The Aviators Guide

Re: The Aviators Guide

Maybe this is why you're confused Chris. Ah it's all starting to make sense now. Rather than bothering arguing back and forth about a key element of why my method is best I decided to make a quick video to put the nail in the coffin.

http://media.putfile.com/Bomb-versus-Tank

Thats right, 1 bomb on a tank is an insta-kill most of the time...

btw nice video :)

Re: The Aviators Guide

A single bomb brings a tank to near 50% health. Not flames.

Maybe this is why you're confused Chris. Ah it's all starting to make sense now. Rather than bothering arguing back and forth about a key element of why my method is best I decided to make a quick video to put the nail in the coffin.

http://media.putfile.com/Bomb-versus-Tank

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Aviators Guide

AFAIK, that was shot over about 2 rounds of wake island on his mate's (lazarus) computer, well that's the story anyway.. Yeah xennore is a bit of a freak, i've been on the recieving end of his bombs and A2A before and he makes it all so simple and systematic..

Xennore: is that video link a 'finished' version of the video, or that one that has been up for a while? because i have the old one and don't wanna d/l it again, i have to watch my downloads atm

Xennore, if thats a mistake, dont blame it on PW. It started from this quote.

Re: The Aviators Guide

Oh yeah, well I just played a 12 minute round of Strike at Karkand and ended the round with 250 points playing nothing but AT and it's obviously true because I said so right?

Not doubting at all that he did in fact get the footage which was not overly impressive over two rounds but just pointing that just because someone says something does not make it true. It's a little odd he'd even mention how long it took him to get the footage and would indicate that it is perhaps cherry picked.

Find the post were i said that i got the footage over 2 rounds of wake

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Aviators Guide

Intention is irrelevant. A single bomb can and does kill an APC unaided and brings a tank to flames and like it or not the cannon damages tanks just fine and less than a second worth of cannons brings a tank down enough to where the bomb will insta-kill the tank.

A single bomb brings a tank to near 50% health. Not flames.

True both methods "work" but one method is clearly superior and simply by using it you become a more efficient pilot and you conserve your bombs for the targets that really do require them like tanks.

And I have never said it wasnt so. While you so foolishly believe that I take one method above others like you do right now, I dont. I simply say that I have so many tricks in my arsenal that I can do anything at any time, which in turn not only saves my time, but also boosts my efficiency. This never has been "Method A is clearly overall better than Method B". Well, it is for you...

It's the same approach I take when I play infantry - ´...

Here you go. Since SWAT4, I use the best weapon to fulfill its role in certain area.
I dont even play "kits", I just play "weapons". Long distance maps, G36C. CQC, Remington. Variable distances, M16/AK101.

I could go on and on but bottom line is bombs are a critical component to being an effective pilot and if you're dropping them on targets that don't require bombs then you're either not killing the targets that do require them - and/or speding a HELL of a lot more time heading back to your airbase to reload which drops your kill efficiency quite a bit.

Absolutely. But what youre once again forgetting about me is that I dont spend my time attacking STAs in order to attack ground targets. I spend my time sweeping the skies. The way this works for me is-
If a flag doesnt turn white, I fly with a full payload, blast the first STA (maybe) I see, with the cannons, take altitude and then cruise around in search for aerial targets. If theres a flag that turned white, I drop. If theres a tank/APC spotted, I drop.

BF2 flight for me and its fun does not lie in points nor SPM. I dont mind using the plane to attack the ground and make 50-90 kills a round, but sooner or later I will be distracted by other jets and I will be doing more dogfighting. Competitive nature.

We're talking about the most effective way to go about using an aircraft and once you resort to the "personal pleasure" debate you lose.

And I said it before, my stance is that the more cards you have in your sleeves the more unpredictable you are. If you can drop bombs with precision in a middle of a dogfight, your skills benefit you.

When I'm on the ground as infantry pinned down by a tank and I see bombs hitting the enemy S2A rather than this tank that's stopping our advance I'm going to be pissed that our pilot is a useless retard.

What makes you think I would rather bomb an STA site than a tank? Because I said bombing STA is great from high altitude because it offers relative safety? If theres a tank spotted at enemy flag which I see a squad is about to cap, you bet theres bombs coming down, on that tank. I value minimap far more than most pilots.

