Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

[Astralman]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

I used a similar analogy to describe Windows 95. Only my car had no tires on it at all.

[DIRTY]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Since im new to this forum and this is my second post i will try to make it short yet make some sence to what i have to say. I am not new to this pc combat gamer world. Deltaforce1,2,3 , BH DOWN, MOH, FLASHPOINT, Wolfenstein, call of duty 1,2 AND UO , bfv, and now bf2. To this point i would have to agree with Machine Gun Dave, a high level of problems come from the aspect of so many configs on dif systems out there. Every game i have played over the years has had its fixes needed and some issues have been cured others have not, thats the way of the beast, fix one thing other things pop up. DICE, I ''DIRTY" (always has been my game name with dif tags) , don't know you, but i will share this, in the past players would be part of the system, playing an active role, either as players, making maps, fixing bugs, starting div for competion, putting up servers, clanning, lan party's. So much, that some people would make a living out of it. They LOVED being involved that much. EA cut the little guy out, the guys with the answers to resolve most issue's. I have seen a guy spend thousands year after year maintaining servers for guys to play on, looking for fixes working with each other to help because everyone had a vested interest in it. Now ea says you want rank, you have to rent the server from us, thus cutting those group of guys out. that was the buffer between the players and the company, those guys delt with all these issues that people cry about, if not fixing them helping the company to fix them. so now people turn to the only avenue they have left to complain to, Don't knock them for it, they payed there money. I hope you guys don't take it as bitc*N but pc gaming was very much an ''us'' game not a company game. final note i still hope to game with most of you guys in the future and lob some nades at you :)

[Revoluti0n]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Nice post.
But developers lack compensate between the two big community's the clanners and pubbers.

You seem to forget something important here, we are all ultimately gamers. It should not matter if we are clanners or regular casual pubbers. The game should not be made to differentiate between the 2. That would be dividing the community even more by drawing a defining line and providing a definition that either makes people one or the other. One game, used to fulfill 2 seperate gamer needs. No need to start making even more fractions of the way thing are.

[imported_Nefarious]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Who here use to play Novalogic based games? For those of you who didnt let me explain. Novalogic is a publisher & developer. It creats and releases all its own games, boy have they had alot of games. Basically one every year since 2000. In any case, Novalogic is constantly blamed by the community for lack of interest, lack of communication and lack of updates. Though games like, Delta Force: Black HawK Down are still popular since its creation in 2003, Nova left the game in 2004, and many major issues in DF: BHD were never resolved, especially when it comes to vehicles and the Team Sabre expansion pack. Same with DF: Land Warrior as well.

What am I getting at? Comparing the Nova community to the BF2 community is like trying to compare a Mercedes GL-Class to a Honda CR-V. Its just not fair. The first time I played BF2 I was surprised to see Colin Clarke posting on totalbf2.com and reading the posts of several EA administraters. In Novalogic forums u rarely see it. I think the BF2 community is maybe asking a biiiiitttt much. Some of us here are asking for perfection and we all kno thats not possible. I think we should all be happy with what we have. Cause u got to admit.....it could be worse.

[stilla-killa]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Who here use to play Novalogic based games? For those of you who didnt let me explain. Novalogic is a publisher & developer. It creats and releases all its own games, boy have they had alot of games. Basically one every year since 2000. In any case, Novalogic is constantly blamed by the community for lack of interest, lack of communication and lack of updates. Though games like, Delta Force: Black HawK Down are still popular since its creation in 2003, Nova left the game in 2004, and many major issues in DF: BHD were never resolved, especially when it comes to vehicles and the Team Sabre expansion pack. Same with DF: Land Warrior as well.

What am I getting at? Comparing the Nova community to the BF2 community is like trying to compare a Mercedes GL-Class to a Honda CR-V. Its just not fair. The first time I played BF2 I was surprised to see Colin Clarke posting on totalbf2.com and reading the posts of several EA administraters. In Novalogic forums u rarely see it. I think the BF2 community is maybe asking a biiiiitttt much. Some of us here are asking for perfection and we all kno thats not possible. I think we should all be happy with what we have. Cause u got to admit.....it could be worse.

now bhd is full of cheaters or so i have heard. i used to play the game and loved it and i used to post over at novaworld forums alot back in the day. i prob would still play the game if bf2 had never came out.

[Moonstar]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

I think because of lack of communication with the community (which seems to be improving). Completely disregarding the clan part of community ... 10.000+ people signed the petition against removing the squad hopping FEATURE, because it was a feature before it suddenly became a bug (on which no one complained, btw.). For those many votes, they could have at least put it as a server option.
Also not listening to any ideas, instead implementing something no one even thought of, destabilizing the game .. etc

I would agree with Major Ursa in BF1942 being a more complete game then BF2. But i would call it a game with a soul. It was indeed a more teamwork orientated game. But it also allowed players skill to be developed, you had people that were extremly good at tanking, infantry, piloting ... at BF2 there is no such thing. "average joe" can own everyone in every aspect of the game, there is no REAL reward in continuously playing the game, except meaningless points. And when someone tries to develop some skill, be better in something then most people .. with new patch thats labeled as an exploit and removed/nerfed (such as prone spamming for example).
In BF1942 in infantry battle you had strafing, which you can also label as "fishy" but it required skill, not everyone could do it, only those who wanted to be good learned it.

