would hope most of us that think they could do a better job, is looking at both sides of the battlefield, not just their side.

[zipp0r]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

I don't see how dolphin diving and prone spamming are really all that skillful.
It also exploited this game's poor netcode and hit detection. Spamming certain movements to exploit a flaw in the game is considered cheating by some people. If the dolphin diver had the right ping his hitbox would never line up with his in-game character AND he would get the accuracy bonus of being prone.
You don't see a problem with that at all?

thats not really what this thread is about. its that when they removed the dolphin diving/jumping, they made it take too long to change stances. your there mashing the stand button and your player just wont stand up. and also when you walk off a low building (Loosing no health) your unable to shoot your gun for a few seconds, yet you can run around fine ?

someone already said the fix that they needed to do and that was to stop a player being prone unless they are on the ground and if they are jumping in the air the model is in a standing position.

[TotalBF2er]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

So do I, very skilled menuver, but so many nubs thinin its cheap...

How is it skilled? Skilled to the point that you can press your jump button, whilst pressing your forward key gently to get some extra oomph, and pressing your throw key? A 5-year-old player can do that.

The problem is now, we can't throw anything while jumping now :/. Can't throw medic or ammo packs over the wall to teammates anymore.

Here's why it got nerfed. MonkeyMagic was the best infantry player in BF2 but here's why.

http://media.putfile.com/ProneJumping/640

Yep, pretty much at that point BF2 had degraded to gameplay action like that. Just picture a group of 5 vs 5 doing it, while another group bounced around like rabbits with the grenade launcher... looked stupid as hell. When I started having to play like that as well to compete, I was like "**** this, this game is retarded" and uninstalled it. Only when my friends told me they had patched it out, did I return to playing BF2.

I don't see how dolphin diving and prone spamming are really all that skillful.
It also exploited this game's poor netcode and hit detection. Spamming certain movements to exploit a flaw in the game is considered cheating by some people. If the dolphin diver had the right ping his hitbox would never line up with his in-game character AND he would get the accuracy bonus of being prone.
You don't see a problem with that at all?

Exactly! This is why some players do it! Because it works. They were exploiting the game engine, pure and simple. I only get upset when I am forced to exploit the game engine in return, in order to combat them.

ok whatever, never said that, anyways who would want to see 64 flopping people on the karkand?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZSZMtKaN9I

Yet some posters on this forum say that BF2 is Arcady, so this should be allowed :/

Although... I find it funny, that many of the people who are echoing your views, are the very same people who agree with rules that are against Claymore use on certain servers that are breaking the ROE. Why? Because they consider it cheap and/or exploitive.

It's not the use of claymores that pisses me off... It's that snipers are on the frontline in combat, where they don't belong, planting them. Originally they were supposed to be used to cover the sniper's back - for some reason snipers now have enough armor and health to charge right in to combat, and planting these things in an instant. Snipers are not an assault class - again this gets back to the game developer's lack of effort in balancing abilities.

I just dont see how anyone can defend a class that is supposed to be covert and weak, but deadly at long ranges, being in the fray and frontline combat. Sure, the game is not realistic, but now it is close to ridiculous.

Most, if not all, aspects of the game should have a benefit and a cost associated with it. If you want the best accuracy by being prone, it makes sense that you should think about that rather than reacting to it (current ability to go prone in .001 of a second). But, then you should be at a disadvantage by not being able to shoot for a moment while you are standing back up. I think there should be the same delay when you are going prone.

Exactly... the game can't be too realistic, or it would slow gameplay down. But as I had posted earlier, the game has to be believable. Allowing superhuman feats and magical healing properties (tanks sitting on supply boxes), starts to make the game unbelievable and loses the immersion.

As in the case of the sniper, his accuracy and damage should be high, but the cost should be, that caught out in the open, he's toast. The term 'combat sniper' should never exist.

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

every game in existence is arcady. to resolve this issue, you should get only 1 life per game and when you die you have to buy a new one.

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

There is nothing wrong with using what the game allows you to do.

The only issue I see in your post lies with EA/DICE's development incompetence.

So, you don't see anything wrong with glitching into a building and killing people on the outside who can't fight back? The game still allows that...

thats not really what this thread is about. its that when they removed the dolphin diving/jumping, they made it take too long to change stances. your there mashing the stand button and your player just wont stand up. and also when you walk off a low building (Loosing no health) your unable to shoot your gun for a few seconds, yet you can run around fine ?

Even with the change, the Marines and PLA/MEC troops in this game still have superhuman speed when getting up and jumping about with all of the gear and armor they have on. They also have wicked stamina, regardless of the comments people make about "feeling like a morbidly obese soldier" running around. The troops aren't obese at all. They are just dealing with hauling a third or more of their body weight into combat. Getting up from prone while wearing jeans and a t-shirt is a little different from doing it with your 12 year old sibling on your back and while holding a weapon. Try it. Get someone to sit on your back while you lie on your stomach in the prone holding a broom handle. Then try and get up as quickly as possible. Then jump around. Enjoy.

