WTF with C4??

[BigBadBob]

Re: WTF with C4??

In case you missed it, you are in a BF2 Discussion forum. That is what we do here, discuss things. If you have nothing to add but your "get over it" mantra, do everyone including yourself a favor of not posting and moving to the next thread.



If you have something to say, say it. Don't be indirect. I made an observation, it is my opinion. The minimizing of the throwing distance for the 3rd time is not something that was a "desperately needed change". The only people that were abusing it prior to 1.4 were the macro uses.
My reference to the ROE was as a comparison to the official rules being not to limit the use of any particular kit and the way that the kit has been modified for the 3rd time now. Did I really have to explain all that to you?

The point of my inital post was that it was find the way it was, period.

not to me, but you know some people. Just want to complain about and flame whoever they please.

[imported_Donkey]

Re: WTF with C4??

Wow, I can see why people completely disregard you at times now. Like rolling in with another tank and getting first shot on the other tank while you both just point at each other and take shots after reload takes any more skill? Like getting into a jet and dropping bombs takes any more skill? Like spawning beside the tank and planting C4/AT mine takes any more skill?

Stop it. It's not zero skill. It requires you to know where to find a vehicle, how to navigate streets at high speed to avoid being hit and to hit the tank before they see/hit/kill you. It requires you to know how to jump off at the right time so you have just enough time to detonate without jumping off too soon to avoid your vehicle stopping short.

Sure it's not some uberleet "I'm a god" double back flip avoid the AA missle "oh look at me" move followed with a precision bombing run and finished off with a cannon run at an AH all before heading back to your carrier before you refuel up... but come on now... "zero skill"... get your head out of your arse.

I find jihad jeeping actually a very slow way to kill people. I mean, that person could just as easily get into a helo and have the tank TV guided in one hit all the while laying waste to other ground troops along the way. I find jihad jeeping inefficient at best and to be used for certain circumstances whenever you have a tank that no one is pairing up with you to help take it out with AT for instance. Which happens invariably in every game I'm in... Seems like a decent countermeasure in such a case.

Point is, I've seen people kick for jihad jeeping when in actuality they are simply kicking inefficient players. WTF? Since when is it okay to kick people that just aren't as good as you are or the best they can be?

It is zero skill. Anyone can put C4 on a car drive it towards a tank and dodge a few shells, then pop out and blow up everything.

What takes skill is sneaking up on a tank and plating C4 or using AT and knowing when to shoot and when to hide to kill a tank.

[Uberduber]

Re: WTF with C4??

Indestructable intelligent claymores are 10000x lamer than chucking C4. It was fine in 1.3.

[Kayback]

Re: WTF with C4??

Please, Jihad Jeeping isn't a no skill thing. I can't do it.

I'm crap at trying to blow things up with C4 jeeps. So I don't try do it.

However I was slightly upset by people running into a gunfights, throwing C4 at you backing off two steps and blowing it up in your face. However I have also done that a couple of times, so no worries really.

What used to piss the living hell out of me was the C4 was the uber anti tank weapon in the game. Honestly, you got a better gun, you got grenades, and you could get free points blowing up commander assests, and you took out tanks with 3 clicks, which could all be accomplished in 1/2 the time it took an AT guy to fire one missle.

And it wasn't that much harder than the AT guy, simply because if you got spotted, you died. Pretty much like what the AT guy did, who had a long white arrow pointing to him.

And honestly, which would damage a tank more, a pack of explosives that is just rested against it's armour, or a dual warhead shaped explosive missile?

KBK

[KHAN]

Re: WTF with C4??

And honestly, which would damage a tank more, a pack of explosives that is just rested against it's armour, or a dual warhead shaped explosive missile?
KBK

Just to point out that c4 would do more damage, the warhead rocket would be deflected off the tank armor and explode whilst the c4 would control the explosion towards the tank.

[imported_The 13th Raptor]

Re: WTF with C4??

Just to point out that c4 would do more damage, the warhead rocket would be deflected off the tank armor and explode whilst the c4 would control the explosion towards the tank.

Dont be silly, c4 is just explosive silly putty, when it goes the explosion goes the way of least resistance, which is out the sides and in the direction of the jeep, and not towards the armored vehicle.Whereas a shaped explosive would focus the blast towards the armor.

[imported_TheDragon]

Re: WTF with C4??

don't worry
the C4 macros still exist
post 1.4
saw a guy, run jump, toss and kill a FULL tank that was driving full speed
same BS as before

[machstem]

Re: WTF with C4??

Why don't they like the pistol and knife? Sure, they're for stat-padders, but you must admit, everyone has played a few rounds of pistol and knife, and they are pretty fun. I just don't see the argument.

If I'm to play on a server, ranked, and I want to drive around in a tank and kill the enemy, I should not be warned/kicked/banned for it.

That's my argument. I want to shoot you with a rifle while you prance around with a pistol/knife? I shouldn't get kicked for that.

