Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

[badge353]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

I agree with lynx..while EA/Dice does not do a good job in the PR department I would be reluctant to want to open myself to more bashing by a-holes....Are these all kids I can only hope and would wish to think that adults do not act like this but sadly I think is the case. I have alway gotten a response from EA when done in a mature manner but when you cuss at them and tell them they don't know what they are doing I wouldn't respond either. We all get pissed at the game my solution if you are so pissed quite playing. Most ***** and then turn aroud and play.

[~WPN~Major Ursa]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

My last post was a bit truncated due to time constraints, so I hope I made sense.

I really think the largest contributor to the animosity towards EA/DICE found on these boards is the Ranking system. Great idea on paper, but implementation was done so poorly that all of the greatness became overshadowed by "me first" styles of gameplay. BF1942/DC just did not have that atmosphere at all.

I also would like to comment on some of the "new" features we got through patches. Take a look back at some of the original promotional clips for BF2. Almost every "new" feature was originally intended to be included in the initial release. Why did they not make the initial release? Who really knows, BUT, I think it stems from deadline pressure.

The engine build for this game was very unusual. The code is like a giant braided cord. Adding to it forces you to create knots that connect and tie in new code with the old. Same thing for trying to remove bad code. This is why the red/blue tag bug has been with us from the start and it is THE main reason for most of the negative aspects of every patch that was released that claimed to "fix" it. The patchers could not go to one place and excise the bad code that caused the red/blue tag bug. Too many other aspects of the game shared the same code. Change something here and something WAYYY down the line gets FUBAR.

BF1942's engine was more compartmentalized and excising code was far easier. Almost EVERYTHING had its own code and very little sharing was built in. BUT BF1942 was not fluid because of this.

Think of Christmas Tree lights. Some strings will work if one bulb burns out, others comepletely go dark and force you to test each bulb in order to find the one that needs to be replaced. BF1942 would work with one bulb burned out, BF2 won't.

If you know much about code, you can compare the original promo clips with the original/unpatched gamecode. I bet you will see most, if not all of the "new" features. In order to meet a deadline, they just simply turned off that feature knowing that after release, they would have time to work out the problems and slide the "fix" in with the next patch. In a bit of PR, they told us we were getting something new. All the while, we were just getting a fresh bulb.

[Iwantcable]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

[DICE]CKMC is reading this lol.

anyways, it's probably cuz Activision knows how to make games? idk just a guess.

[Shepherd007]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

First off, I love BF2. I think the majority of reasons why we complain or post suggestions, is because we see the potential that BF2 fails to realize.

Here is why the relationship has gone sour, and people bash EA/DICE:

1) Serious bugs that everyone knows about, but have yet to be fixed (wall hack, blue/red tag, etc.).

2) Features added that were not requested, resulting in more bugs, exploits, or otherwise adversely affecting gameplay (car drops, etc.).

3) Balance issues or modifications requested by a great majority of players, but are ignored-
-Claymores used offensively, instead of defensively like in real life (i.e. turning on FF or making them triggered like C4)
-J10 balance
-AA nerf

4) Failure to post official announcements on the MAIN EA Games BF2 site when they are first released (patch announcements from EA Games Spain, etc.).

5) Ignoring the fan base about patch release delays or other news (e.g. the delay of 1.4 and the subsequent lack of news about the status of the delay, then releasing 1.4 without notifying the public).

[vesuvan]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Yeah, this forum has more people that complain rather then offer tips, strategies, help, etc. I'm relatively new, but from threads I read, it's mostly just complaining about this or that, with people arguing back and forth. What's the point? I'm not saying it's all like this, there is a lot of good info on here too. Perhaps people just ran out of things to say, so they begin to bit*h about stuff just to keep the forum flooded with topics.

[Repent]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

What this and any gaming community DON'T need is ignorant rants about how EA is Satan, and DiCE is the anit-christ.

Most of the complaint threads here on TBF2 sound like an 11 yeard old hyped up on Jolt cola.

If you have a legit complaint it should be taken to EA's BF2 feedback forum, starting thead after thread after thread of rants and complaints, and spewing how much EA hates everyone here on the TBF2 forums doesn't do anything but bring THIS community down.

If you want to REALLY help, then do your homework, save your .dmp files take fraps footage if you have to and send all over to the EA forum, PM the EA guys and complain to your hearts content, but doing it here is really useless.

[[DICE]CKMC]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Great discussion. Lets see if I am able to contribute without making a jerk of myself.

So my running personal theory on the Battlefield community is as follows. With 1942 and to a lesser extent Vietnam we had put out two titles that, although they received tremendous accolades, not very many people played. Specifically not many people on the world wide gaming concept.

Then with Battlefield 2 we found ourselves overwhelmed with player response. Our community base leaped up to numbers that were staggering to a small studio (we are still quite small). With this explosion in player base you will find that populations of both friendly and less friendly players will increase. We also found that the magnification to those points where we know we need to improve was also suddenly intensified.

Granted our initial reactions in patches was not ideal. But we have tried to learn from our mistakes. These lessons sometimes came with a little more difficulty than we would like but learning is not always a gentle process.

We are getting better and looking to bridge the gaps that have formed between our player and mod communities. Unfortunately this is not a fast process. In a situation where time is already spent we find ourselves asking for more so that we can make these improvements. Its natural, and quite expected, for patience to be thin at this point.

On a personal level I would love to sit and debate game play with comparative analysis. Sometimes I feel like there is a perception that dev's dont play games. Quite far from the truth. Regardless many times my role prevents me from 'shooting the $*%#' with you guys. Which also reflects on the public pressure developers face in many situations.