[TMB]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

Yet some posters on this forum say that BF2 is Arcady, so this should be allowed :/

Well, it is an arcade style game. Some of us don't feel the need, or want to try to be "immersed", or pretend we are in a warzone, been there, done that. Some of us play for fun, and like the fast pace the game can have. Anyone that plays a game where nothing can go unseen (UAV/scan), and has such random hit detection as a tactical shooter is a fool, and a bigger fool for crying about how other people want to play.

Even with the change, the Marines and PLA/MEC troops in this game still have superhuman speed when getting up and jumping about with all of the gear and armor they have on. They also have wicked stamina, regardless of the comments people make about "feeling like a morbidly obese soldier" running around. The troops aren't obese at all. They are just dealing with hauling a third or more of their body weight into combat. Getting up from prone while wearing jeans and a t-shirt is a little different from doing it with your 12 year old sibling on your back and while holding a weapon. Try it. Get someone to sit on your back while you lie on your stomach in the prone holding a broom handle. Then try and get up as quickly as possible. Then jump around. Enjoy.

I don't know what unit you were in, but we trained with our gear, running miles, and miles, push ups, pull ups, marching through woods, live fire combat training, and guess what, never went into combat with a ruck on. If you can't get up and move you *** at a high rate of speed under fire, with your battlerattle on...you die, and that motivates you more than you know. I mean seriously, you run from the US arty spawn on Kark and you're out of sprint by the hotel, hell, that's no even a quarter mile, ANY combat troop could make it at least to the river before crapping out.

Any mention of realism, or partial realism beyond aesthetic value are beyond asinine.

So, you don't see anything wrong with glitching into a building and killing people on the outside who can't fight back? The game still allows that...

BIG difference between features added to a game, like jumping, and bad collesion mesh that was never intended...big. Bad "netcode", and random deviation does not automatically make using evasive manuers an exploit.

If you guys that hate more "mobile" players hate it so much, get preachy with the people that can fix it. Get them to FIX one or the other, Get them to make hit detection actually hit where you shoot, then we'll see how many are still standing at rounds end. I garantee it will weed out those that can from those that can't.

[Dairuka]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

Originally they were supposed to be used to cover the sniper's back - for some reason snipers now have enough armor and health to charge right in to combat, and planting these things in an instant. Snipers are not an assault class - again this gets back to the game developer's lack of effort in balancing abilities.

I just dont see how anyone can defend a class that is supposed to be covert and weak, but deadly at long ranges, being in the fray and frontline combat. Sure, the game is not realistic, but now it is close to ridiculous.

I've never really played a sniper as anything but an assault class. I'm usually the one leading a squad, and I generally enjoy staying 50m away from the battle, sniping off people who get in the way of my squad taking the flag.

As a result, I tend to get plenty of kills, and plenty of flag capture assists.

If I'm forced to take a flag, I generally use my claymores offensively, giving me any advantage against would-be defenders. Even if my claymore doesn't remove their presence, surely my pistol would. I do this to even out the odds in CQC in very hostile territory crawling with enemies.

As in the case of the sniper, his accuracy and damage should be high, but the cost should be, that caught out in the open, he's toast. The term 'combat sniper' should never exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman

Lets not turn this into a 'what snipers are meant to do' sniper debate, you'll lose.

[TotalBF2er]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman

Lets not turn this into a 'what snipers are meant to do' sniper debate, you'll lose.

Oh, this is about winning or losing now? And not about healthy discussion? Ok, from your own url you quoted, the role of the sniper is....

Snipers often work independently of other infantry units.
Snipers are mainly employed for ranges of up to 1,500 meters (1,650 yd).
Snipers usually take a strategic position and camouflage themselves (with a Ghillie suit). They usually remain prone.

You quoted a site that says nothing about snipers working the frontline, in the middle of a firefight, throwing nades and planting claymores, and going head to head with assault units with only a pistol...

Will I lose the debate now?

Well, it is an arcade style game. Some of us don't feel the need, or want to try to be "immersed", or pretend we are in a warzone, been there, done that. Some of us play for fun, and like the fast pace the game can have. Anyone that plays a game where nothing can go unseen (UAV/scan), and has such random hit detection as a tactical shooter is a fool, and a bigger fool for crying about how other people want to play.

Hey, if you like BF2 the way it is, all power to you. Just accept the fact that many others won't feel the same way you do.

I'm not an advocate of nerfs, in any game, I want to see improvements.

[TMB]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

Hey, if you like BF2 the way it is, all power to you. Just accept the fact that many others won't feel the same way you do.

I'm not an advocate of nerfs, in any game, I want to see improvements.