If you're in a clan, and you decide it'd be fun, or everyone on teamspeak is deciding for it, then yes, by all means. But when public members just feel like gaming how the game was meant to be played, it's just annoying having to disconnect and find another server.

Simply put: the argument is to prevent people from abusing the stats system (although it's been done previously and still is ebing done) I never minded pistol/knife fights, but as a non-member of any clan affiliation, I never have that same interest or laugh over VoIP when being killed or killing someone with that weapon.

PEACE

[Consultant01]

Re: WTF with C4??

C4 hasn't been nerfed enough and should fall off of fast moving vehicles. It's a extremely poweful explosive and to balance that power it has extremely limited range/speed of deployment - but jeep jihading is a way to bypass that limitation. C4 is meant to have 3 real uses. 1) Setting up a trap to destroy infantry/vehicles 2) Sneaking up on a vehicle planting it on them/near them and destroying them 3) Destroying commander assets. All of these intended uses require you to either be right next to your target or set up a stationary trap in advance.

DICE has said placing C4 on to a jeep jihad style is unintended gameplay element and thus an exploitation. That's the reason DICE has made a BFROE that allows you to disallow Jihad Jeeps because sadly they can't figure out how to patch it and fix the code so players can no longer exploit this. Using a Jihad Jeep is pretty much 100% guaranteed way to kill a tank or APC with zero skill involved and even if you're coming at them head on chances are you'll still be able to roll you damage vehicle within range, detonate and destroy them (and yourself of course).

I agree totally.

Question: Remember in BF1942... didnt you have to put the det-packs IN the jeep to deliver them? They didnt stick to anything if I recall correctly. You stuck them all in the passenger seat of the jeep and they floated around the interior of the jeep with you as you drove. There were even times where lag on the server made the det-packs appear to float behind the moving jeep as if it was flying through the air.

I wonder if there is a way to make C4 stick to TANKS and APC's but not transports? I doubt it... or at least, I doubt Dice could figure it out.

C4 was made to destroy things and it has to stick to those things to destroy them (Bridge pilings, doors, vehicles).

I'm glad the ROE includes provisions for banning jihad jeeping.

[~WPN~Major Ursa]

Re: WTF with C4??

I agree totally.

Question: Remember in BF1942... didnt you have to put the det-packs IN the jeep to deliver them? They didnt stick to anything if I recall correctly. You stuck them all in the passenger seat of the jeep and they floated around the interior of the jeep with you as you drove. There were even times where lag on the server made the det-packs appear to float behind the moving jeep as if it was flying through the air.

I wonder if there is a way to make C4 stick to TANKS and APC's but not transports? I doubt it... or at least, I doubt Dice could figure it out.

C4 was made to destroy things and it has to stick to those things to destroy them (Bridge pilings, doors, vehicles).

I'm glad the ROE includes provisions for banning jihad jeeping.

I don't remember C-4 being used like that in BF1942 or DC, BUT I could fill the back seat of a car with MINES and then jihad it into a tank and blow the living hell out of it. Way easier since you did not have to jump out and then push the detonator.

Sure, either way is a lame tactic, but I don't consider it any more of an exploit than I do running people over with vehicles. I mean hell, there is even a stat for "roadkills". Lame. This is a first person shooter game, not a demolition derby.

C-4 can be in the form of a "sticky bomb" or a magnetic charge or in just about any configuration you can think of. That is the beauty of C-4, it is super stable until you stick a detonator in it. Given the size of the in-game C-4 pack and the relative strength of each charge, I would argue that even with the original throw distance, if you were not behind good cover when that thing went off and you were within 30 feet, you would be DEAD. Why? The dang shockwave from the explosion would liquify your internal organs. BUT, this is a game, NOT real life.

C-4 tossing should be nigh impossible, but it isn't, so just shoot your foe before he can push the button!

[justlearningdude]

Re: WTF with C4??

I have no problem with jihad jeeps, it always cracks me up to hear the tank whores howling for blood when you blow them up in this way, especially if they have just spent the last 5 mins on karkand looking down an alleyway and spawn killing..

I think its completely fair way to fight, and its certainly part of modern warfare nowadays.

[SirCyRo]

Re: WTF with C4??

C4 hasn't been nerfed enough and should fall off of fast moving vehicles. It's a extremely poweful explosive and to balance that power it has extremely limited range/speed of deployment - but jeep jihading is a way to bypass that limitation. C4 is meant to have 3 real uses. 1) Setting up a trap to destroy infantry/vehicles 2) Sneaking up on a vehicle planting it on them/near them and destroying them 3) Destroying commander assets. All of these intended uses require you to either be right next to your target or set up a stationary trap in advance.

