PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

[DosX]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Thanks for that Sn0wbl1nd, he's just trying to be an e-thug.

Trying to discredit me by finding my player name. I'd never stoop to that level though.

I'd never come here and report all the names I found for him, like:

{HHx}b14ze**CHEATS**, {HHx}b14ze-DirtCheat, {HHx}b14ze1bigHacker, {HHx}b14ze==HACKS==, {HHx}b14zeAllwaysHax, {HHx}b14zeBigCheater, {HHx}b14zeCheatDog, {HHx}b14zeFUcheater, {HHx}b14zeGetOutNow, {HHx}b14zeHacksU2, {HHx}b14zeHaxMaster, {HHx}b14zeMaxMatchs, {HHx}b14zeIsCheating, {HHx}b14zeISHacking, {HHx}b14zeNO.1Hacker, {HHx}b14zePunkBusted, {HHx}b14zeRUNSHacks, {HHx}b14zeRUNSHax, {HHx}b14zeURbusted, {HHx}b14zeURcaught, {HHx}b14zeWeCUCheat, {HHx}b14zeWeGotVidio, {HHx}b14zeWeNoUcheat

Nope, you'll not get that from me

And to retopic this.... my question still stands unanswered.

How does PunkBuster know the difference between a Nostromo user who uses key combination macros, and a Nostromo user who has single keys remapped to his keypad?

[disfigured]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

How does PunkBuster know the difference between a Nostromo user who uses key combination macros, and a Nostromo user who has single keys remapped to his keypad?

It probably can't. I don't know the specifics of any of it. You could probably use any device that simply relocates keys to a better more ergonomic set up (Nostromo, joystick, TimberWolf, or other), never use it's marco feature and be safe. As it should be, for anyone.

You've only got 10 fingers. Everyone only has 10 fingers, some may have less and to those people you have my condolences.

All any device does is make those 10 fingers access keys in a different configuration. You can have a joystick with buttons that add to the total ammount of keys then any normal keyboard and mouse combination. But you still only have two hands with 5 fingers on each to access them. Take your hand off your keyboard and put it on a joystick with a bazillion keys and you can still only use 5 of them at any give time.

Granted some may be able to allow you to access better keys. More scroll wheels, and two way switches , which is an advantage. But that can only go so far. Having a scroll wheel on every finger rather then a key stroke or "pickle" might seem like an advantage. But using an additional scroll wheel still requires that fingers make two different distinct motions. Up or down, or even up, down and push (if its a depressable scroll wheel). Your still limited by the ammount of appendages on either hand.

Is it an advantage to master a Nostromo even with out using it macro feature? Maybe , but at least with hardware devices like these, there's a limit. As I've described above, it's limited to your ability to manipulate the keys. It's also debateable that moving keystrokes into a different configuration via hardware devices is an advantage at all. There were many pilots in BF42' who were excellent with standard keyboard and mouse set ups.

Where I personally have to draw the line is when a macro creates a condition where one finger can act like 3, 4, 5, 10, 12 , or 20 fingers, flawlessy and with perfect reproduction everytime. That's I feel it has to be stopped. As much as an innocent few key strokes like your medic bag toss are probably nothing to sneeze at, it's set's a precedent that becomes unacceptable (IMO).

How far could it go..? Just take a look at the Volx videos, do you want that? Do you want every player in a game doing that? Even if you could kill them as much as they kill you, it essentially takes advantage of the game mechanics, character motions, and other elements to the point where a game that was visually stunning, now looks completely stupid.

First of all I dont use Macros, if I ever got used to them I would get owned if I play on another PC.
But I dont think they are cheating, because it is a capability of the game, all people are doing is getting an advantage, thats all, It is no different than having a good video card that allows u to tell if theres a sniper under a bush or its just the bush's shadow, or a nice soundcard that can let u hear when some one is coming from behind.