Point being intetion is irrelevant and the cannons do exist and are superior to bombs for certain tasks. The main task is of course dealing with S2A and as such your primary target for this high altitude bomb drop an incorrect target to begin with.

And so are grenades...

As for targets, youre stuck on some fabricated fact that I run around in a jet bombing STA sites from high altitude. I dont. Its just one scenario.

You need to incorporate them more then. People ask me all the time how I manage to get a minimum of 60 kills every game and often times upwards of 100 kills and the answer is simple - cannons. When you go for these extreme kill counts it's vital that you spend as little time reloading as possible because thats wasted time.

If Id go into extreme kill counts, I would be bored to tears with jets. Flying and creating maximum impact to the ground has lost its appeal ever since I got a joystick last year and flew for a week or two doing just that- evading every dogfight and bombing/attacking as much as possible. Somewhere near September uninstallation was in order and I played SWAT4 for more than 6 months almost without touching BF2. What keeps me interested in jet aspect of BF2? Dogfighting.

And while I value the importance of ATS capabilities and role of the jet, Ive done my share of work to ensure that I can fulfill my purpose.

Lead on cannons is minimal on most targets. Spend that time you spend perfecting multiple bombing methods on leading cannons and I believe you'll get much more satasfactory results when piloting. Cannons are god.

Youve never tried using cannons at 250 ping, have you? Its quite a challenge. Even now, at 150ish ping I have in most US East Coast servers, I have to lead about 10-30 feet from a cars first wheel, and about 10-30 feet below it/closer to me in order to get a hit. Its quite an art.

I realize this but you've really made my point for me - if you aren't getting 100% direct hits most of the time you drop that bomb then it's an inferior way to bomb.

As I said, dont judge my skills by a poor video which I made in severe conditions. I made that video to prove a point to certain gentlemen. "Inferior" is really "best/worst depending on a situation".

The fact still remains that you're spending twice the ammo for the same result. Then we go right back to one of my initial points that if you can only manage one tank kill on a bomb load then you're going to be spending a hell of a lot more time reloading or ignoring targets.

With maps being that small, this can be greatly compensated by attacking targets that indeed offer more points. Youre describing pilots with sever tunnel vision. "Reload- uncap- reload". This isnt me.

Like you said yourself those are cherry picked kills from probably 100s of gigs of fraps footage. Hitting and killing people in a jeep takes no more precision that hitting and destroying infantry on the ground. You can hit from what seems like 50 feet away in any direction and still kill whomever is in the jeep - leaving the occupants dead and the jeep mostly undamaged. Tanks require 2 extremely close bombs to destroy or 1 direct bomb and as a result is a much more difficult target than a fast moving jeep could ever be.

Not Xennores own words, but its said that the footage is made using 2 rounds in Wake, which he didnt deny (even though he has commented in this very topic). I think he left a LOT of kills out and just demonstrated one very impressive method. If you still havent figured it out- it was a demonstration video of 2 things
*high altitude precision drops
*free chase cam utilization in a dogfight

I dont judge your dogfighting abilities by the videos youve provided with you chasing F35Bs in a rather poor and unskilled fashion, I could.

That's fine but we're not talking about which is more fun but which is more efficient.

And more efficient is "more tricks".

Re: The Aviators Guide

Well I was just reminding you. I dunno really.

Re: The Aviators Guide

Planewhore, he said that he got the footage over 2 rounds of wake island.

Oh yeah, well I just played a 12 minute round of Strike at Karkand and ended the round with 250 points playing nothing but AT and it's obviously true because I said so right?

Not doubting at all that he did in fact get the footage which was not overly impressive over two rounds but just pointing that just because someone says something does not make it true. It's a little odd he'd even mention how long it took him to get the footage and would indicate that it is perhaps cherry picked.

Re: The Aviators Guide

Planewhore, he said that he got the footage over 2 rounds of wake island.

Re: The Aviators Guide

I dont really think DICE intended the cannons to be primary weapon. Or else they wouldnt have added bombs that would destroy a tank in one double drop, or an APC in one single drop.