Also dogfights were way better in BF1942, it was almost an art to fly a plane real good, to outwit your opponent. In BF2 its come down to who'll get a first lock, or who has better sensitivity settings. Tank battles also required skill, to really learn how to operate and shoot with a tank, to become expert. In BF2, you guess, everyone can kill everyone in tank regardless of skill.

I'm almost affraid to learn, master some new moves, new things in BF2 .. cause that might be an exploit in the next patch, so why bother?
They're changing the gameplay too much instead of focusing on real stability/bug issues.

Long post, sry ... i'm on coffein, it's 5AM :))

[(4THIDUSA) SSG H.]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

but, your 10,000 signatures, compared to a million ranked users, are meaningless, EA/DICE evaluated how the squad jumping was being abused, against the way they meant it to be used, it is a case closed, not your area to keep demanding they give you the option to abuse the mechanics they didnt intend for you to abuse, that is listening to the community, they heard both sides, they made the decision, how hard is it to respect that and move on

No one complained about it?? did you bother to read any thread here or anywhere, where it was hated and praised??

Sorry to say, but it is the clans, that find and abuse exploits, then call it skill, when it gets taken away

They change the gameplay in response to how it gets abused

Have I complained about this game?, yes I have, and still do, do I own shares in ERTS? ( EA stock), yes I do, that is truth in advertising, I have a stake in what EA does for me, but I still complain and argue about this game

[Moonstar]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

No one complained about it?? did you bother to read any thread here or anywhere, where it was hated and praised??

I did actually, and i meant i haven't seen anyone complaining before they removed it, not afterwards. Also does it takes a year to "realise" it's an exploit?

Sorry to say, but it is the clans, that find and abuse exploits, then call it skill, when it gets taken away.
They change the gameplay in response to how it gets abused

Well i'm not here to debate clan vs pubbers issue, and btw. you are wrong. Speaking for me and my clan, we all raised our skill individualy on pub servers as any ordinary player (or are you now gonna say clan players are just smarter then pubbers? which is a stupid statment:)).... but
- learned c4 tossing ... baaam exploit
- noob tubing - baaam exploit
- prone spamming - baaam exploit
- squad hopping - baaam exploit
- dolphin diving - baam exploit
- list goes on....

Now, what skill this game provides? Is it just quick reflexes? whos the first to saw one another, first to crouch/prone wins? Or is long distance shooting only skill in this game? name another?

And even if you do, how do you know it wont be an exploit tommorow?
Why bother trying to learn new moves when they will prolly be proclaimed as exploits?
What one gets in terms of an advantage of playing numerous hours, except the points and wasted time?

[Turnip]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

I did actually, and i meant i haven't seen anyone complaining before they removed it, not afterwards. Also does it takes a year to "realise" it's an exploit?



Well i'm not here to debate clan vs pubbers issue, and btw. you are wrong. Speaking for me and my clan, we all raised our skill individualy on pub servers as any ordinary player (or are you now gonna say clan players are just smarter then pubbers? which is a stupid statment:)).... but
- learned c4 tossing ... baaam exploit
- noob tubing - baaam exploit
- prone spamming - baaam exploit
- squad hopping - baaam exploit
- dolphin diving - baam exploit
- list goes on....

Now, what skill this game provides? Is it just quick reflexes? whos the first to saw one another, first to crouch/prone wins? Or is long distance shooting only skill in this game? name another?

And even if you do, how do you know it wont be an exploit tommorow?
Why bother trying to learn new moves when they will prolly be proclaimed as exploits?
What one gets in terms of an advantage of playing numerous hours, except the points and wasted time?

The difference is cheese, quick and simple cheese.

[unAimed]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Expanison Pack Weapons in BF2 Vanilla??? !!!

That ruined the game for me.

I dont want to buy crappy expansions to be on an even level with the rest when i play vanilla maps on vanilla servers!!!

[*FMJ*Bird]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

The real answer to all of this is......


POE2.

We all thought PoE2 would be the next coming of Christ and we poured our hopes into it. Its pretty good. 7 of 10 at best. Great infantry. Has a distance to go before it will get a mass following.

Player count was going good there for the first few days now its dying off after the 1.4 patch. I hope after jalala dies off people return. The maps are just not what we had in PoE1. They are good in thier own way, but they are missing the extra edge people were looking for.