I liked it in 1.12, and truely only one of the many bugs that really annoy me has been fixed, and that's the red nametag bug. And many people don't agree with those that have advocated all the changes that dictated how the game we all play, plays. My problem isn't nescessarily THAT they changed some things, but HOW they changed them, while ignoring real issues with the game, such as the ongoing debates over hit detection, and laggy hitboxes.

[Dairuka]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

Oh, this is about winning or losing now? And not about healthy discussion? Ok, from your own url you quoted, the role of the sniper is....

Snipers often work independently of other infantry units.

Designated Marksmen are squad based. This is a squad game, allowing snipers to play as a designated marksmen and not purely a sniper.

Snipers are mainly employed for ranges of up to 1,500 meters (1,650 yd).

Designated Marksmen are mainly employed for ranges of up to 800 meters. The last I checked, the longest sight range in BF2 was around 500m-600m on Dalian Plant.

Snipers usually take a strategic position and camouflage themselves (with a Ghillie suit). They usually remain prone.

Rebel, Insurgent, and from what I remember Russian Spetznas snipers do not wear guile suits. I guess that means that if I'm playing as the SAS, USMC, MEC, or PLA that I can't be a designated marksmen, simply because I have a couple leafs on my head?

You quoted a site that says nothing about snipers working the frontline, in the middle of a firefight, throwing nades and planting claymores, and going head to head with assault units with only a pistol...

Yet, it shows us the real life purpose of the SVD, which is a basic weapon in Battlefield 2.

I merely believe that the role of a Designated Marksmen is simply an option for snipers who do not want to hide behind friendly lines, picking off easy targets from 400m away, something which you believe is not an option for snipers.

Will I lose the debate now?

[TotalBF2er]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

You miss the point. The sniper class in BF2 was not designed to be an in-your-face fighter. A DM sniper would still not be an 'in your face' fighter either. They're not equipped in the game or in real life (weapon nor armor-wise) to deal with other, higher armored close combat infantry. But hey, play the sniper the way you like. I personally think it's BS what they currently get away with in the game.

Which leads me to the question, why do you play the sniper class as an assault class, when there already is one - with theoretically better armor and weapons for the task?

I liked it in 1.12, and truely only one of the many bugs that really annoy me has been fixed, and that's the red nametag bug. And many people don't agree with those that have advocated all the changes that dictated how the game we all play, plays. My problem isn't nescessarily THAT they changed some things, but HOW they changed them, while ignoring real issues with the game, such as the ongoing debates over hit detection, and laggy hitboxes.

Then even if it appears as though we hate each other on this forum, we actually agree.

[TMB]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

Then even if it appears as though we hate each other on this forum, we actually agree.

I don't hate anybody, I just like what I like about the game. BTW, you were in my squad a couple weeks ago :)

[Dairuka]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

You miss the point. The sniper class in BF2 was not designed to be an in-your-face fighter. A DM sniper would still not be an 'in your face' fighter either.

I never considered 50m to be "in your face."

I myself prefer to have a little breathing space when it comes to plucking people off in the head.

Clearly the Sniper was intended to be optionally played as a Designated Marksman if you think for a moment about the SVD, and the Type-88.

They're not equipped in the game or in real life (weapon nor armor-wise) to deal with other, higher armored close combat infantry. But hey, play the sniper the way you like. I personally think it's BS what they currently get away with in the game.

For my playing style, they're the perfect class in most situations. A jump and prone, followed with a headshot to the moron who does the same is a rather amusing way to win a mano-a-mano fight with some medic with his AK-101 pointed at me.

I also like the extra sprint and mobility provided. Not to mention that the guile suit is a godsend for sneaking into heavily populated enemy encampments, and knifing a few unsuspecting fools who can't see the red tag over my head.

Which leads me to the question, why do you play the sniper class as an assault class, when there already is one - with theoretically better armor and weapons for the task?

Fun. Challenge. Something new. The fact that I'm very good at it, only makes it more appealing to me. Plus the silenced pistol is a god-send. I even started using it more often as a Spec-ops.

Best yet is the fact that I can switch from "Designated Marksman Mode" to, "Kill that annoying sniper at 300m away mode" in a pinch.

The claymores, grenades, silenced pistol and the knife are all a great package for countering squads as well, making me an excellent defender.

I personally think you just fail to realize the versatility of the Sniper class, mainly because of some obscure ideal you have based on it's design. It's that kind of underestimation that makes it so easy for me to knife people in the shins.

[TotalBF2er]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

I don't hate anybody, I just like what I like about the game. BTW, you were in my squad a couple weeks ago :)

Hopefully I didn't suck LOL.

[Raidyr]

Re: Now i feel the pain of the nerf

True, snipers in BF2 were mainly made to be close range snipers, but I agree in the fact that they can run up, drop a claymore or 2, chuck a nade, and jump out.

Its all good though, I consider all classes pretty balanced except engineer and medic.