Intention is irrelevant. A single bomb can and does kill an APC unaided and brings a tank to flames and like it or not the cannon damages tanks just fine and less than a second worth of cannons brings a tank down enough to where the bomb will insta-kill the tank.

So in the end, if both methods work, who cares if you use any of those?

True both methods "work" but one method is clearly superior and simply by using it you become a more efficient pilot and you conserve your bombs for the targets that really do require them like tanks. Your infantry will thank you because I speak from experience on both sides of the equation when I say nothing is nicer than having that tank blocking your route to the next flag bombed and destroyed.

Accuracy is something you learn with every method. Be it dive, high-alt, horizontal. You can get the same, high accuracy with EACH method you choose. This is an undeniable fact. Efficiency and kills speed, the method you describe as "yours" is the fastest and most "profitable". BUT, doesnt deny that other methods work.

It's the same approach I take when I play infantry - I use only the G36E when I play infantry and I'm zen with that gun but if I spent time with other guns not only would I get less practice with the G36E but the different guns require different firing techniques which would interfere with the firing technique I've built up with the G36E. The difference with airplane bombing techniques is unlike weapons in this game there is one undisputed champion of bombing techniques. I understand that you could potentially use other techniques (or guns) and still kill people but you won't get as many quality kills nor will you kill the same number.

Accoording to your opinion. I take STA as a target as any. Bombing, strafing, it makes absolutely no difference to me. What I do care about is the ability to attack any target, at almost any situation I encounter, at a formidable efficiency.

Treating all targets the same is a bad piloting habit that many pilots have. When you see a tank you should drop a bomb. On a S2A site you should gun them because it's the most accurate safest and fastest method available. I could go on and on but bottom line is bombs are a critical component to being an effective pilot and if you're dropping them on targets that don't require bombs then you're either not killing the targets that do require them - and/or speding a HELL of a lot more time heading back to your airbase to reload which drops your kill efficiency quite a bit.

Absolutely. Best defense is attack. But heres the general difference in gamestyle. I simply do not have the time to take care of every STA site I encounter. More often than not, In fact most of my game, Im engaged against aerial targets. ATS is secondary to me, so are the ground targets. This has nothing to do with team efficiency, but rather a simple example of MY OWN personal pleasure from the game. Im a dogfighter, whereas you clear STA sites to have a safe attack area, I cruise around at 300-400 to find enemy jets.

We're talking about the most effective way to go about using an aircraft and once you resort to the "personal pleasure" debate you lose.

I know very well what cannons can do. The underestimation, even if there is, comes from the fact that the vast... vast majority of my game has been spent in servers with above 150 ms ping, usually somewhere at 200. Which is where missiles and bombs matter more than cannons. Notice that I have yet to say that bombing STA is the only and true way. Im saying that its perfectly legit way. And just because YOU think its not, doesnt mean it is.

You're viewing this from your own little perspective. When I'm on the ground as infantry pinned down by a tank and I see bombs hitting the enemy S2A rather than this tank that's stopping our advance I'm going to be pissed that our pilot is a useless retard. I've seen it happen ingame countless times but when you get a pilot that attacks hard targets and saves his bomb exclusively for them it's very nice.

Just for your pleasure. Do you know why people spam grenades in Karkand? Because they kill the fastest. Why waste bullets on a target when you can kill them with one nicely placed grenade. If you master grenade throwing, you can drop anyone at any time, at any angle. Just because DICE didnt design grenades to be primaries, doesnt mean the players wont use them as such... Same for cannons. Cannons were most probably designed by DICE for close distance dogfights, yet they have become an universal answer to ANY threat... Like grenades in Karkand...

Cannons are hardly universal because you can't rely on cannons to destroy tanks in a reasonable amount of time nor can most pilots use purely cannons to destroy an APC in a single pass (but it is possible). Point being intetion is irrelevant and the cannons do exist and are superior to bombs for certain tasks. The main task is of course dealing with S2A and as such your primary target for this high altitude bomb drop an incorrect target to begin with.