I've never seen anywhere that better grahpics or sound make you a better player (although sound could be debatable). Infact there has been some debate that worse graphics are an advantage. Graphics and Sound are apples and oranges, when compared to marcos. Even if they were an advantage it's not against the ROE. As much as it's a flawed document, it doesn't mention anything about limiting or inforcing any graphical or audio standard. What it does mention is "Third Party Programs", which J2K is, and the software that is bundled with many devices.

Macros Cant AIM, Macros cant drive a tank or fly a plane, Macros dont make you Invincible, Macros dont make you Invisible, Macros cant shoot thru walls, Macros cant see thru walls, etc.
Deal with it

Not yet anyway. But theoretically some one could create a marcro for jumping and shooting from behind a wall. It could execute a jump and fire over and over again flawlessy. So fast and effecient it would nearly have the advantage of being able to shoot through walls. By accepting macros as "just part of the evolution of games" you'd also have accept that circumstance. Should a person be able to have macros set up for many many circumstances that come up? Or even worse for very specific areas on each map? Because that's what will happen. There's no limit to how many commands and individual "setups" for exploiting map conditions, character motions, and other game elements. It will be and already is used to "exploit" no matter how you define the word. By many now? no. But that's not a reason not to see what's comming.

That's basically my point, there has to be a line drawn. For the gaming companies and people who play. Personally I draw the line myself and don't use them as do you. Which I respect. But I don't think we can rely on everyone just "saving some time" or "simplyfing" things as their motivation to use macros. People will find and use anything to give them an advantage, it's the nature of human competitiveness. I just feel allowing them to access and implement endless lines of codes that manipulate keyboard strokes is where we have to "Draw the Line".

[Sn0wbl1nd]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

How does PunkBuster know the difference between a Nostromo user who uses key combination macros, and a Nostromo user who has single keys remapped to his keypad?

its not the binding that sets off pb its the 3rd party program that will set pb off. i have seen this already either in this forum or somewhere else i cant member. it will kick u for running certain macro software.

if ur nostromo or g15 came with this software and is part of ur install with the drivers ther might b a problem but i seriously doubt it. binding keys is done in game and will never b a problem. the macro is not binded in game its binded someplace else either within windows or a 3rd party software. thats where pb comes in but only on the 3rd party software not within windows.

the problem it seems is that pb cant detect all them and cant determine which are being used for game enhancing macros or just the everday i want to hit a button check my email start a virus scan and empty my recycle bin all with the touch of a button. macros have ther place in the real world of computing but with that knowledge its hard to police it in games.

[lostinspace]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

its not the binding that sets off pb its the 3rd party program that will set pb off. i have seen this already either in this forum or somewhere else i cant member. it will kick u for running certain macro software.

I don't think 3rd party includes software that comes with a device, like a Nostromo or joystick...

3rd party is software like autohotkey and joy2key...

[W_Parmenter]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

I don't think 3rd party includes software that comes with a device, like a Nostromo or joystick...

3rd party is software like autohotkey and joy2key...

Which seems backward to me. Free software available to everyone is cheating, but if you can afford to spend the money it's ok to have that functionality? But apparently you're right, I checked the literature which came with SF and it provides a rebate on a G15, highlighting the "18 fully programable macro keys". So it's basically EA saying "Here, buy this great device which lets you use macros but *wink wink* don't do that".

[Rock_FU]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Yeah, but macros CAN allow a solo helo pilot switch seats, fire off the TV guide and guide it perfectly smooth and switch back all in the push of one button.

I dont care about the switching seats, but the macro that allows them not to have to click the TV to guide it is definately a cheat in my books. Who knows if PB is ever going to be able to prevent that. Anyway, if this was said before I apologize, I didnt read this whole thread.

[lostinspace]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Who knows if PB is ever going to be able to prevent that.

They are able to prevent all this and more...

Question is; are we all willing to pay the price..?
Before you know it, your own joystick software will be banned...