As a gamer I am protective of the games I play. Woe be the person who speaks poorly of my favorite game as they will be subject to my wrath. While I am then extremely negative on those games I dislike or have a 'sound moral reason' for not playing. While it could be simple to take the conclusion "you defend the games you like and denounce those you dont like" things are rarely ever that simple. I am just as vehement in my tirades about flaws in design or mechanic implementation in games I like as I am about how some that capitalize on sexual content. Since if I had my way every game I have ever loved would have been perfect and those I didnt love would never have been made making way for more games that I love.

As a developer people like me cause me no limit of stress. I know that if I were to say "We just made this great new kit and it has x, y, z features and is awseome" then I better be darn sure that x, y, z have already been made, tested and function perfectly. Same with patches. Saying "Ok we did tried this" is the exact same as saying "We have done this and it works perfectly and is in the next version". If 'this' is not implemented or cut because 'that' created conflicts that would have taken months to fix then I know I have just cost permanent detrimental damage to my relationship with players. I definitely know that ckmc guy on the forums is going to write comment after comment stating my flaws and inability to deliver on simple changes and improvements. Granted this is a generalization but please forgive this as I believe it lends the proper framework for understanding.

Overall we want to make things closer. As a studio we love playing our games and hanging out with other players. However we have to recognize that we have a business responsibility and its very easy for any boundaries between friendly players and "Provider & Customer" to disappear.

Hrm....dont think I made a jerk of myself.....we shall see.

[MrChris_CJ]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

roll back bf2 by a few patches and all will be fixed

[Cantina_Fly]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Lack of timely and accurate communication.

An overall lack of maturity in the vocal minority of the playerbase. Message boards tend to attract people looking for a place to complain, and they want a stage.

The Ranking system and it's absolutely inflexible nature. They say they can't add community made maps or mods to ranked servers because they aren't able to test them properly. BS. What are we, chopped liver? Players will naturally graviate to the best maps/mods. If you look at the stats and see people are abusing a particular map/mod, remove it from the list until it's fixed/updated.

Further artificial rules about how you have to play on said servers (ROE.) Which isn't all bad, but don't leave me to decide if the server I'm playing on breaks those rules. De-list them on the master server and be done with it.

A few of my random thoughts on the subject.

[Repent]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Great discussion. Lets see if I am able to contribute without making a jerk of myself.

So my running personal theory on the Battlefield community is as .................

Hrm....dont think I made a jerk of myself.....we shall see.

I think you guys are doing as good a job as you can considering all the circumstances, most of the people that do the biggest ammount of complaining and ranting, don't understand much of anything, much less the complications of developing a game that will make thousand s& thousands of people "happy".

I can barley keep my wife and 2 kids happy...

[MachineGunDave]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

What was so wrong with 1.12 that could be important enough to add lag, bugs, disconnects, non working server browser, and even more imbalance?

Why do they take the quickest approach to fixing everything.

Why dont they hire people who actually play the game instead of people who are just coding for money, like the guy said above anyone could have predicted vehicle drop abuse.

All these answers are the reason EA is the worst company ever.

While I can understand you may be having technical issues with some of the patches there are alot of people, myself included, who are having a lower frequency of technical issues with the latest (1.4) patch. BF2 is a PC game and there are almost unlimited amounts of various PC configurations that EA/Dice must try to anticipate and program the game for, then to top it off you have hundreds of various software situations that can creep up and you have to try to plan for that.

Making a PC game play perfect on each end users individual machine isn't nearly as easy as you are trying to make it out to be. Some effort by the end users are required to get the game running in various situations. If you can come up with a foolproof way to program a game for thousands upon thousands of different hardware and software configurations in a reasonable amount of time, then by all means, complain to EA/Dice and while you are at it put in a job application.

[Talus]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Thank you, Colin for your response.

To you TBF2 forum members: please be civil

[Sheeple Police]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Weapons that are not accurate or powerful enough + netcode that is crap and cant register hits * play movements that are ridiculous, silly, and add to your survival way too much = completely different community that enjoys BF2 compared to BF1942/DC.

This game has more in common with CS's playerbase compared to BF1942. You can see it in the server popularity (Karkland yay), choices of tactics (whatever will keep you alive and kill the other team, no matter how cheap), and the new IO mode is just a motivation to keep playing like that.

Oh, and the "one step forward, two steps back" everytime a new patch comes out leaves a very sour taste in your mouth.

#1. Red/blue tag bug never fixed even though many attempts have been made.
#2. Browser has gotten worse when compared with 1.2.
#3. Commander hijack bug/hack has never been fixed.
#4. Unbalanced jets (J-10) has never been addressed.
#5. Obvious kit imbalances. Support + nades = mortar, G36E best assault rifle in game but its for a medic, Assault kit has been nerfed to near uselessness (See G36E as well). And we had to wait for a mod to fix them (PoE2).

This is just a short list of what could/should have been addressed and never was.

[Iwantcable]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

I think stats is what pushed it over the edge. If you've ever been on an MMORPG forum, it's nearly all complaining. RPG like games get more money than normal. People want to get better guns so they can be better than everybody else and get more points.

[Paas]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

The diconnection feeling is what did it for me. I know the [Devs] say they play the game (and it would be illogical to think they don't), it just feels like they don't.

It's a harsh balance though, Dice/EA is a company, they are out to make money for their shareholders. They do have marketing firms, they do play with words and overexagerate some things, it's the nature of the beast; they want you to "BUY" the product... we as a community cannot expect a 90% Fan Base, 10% Shareholder mentality. On the same coin though, Dice/EA cannot expect to get away with a 90% Shareholder and 10% Fan Base state of mind.

Summary? It just feels distant, that's all. I don't know if it's too late or not to fix this rift. What I do know is the rift just keeps getting broader everytime a perceived "let down" occurs.

I'm rambling at this point; done.

{WP}Paas