Sorry, thats one of those "touche" moments. I guess what I want to say is that I dont value cannons as the ultimate, the only and true answer to every situation. When I saw your PW video for the first time, I was like "wow". I mean, Ive been killed by them since pretty much day one, but the first person view efficiency was always impressive. And even when I started incorporating cannons more and more into my ATS attack patterns, I realized that they are still secondary for me.

You need to incorporate them more then. People ask me all the time how I manage to get a minimum of 60 kills every game and often times upwards of 100 kills and the answer is simple - cannons. When you go for these extreme kill counts it's vital that you spend as little time reloading as possible because thats wasted time. I know for a fact a good chunk of pilots spend more time flying back to reload and reloading then they do actually attack targets. This ties in with bombing technique for one critical reason and that is that you don't waste your bombs on targets that don't require them. Having a bomb payload available to counter tanks is important to your team and being able to on a single reload destroying two tanks is priceless. Less time at the airfield = more kills.

So although I do use cannons, I never use them as my primary, or the way you do. Because they, without a proper lead work like water pistol. Nevertheless, I do press that trigger button.

Lead on cannons is minimal on most targets. Spend that time you spend perfecting multiple bombing methods on leading cannons and I believe you'll get much more satasfactory results when piloting. Cannons are god.

if I wanted to make it look "professional" "cool" "effective" I would have created cuts from 100% direct hits).

I realize this but you've really made my point for me - if you aren't getting 100% direct hits most of the time you drop that bomb then it's an inferior way to bomb.

The dissipation of splash damage in the bombs is pretty similar to grenades. Remember that topic you made about nades having a great damage in almost the entire radius? Well, its almost the same deal with bombs. When I doubledrop my bombs, they go "almost" after one and another, and they will hit close enough for the tank to be downed.

The fact still remains that you're spending twice the ammo for the same result. Then we go right back to one of my initial points that if you can only manage one tank kill on a bomb load then you're going to be spending a hell of a lot more time reloading or ignoring targets.

Xennore showed in his video that he can bomb moving targets using his method just fine.

Like you said yourself those are cherry picked kills from probably 100s of gigs of fraps footage. Hitting and killing people in a jeep takes no more precision that hitting and destroying infantry on the ground. You can hit from what seems like 50 feet away in any direction and still kill whomever is in the jeep - leaving the occupants dead and the jeep mostly undamaged. Tanks require 2 extremely close bombs to destroy or 1 direct bomb and as a result is a much more difficult target than a fast moving jeep could ever be.

God damn, Chris and PW are going back and forth on this like crazy. You know why this is an awesome method PW? BECAUSE ITS FUN.

That's fine but we're not talking about which is more fun but which is more efficient. That does tie in with fun and enjoyment however because nothing is more enjoyabe for me then being a kick *** pilot for my team and ending the round with an average of 75 klls - a good portion of which are hard targets such as tanks and APCs - you know the kind of targets that if you kill enough of them allow your team to steamroll the enemy and win with ease.

Re: The Aviators Guide

God damn, Chris and PW are going back and forth on this like crazy. You know why this is an awesome method PW? BECAUSE ITS FUN. Its like basketball. Its hilarious when you are already almost back at base and you see like 6 kills pop up because you dropped it at like 700 alt lol.

It also makes the enemy **** their pants everytime they get bombed because they cannot see your plane, they cannot see where you are now, they cannot see when you are coming in, which makes you unpredictable as hell and makes the enemy very insecure about their movements. Its hilarious.

So thats why I use it PW. Because its fun as hell. I did low alt for a while, then switched to this because its more fun. Its like purely dogfighting for a round (with cannons only if you are in the J10 and missles and cannons if you are in the F35) or playing anti tank for a round and taking down armor like mad.

And anyways PW, I found his dogfighing method pretty good, but he wasted the missles before lock when he shouldnt have and I also find the hunt and destroy method ineffective. But im not gonna rag on it, because its a different style of dogfighting, just like high alt bomb drops are another form of bombing.

Re: The Aviators Guide

wow i dun even feel like reading that and lol chris would make a good lawyer

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Aviators Guide

I'm sorry but that's just not how aviation in this game works. Bombs work best for tanks, not anti-air missiles. It's just a fact. Cannons work best on soft stationary targets. It's just an undeniable fact.