[old sch00l]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

I wouldn't worry, joystick software will be ok

your macro shouldn't

[mudgunner]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

i agree that any external program that ataaches itself to the game file to give an advantage should be instant banning, this would exclude teamspeak and programs as such because they are not running off the game itself. I do however feel as if the higher priority for pb is to find the new hacks being written and keeping a heads up instead of a head up their ***. I am now realizing pb is just like argus, it only detects the program it knows if its unfamiliar then it remains that way. i personally think these people that go to these measures to improve their game should just spend time and practice like everyone else otherwise they are a waste of flesh and blood and in my opinion a big problem in the world cause you really think these people only cheat in a game, no they will cheat lie and steal to get ahead any way they can cause they know they are weak feeble minded clams that cannot survive otherwise kind of like george w bush and his whole family

[SpeedyGonzales]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Hi Guys.. on a recent chat with Punkuster Stuart Dunsmore, he told us (ABR Staff http://www.battlefieldranking.net) about some thing related with PB and patch 1.4.

First of all, all we server admins are having a real hard time trying to get out of our servers all the Pronespammers, Bunny Hoppers and macro abusers. So, I ask Stuart about the official statement of PB over this subject.

He told us that PunkBuster is right now getting their hands over the clients running macro scripts over Battlefield 2... at this particular moment, they could kick all players for using macro software. The thing is, it is up to the community to ask for full punkbuster support about macro abusers.

On Stuart's own words:

""Our current stance on macros is that they are game exploits, we do not kick for doing something that is possible to do in the game manually. This is something that could change with enough community support."."

We, the community, have to speak up .. LOUD and start pushing foward to get full punkbuster support to stop the macro abusers. Is our particular Job to talk about this.

Also Stuart told us. about new changes on 1.4 patch. This will probably kill a lot of players using cheats or scripts to "improve" their gameplay.

Post your opinnions to get support on this.

(News Item Published at http://www.battlefieldranking.net)

punkbuster is a sham. Its a disgrace. Its useless. There are aimbot/radar
hacks that have been out since a week after BF2 was released that still
work to this day.

If punkbuster is going to get into the player movement (monitoring the
way player movements are, bunny hop, prone, etc etc.) thats a laugh.

Punkbuster should concentrate on stopping cheaters. Nothing else. So far
they get a F in my book. But thats nothing new, theyve always been useless.

[kingyuk]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

yay about time they get rid of macro users god I hate them :)

[Screaming_Bunny]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

So let me get this straight. I bought a Logitech G5 mouse, and a G15 keyboard partly because I got a coupon from EA when I purchased BF2:SF. I was under the impression that EA endorsed these products because they included the coupons with the game, and as the above poster mentioned, they touted the 18 fully programable macro keys. So who do I belive? A bunch of internet forum posters, or EA? If EA is now saying that I can't use macros, then I want a refund for both my keyboard and mouse.

[mudgunner]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

the fact is EA is not even sure what they are doin, i mean if they did there wouldnt be a new patch coming out very often. To top it all off they are putting their efforts towards new bf's when they havent even done bf2 right. the big picture is it is aboput money not customer satisfaction. you really think they care about the other things you bought or the time you have put in the game, no they already have their money. I personally dont take EA'a word on anything

[Sn0wbl1nd]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

So let me get this straight. I bought a Logitech G5 mouse, and a G15 keyboard partly because I got a coupon from EA when I purchased BF2:SF. I was under the impression that EA endorsed these products because they included the coupons with the game, and as the above poster mentioned, they touted the 18 fully programable macro keys. So who do I belive? A bunch of internet forum posters, or EA? If EA is now saying that I can't use macros, then I want a refund for both my keyboard and mouse.

well u have to make ur own choice in what u believe but chew on this for a sec. is it legal to bind a key that would allow u to quickswitch to tv gunner seat and tv gunner mode and fire a rocket and just glide ur mouse over to the target instead of having to click it 4 to 10 times and once u let go of ur mouse button u can quickswitch back to the fly boy seat. now ask urself is that legal or is that a cheat. in my eyes its a cheat but if ea wants to make it so that its legal then fine let it b legal and lets get a true space on the web dedicated to our cheats errr..... sry macros and lets all use them so that the battlefield is fair for all not just better for some.