After getting a number of great urban maps in prior mod releases its apparent that the majority are let down with all the forest, and plains mapping. Retreads of each other in many respects. A few are almost unplayable. Unless the next releases are flooded with conent and scenery changes our hopes will have to carry over to Forgotten Hope and Dcon. All indications so far is they will suffer the same setbacks and limitations so obvious in the already released mods. Its a tough future for modding. Too much work and too little return in this environment.

I want Dcon to be good so bad but it looks like a BF2 reskin job. Sure many elements will be different but will it be enough to blow everyone away and attract the 1000's of players we all hope to see playing, doubtful. Maybe the maps will be just enough to get it over the rank addictions.

[imported_goya]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

why does this, or for that matter, any forum need good relationships with dice/ea.

do the people who run this forum get gifts or payments from dice/ea, that would be a conflict of interest and a sell out to dice/wa and bad to the community.

people complain because there are long unfixed problems with these games and because it appears that dice/ea abandon games.

[pistolhamster]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

Not a lot needs doing with BF2 for it to be nearly perfect. The red/blue tag bug is one, but prioritizing anti-cheat code and defeat glitchers, and make extra sure the game doesn't crash goes a long way. There will always be moaning and whining over perceived imbalances. Not a lot to do about it I think. Fix one thing, you end up breaking another. Nerf the nades, you end up buffing some absurd thing no one thought about, and the whining resumes.

I hope BF2 1.4 will have its new bugs fixed, such as the broken server browser. Its a fun game overall, and having spend 160 hours playing since last year, I'd be a liar if I said that getting BF2142 was totally out of the question.

Expanison Pack Weapons in BF2 Vanilla??? !!!

That ruined the game for me.

I dont want to buy crappy expansions to be on an even level with the rest when i play vanilla maps on vanilla servers!!!

Thing is it wasn't a crap expansion pack. But stat whores were afraid of playing in the dark because their kill rations suffered.

Sometimes I wish that score towards rank in this game was doled out in relation to time spent in round AND whether you win or lose. That might give a few more people a wish to coop more, and remove the karkand 24/7 whores.

You seem to forget something important here, we are all ultimately gamers. It should not matter if we are clanners or regular casual pubbers. The game should not be made to differentiate between the 2. That would be dividing the community even more by drawing a defining line and providing a definition that either makes people one or the other. One game, used to fulfill 2 seperate gamer needs. No need to start making even more fractions of the way thing are.

Yes, clanners should find their space within the overall game frame. Do not forget that pubbers are the herds of grazers that gives birth to the specialized clanners. Without the herd of pub sheeps, clanners would have no material to eat. .. er, recruit from. A game should never cater to clanners, but allow for them within the larger picture, possibly even encouraging. Just not bending over backwards.

Great discussion. Lets see if I am able to contribute without making a jerk of myself.

Hrm....dont think I made a jerk of myself.....we shall see. :)

No, it was a very reasonable and thought out post. But it still doesn't answer this question that burns on the tongue: Why all the changes? Not just fixes, but far reaching changes that snowballs. Seems like you are still chasing down fires at patch 1.4 that you began with the very first patch. Infantry Mode and Cartillery are the the biggest mysteries to me so far. Why? Change for the sake of change? New maps are good! Newfangled half-thought out modes of gameplay or features that we didn't miss in the first place are bad!

[eggman]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

@COLIN

Good response, tough situation, good balls to step in and say a word.

I think you are missing an aspect of what's been damaging to the franchise with the release of BF2... the ranked server business model and the points whoring for new toys *completely* changes the player dynamic. And frankly y'all were poorly set up to manage that.

All of a sudden you now have players with some sort of sense of entitlement because they toiled so hard to "level up" to get that new toy. It's an RPG mindset and RPG publishers have very mature tools and systems for dealing with this.

In addition, the relationship that was cultivated with the mod community with the BF '42 and BF:V series has been really damaged by the business model and the lack of clear direction and support for modders.

I dunno if this is irrepairable damage to the franchise, but I'm not too sure how much further you can take it past 2142 and a couple of booster packs.

I think a riskier proposition, but one with more "legs" over the long haul would have been to see if you could cultivate commercial relationships with the mod communities. Sort of a Valve / Steam model.

Not saying that you'd get involved in dealing with the bickering over money that would emerge within some of the mod teams, but certinaly having a ranked mod & map program (where some mods may choose to only use the ranking program as statistics) would likely give you more content developers than you can cost effectively staff yourselves.

As a result I think you'd see more mods keeping players moree satisfied and potentially more mods moving to 2142 where you might consider taking the program to the next level (a la Red Orchestra's model).

[Astralman]

Re: Why is this forums relationship with DICE/EA damaged?

I dunno...I appreciate one who is involved taking interest, but I did detect a wee bit of "they won't let us", referring to the corporate overlords (EA). Just as I said. All the underlying reasons why things aren't getting done lie with management and not the craftsmen. Like I said, developers (who do the actual coding and design) aren't the topic of discussion in the board room, unless it's their salaries and bonuses...which eat into that profit margin.