I dont really think DICE intended the cannons to be primary weapon. Or else they wouldnt have added bombs that would destroy a tank in one double drop, or an APC in one single drop.

How does that change anything? Cannons can be fired further than bombs can ever be dropped. You can burn down a S2A post before you are even visible to them.

Yes, while putting yourself at risk from crossfire from another STA site, or even worse, from an enemy jet. True, I havent mastered the skill of cannon use against every flag in the game from beyond visual range, that kind of makes my statements in THAT area less valid than yours, however, I still do attack them from BVR, but more often than not, either my angle from which I come from, or the angle of escape, I still wander into STA space. Using high altitude precision drop, against STA, I have no such risk. So in the end, if both methods work, who cares if you use any of those?

I've tested many methods and settled on the one that beats them all in accuracy and efficiency and then focused on it.

Accuracy is something you learn with every method. Be it dive, high-alt, horizontal. You can get the same, high accuracy with EACH method you choose. This is an undeniable fact. Efficiency and kills speed, the method you describe as "yours" is the fastest and most "profitable". BUT, doesnt deny that other methods work.

You can't tell me it's a mistake when I've got one of the best KDR in the game, the best pilot SPM in the game among other statistics. My methods have been proven through various means.

Im not questioning your method because I have it in my book aswell. Youre questioning other methods because you dont have them in your book. Im trying to point you towards an understanding that there is a reason why people bomb with different methods. Usually a viable reason.

Of course you couldn't verify this but you'll just have to take my word that I pretty much never miss a direct hit with my bomb no matter how fast or oddly a vehicle is moving. You can't do that when you're bombing from 400 feet it's just impossible.

I take a dive if the target is moving. If the target is stationary, I drop from high altitude. Just one example of using multiple methods to get the same result.

When one method is far more efficient than all other methods yet you still are stubborn enough to use other less reliable techniques (for a wow factor no less) then yes it does decrease your efficiency.

When we speak about me, then you have yet to realize that all my methods arent dispersed equally in my gameplay. There are the most used ones, and the least used ones, all mastered to a degree in which I can use them all.

No I hope you get my point. If you're dropping bombs on S2A... you're wasting bombs.

Accoording to your opinion. I take STA as a target as any. Bombing, strafing, it makes absolutely no difference to me. What I do care about is the ability to attack any target, at almost any situation I encounter, at a formidable efficiency.

I can't remember the last time S2A shot me down in any plane.

PW, comeon... J10.

It's much more reliable simply to quickly destroy all S2A sites in your general location even if they are unmanned. It takes less than a second worth of cannon rounds and completely eliminates any threat that may come from that area for a good long while. That way you can cruise in comfort and frag ground targets without worrying about becoming a target yourself.

Absolutely. Best defense is attack. But heres the general difference in gamestyle. I simply do not have the time to take care of every STA site I encounter. More often than not, In fact most of my game, Im engaged against aerial targets. ATS is secondary to me, so are the ground targets. This has nothing to do with team efficiency, but rather a simple example of MY OWN personal pleasure from the game. Im a dogfighter, whereas you clear STA sites to have a safe attack area, I cruise around at 300-400 to find enemy jets.

I think you're underestimating the cannons Chris. You point (at any range) you fire and they die. It doesn't get any more simple, accurate or efficient than that. And it certainly doesn't take more time then lining up and dropping a bomb(s) that would much better be spent on a tank or APC.

I know very well what cannons can do. The underestimation, even if there is, comes from the fact that the vast... vast majority of my game has been spent in servers with above 150 ms ping, usually somewhere at 200. Which is where missiles and bombs matter more than cannons. Notice that I have yet to say that bombing STA is the only and true way. Im saying that its perfectly legit way. And just because YOU think its not, doesnt mean it is.

Just for your pleasure. Do you know why people spam grenades in Karkand? Because they kill the fastest. Why waste bullets on a target when you can kill them with one nicely placed grenade. If you master grenade throwing, you can drop anyone at any time, at any angle. Just because DICE didnt design grenades to be primaries, doesnt mean the players wont use them as such... Same for cannons. Cannons were most probably designed by DICE for close distance dogfights, yet they have become an universal answer to ANY threat... Like grenades in Karkand...