DICE has said placing C4 on to a jeep jihad style is unintended gameplay element and thus an exploitation. That's the reason DICE has made a BFROE that allows you to disallow Jihad Jeeps because sadly they can't figure out how to patch it and fix the code so players can no longer exploit this. Using a Jihad Jeep is pretty much 100% guaranteed way to kill a tank or APC with zero skill involved and even if you're coming at them head on chances are you'll still be able to roll you damage vehicle within range, detonate and destroy them (and yourself of course).

Solution: Delays delays delays!

If you put C4 on the vehicle you are driving, put a delay in the amount of time it takes to trigger the C4 after exit. Or, better yet, if the vehicle is moving at full speed and the soldier jumps out to light it, kill the player that jumped out. I mean, seriously, if a buggy is doing 60mph and you're loaded with ammo and grenades and jump out, you're most likely not going to survive.

Another solution would be, to not let a person exit a vehicle that has been hit by a tank. Many many times, I'm in a tank and see a vodnik/humvee heading straight towards me. I square up, and lay a shell right in the center of the car. Direct hit, at least 50 feet away, but the driver still exits the car, car rolls to within 10 feet of me and he lights the C4! BS! If its full of C4 and I hit it with a tank, it should blow to smithereens!

[imported_Phenomenomenon]

Re: WTF with C4??

C4 hasn't been nerfed enough and should fall off of fast moving vehicles. It's a extremely poweful explosive and to balance that power it has extremely limited range/speed of deployment - but jeep jihading is a way to bypass that limitation. C4 is meant to have 3 real uses. 1) Setting up a trap to destroy infantry/vehicles 2) Sneaking up on a vehicle planting it on them/near them and destroying them 3) Destroying commander assets.All of these intended uses require you to either be right next to your target or set up a stationary trap in advance.

DICE has said placing C4 on to a jeep jihad style is unintended gameplay element and thus an exploitation. That's the reason DICE has made a BFROE that allows you to disallow Jihad Jeeps because sadly they can't figure out how to patch it and fix the code so players can no longer exploit this. Using a Jihad Jeep is pretty much 100% guaranteed way to kill a tank or APC with zero skill involved and even if you're coming at them head on chances are you'll still be able to roll you damage vehicle within range, detonate and destroy them (and yourself of course).

Who are you to say how C4 or a jeep should or should not be used? If DICE truly weighed in on the matter I'd like to see the source. Furthermore it's been around since 1942 surely if it was that much of an isssue they could have done something about it by now.


Aren't you the guy who relegates himself to bombing hapless ground targets from lofty heights in a plane?
Somethings you do in battlefield because it's tactically smart, not because it shows an amazing amount of skill. Is it that skillful to jump in a tow and blast an APC unawares? No. Is it good for the team? Yes.

If I can take out some scourge in armor with a jeep by loading it up with C4 and flying at it like a bat out of hell, more power to me. It's fine. IT'S FUN. and it doesn't bother game balance.

ok I see your point, but..

the better players have no need for such cheap tricks and belive me it becomes boring

if you concentrated on playing the game as it was meant to be played, you would probably find yourself higher up the point table (excluding all whores )

Meant to be played? Pfft They should make a revolutionary war game so you can play the British and get dismayed when the Yankees don't all line up in neat rows and face off against you.

Dice has described the series with terms like "sandbox". The way it should be played, is however a player chooses to use the tools at hand. As far as I'm concerned "Though shalt not purposefully TK" should be the whole of the law. Other than that lets have at it. If you don't like what someone is doing, counter it.

It seems like there are two types of people in online FPS's in reference to how they derive their fun.

Some like to have games governed by arbitrary third person rules and "codes of honor".
Others like utter freedom and the darwinian aspect of an "anything goes" online free for all.
It appears these two factions, by their very nature, will always be a threat to eachothers fun. Kinda tragic.

The base raping debate is an example of this.

Anyway, I appreciated your guys posts whether we agree or not.

[SirCyRo]

Re: WTF with C4??

Who are you to say how C4 or a jeep should or should not be used? If DICE truly weighed in on the matter I'd like to see the source. Furthermore it's been around since 1942 surely if it was that much of an isssue they could have done something about it by now.


Aren't you the guy who relegates himself to bombing hapless ground targets from lofty heights in a plane?
Somethings you do in battlefield because it's tactically smart, not because it shows an amazing amount of skill. Is it that skillful to jump in a tow and blast an APC unawares? No. Is it good for the team? Yes.

If I can take out some scourge in armor with a jeep by loading it up with C4 and flying at it like a bat out of hell, more power to me. It's fine. IT'S FUN. and it doesn't bother game balance.

I don't have a problem with the act of "jihad"ing. I have a problem with the fact that you can shoot an obvious jihader and he's still able to get out of the vehicle and activate his C4. It has always been my opinion that if you're unarmored vehicle (FAV, HUMVEE, VODNIK) is hit by a tank or APC rocket, AND it is loaded full of explosives (c4), it should blow up on impact. A lot of jihaders know that they still have a few seconds even after impact and can get the kill in. Other than that, Jihading is fine.