Don't contradict yourself...

Sorry, thats one of those "touche" moments. I guess what I want to say is that I dont value cannons as the ultimate, the only and true answer to every situation. When I saw your PW video for the first time, I was like "wow". I mean, Ive been killed by them since pretty much day one, but the first person view efficiency was always impressive. And even when I started incorporating cannons more and more into my ATS attack patterns, I realized that they are still secondary for me.

In dogfights, I played my cards so I could open my targets for missile opportunities.
In ATS, I just practiced my drops.

But I'm glad that you've admitted that you do in fact use the cannon - single bomb method to instantly destroy any vehicle in the game with near 100% success rate. You'd be crazy not to afterall.

My success rate in utilizing this method heavily depends on my ping. Living in Eastern Europe, thats what you get if you play in US server. Disabling "Error Control" was a huge plus, basically shaving off an entire 100 ms off that 250 ms average ping in the servers I played.

I quickly realized that the company in Europe was a far cry from US standards, and playing in low ping servers near me has proven to be an unenjoyable stat padding...

So although I do use cannons, I never use them as my primary, or the way you do. Because they, without a proper lead work like water pistol. Nevertheless, I do press that trigger button.

Point taken but it's still a rare opportunity and really if you've got to bomb at odd angles then you're piloting is at fault and nothing else. With perfect piloting you'll always have enough height speed and time to turn and do a cannon -> single dive drop.

Heres an example. In a dogfight within multiple loops, when I get a target in my HUD, I can release the bombs, witha very high accuracy and continue the dogfight as if I didnt even drop the bombs. It happens rarely, but Im glad I know how to do it.

Find a server with Battlerecorder then. FRAPs hurt no doubt and I've got an average computer it makes it difficult for me too. Consider it an "extra" challenge.

I´ll take the challenge. It wont look pretty though. BR idea is actually pretty good.

Even in your video when you drop both bombs often times I noticed the stationary tank you were aiming at failed to be destroyed.

Thats because in my video I demonstrated multiple attack methods against targets using the HUD. As you saw, every attack came from similar angle, against one and the same target, and it was pretty clear that it was hastily made (video was made using cuts from one single attempt, if I wanted to make it look "professional" "cool" "effective" I would have created cuts from 100% direct hits). Plus, I had NO HUD info, limited view distance, and little time to properly align myself. While I can still do it usually, FRAPS not only lowered my FPS to an almost unplayable limit, it also created regular and irregular lagspikes, which severely limited my perfomance. I am far better than what you saw on the video, I can assure you that.

Fact is in a real game even tanks sitting at flags are rarely stationary for long (most good tank driving never stop moving even when capping a flag). The fact that the tank only has to shift a few feet in any direction for the bomb to become worthless makes it even less useful. I'd much rather risk getting "painted up" once in a blue moon to greatly increase my bombing accuracy and efficiency but that's just me. J-10 is going to spot you either way as metallica will gladly attest to and your best bet is to hope for a lucky kill on the J-10 and camp the rest of the round.. not hiding in the clouds.

The dissipation of splash damage in the bombs is pretty similar to grenades. Remember that topic you made about nades having a great damage in almost the entire radius? Well, its almost the same deal with bombs. When I doubledrop my bombs, they go "almost" after one and another, and they will hit close enough for the tank to be downed.

As for J10, its true, even with playing "hide and seek" youll eventually be spotted. But I cant force myself to shoot down a jet on a runway. Unless I want to make a point of course. And besides, Wake isnt a brandname for me. Kubra Dam is my game.

You misunderstand me. You drop a bomb at a target. Now you've either aimed at a stationary target or compensated for the targets current trajectory. Now during that 3 or 4 seconds it takes the bomb to impact the spot you've aiming all it takes is for the target to slow down/move/change direction/speed up ect. thus the longer your bomb is falling the longer your target has to change his location or trajectroy.

Again, you think that just because Im trying to justify a method of bombing that you do not accept (which is fine by me), you suddenly think that this is teh only viable method. No. Its in my book, sure, but I dont fly around just to bomb the crap out of people and miss moving vehicles from 300-400 feet high. Firstly, I have yet to master this method to even NEARLY as well as Xennore, secondly, Xennore showed in his video that he can bomb moving targets using his method just fine.

Uh isn't that what I just said? Again I've got the highest pilot SPM in the game thus I kill targets faster than anyone. Killing targets fast is a result of making the most out of your payload, spending as little time reloading as possible, finding good targets and aiming accurately. This bombing method discourages those good "kill efficiency" habits.

If you use it 24/7, which is up to Xennore to comment. I use it every once in a while when the opportunity arises.

Flying at 400, looking for a target, and you get a "Enemy armor spotted" at a flag 400 metres away from you, capping a flag. You either dive and cut your sweep for enemy jets, or you lower yoru nose a little, drop 2 and proceed with little to no effect on your focus on ATA. Just one example of a situation where an unpopular method saves time and focus.

Re: The Aviators Guide

As for cannons, great, they work! Even beyond visual range. And Im not saying cannons arent great. I use them all the time! But the variety of skills and use of weaponry is a guaranteed leap forward in efficiency and survival.

I'm sorry but that's just not how aviation in this game works. Bombs work best for tanks, not anti-air missiles. It's just a fact. Cannons work best on soft stationary targets. It's just an undeniable fact.

From my experience, when we get to safety, cannon use has more risks than high-altitude precision dropping. For one, if you use cannons, you may enter a zone covered my multiple AAs.

How does that change anything? Cannons can be fired further than bombs can ever be dropped. You can burn down a S2A post before you are even visible to them.

No. Maybe its your point of view because youve focused on one method.

I've tested many methods and settled on the one that beats them all in accuracy and efficiency and then focused on it.

The most common mistake is one and only style on bombing approach.

You can't tell me it's a mistake when I've got one of the best KDR in the game, the best pilot SPM in the game among other statistics. My methods have been proven through various means. Of course you couldn't verify this but you'll just have to take my word that I pretty much never miss a direct hit with my bomb no matter how fast or oddly a vehicle is moving. You can't do that when you're bombing from 400 feet it's just impossible.

And multiple mastered bombing methods does increase efficiency.

When one method is far more efficient than all other methods yet you still are stubborn enough to use other less reliable techniques (for a wow factor no less) then yes it does decrease your efficiency.

You can also get a sniper to keep an eye on STAs. You can also... yadda yadda yadda. I hope you get my point.

No I hope you get my point. If you're dropping bombs on S2A... you're wasting bombs.

Youre right, "relative safety" would be a better word. Its better for the F35B to stick UP, rather than DOWN. Whatever one can do, he should do to increase the chances of survival.

I can't remember the last time S2A shot me down in any plane. It's much more reliable simply to quickly destroy all S2A sites in your general location even if they are unmanned. It takes less than a second worth of cannon rounds and completely eliminates any threat that may come from that area for a good long while. That way you can cruise in comfort and frag ground targets without worrying about becoming a target yourself.

As for bolded comment. I have a 80-90% hit capability on stationary targets when I do want to drop bombs from safe altitude. I align my flight pattern for far LESS time than I do for a cannon run. I dont even enter AA range. Truly an "attack from out of nowhere". This is far more sattisfying and safe, than a cannon run.

I think you're underestimating the cannons Chris. You point (at any range) you fire and they die. It doesn't get any more simple, accurate or efficient than that. And it certainly doesn't take more time then lining up and dropping a bomb(s) that would much better be spent on a tank or APC.

Yup, which is my point exactly. While a traditional bombing method is still my nr #1 choice (cannon run and release at 20-30 degrees, in single drop mode),

Don't contradict yourself...

I for example dont soften my targets, yet I kill them nonetheless.

But I'm glad that you've admitted that you do in fact use the cannon - single bomb method to instantly destroy any vehicle in the game with near 100% success rate. You'd be crazy not to afterall.

sometimes an opportunity arises in the least expected timeframe, and to save time and "tickets" or yourself, a drop from an odd angle or with an odd method is great, if you have NO trouble pulling it off. Needless to say Ive taken down AAs, tanks and APCs in a middle of a dogfight, with just a fraction of a secod of aligning. The more versatile you are, the better it is for you.

Point taken but it's still a rare opportunity and really if you've got to bomb at odd angles then you're piloting is at fault and nothing else. With perfect piloting you'll always have enough height speed and time to turn and do a cannon -> single dive drop.

As for me making a video. The bombing video I made, youve seen it right? I had to make it in a game with NO player (not even AI), with minimum settings and a 80% view distance, and I averaged 18 FPS.

Find a server with Battlerecorder then. FRAPs hurt no doubt and I've got an average computer it makes it difficult for me too. Consider it an "extra" challenge.

Theres more to an attack than dropping a bomb. Unless I know I will hit a vehicle, I will not waste my bombs. This goes under "situational awareness". When a tank is attacking a flag, they are mostly stationary. Perfect target. no matter what altitude, just aslong as the bombs hit. If Im in F35B, Im almost always above 200-300 feet, why not take a drop from THAT altitude just to save time, rather than diving down and be painted with AA? Spotted for J10s? And whatever else?

Even in your video when you drop both bombs often times I noticed the stationary tank you were aiming at failed to be destroyed. Fact is in a real game even tanks sitting at flags are rarely stationary for long (most good tank driving never stop moving even when capping a flag). The fact that the tank only has to shift a few feet in any direction for the bomb to become worthless makes it even less useful. I'd much rather risk getting "painted up" once in a blue moon to greatly increase my bombing accuracy and efficiency but that's just me. J-10 is going to spot you either way as metallica will gladly attest to and your best bet is to hope for a lucky kill on the J-10 and camp the rest of the round.. not hiding in the clouds.

No. Luckily DICE didnt create windage nor do bombs drift because they rotate. If you have a correct aprpoach, and you drop at correct moment (HUD target area), you got a bullzeye hit. Theres no argument there. Thats of course from the pilots part. If a target moves, tough luck. But the bombs themselves do not devate, and they fall in a 100% predictable manner, which is why these (to you) akward methods work just as well as traditional and simple methods.

You misunderstand me. You drop a bomb at a target. Now you've either aimed at a stationary target or compensated for the targets current trajectory. Now during that 3 or 4 seconds it takes the bomb to impact the spot you've aiming all it takes is for the target to slow down/move/change direction/speed up ect. thus the longer your bomb is falling the longer your target has to change his location or trajectroy.

Actually, the faster you kill your targets = the better pilots you are. Which is the the ONLY ONE, the truest, the best and most important, the only viable concept*.

Uh isn't that what I just said? Again I've got the highest pilot SPM in the game thus I kill targets faster than anyone. Killing targets fast is a result of making the most out of your payload, spending as little time reloading as possible, finding good targets and aiming accurately. This bombing method discourages those good "kill efficiency" habits.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Aviators Guide

See that's what I don't get. You can outrange S2A with cannons by a huge distance. The cannons are faster than bombs and more accurate and you end up saving your bombs for the targets that actually do require bombs (large groups of infantry and armor vehicles).

You seem to be stuck on the word "only" and "one". Xennores video was a presentation of high altitude bombing and "free chase cam" mode utilization in a dogfight. This wasnt a "how to play in a jet for one round" tutorial, such as the one you made. You practiced multiple methods in attacking vehicles and flags, great, but the aim of YOUR video was simply to show how an experienced pilot works in a game. Xennores video was a presentation of a few methods. To judge his whole play-style just by that video is a little ignorant.

As for cannons, great, they work! Even beyond visual range. And Im not saying cannons arent great. I use them all the time! But the variety of skills and use of weaponry is a guaranteed leap forward in efficiency and survival.

From my experience, when we get to safety, cannon use has more risks than high-altitude precision dropping. For one, if you use cannons, you may enter a zone covered my multiple AAs. You also line yourself up for a little longer against a pilot behind you. Now, I know youll say that you look behind you, I do too. But I personally have figured out some angles from which you cannot see me. Again, I dont think cannons are the worst method of attacking an AA nest. I wouldnt want to rank methods in their efficiency because a good pilot can make any method efficient. If we would want to rank, Id rank methods in simplicity. Yes, cannon use is more simple.

Practicing multiple types of bombing just leaves you jack of all master of none.

No. Maybe its your point of view because youve focused on one method.

If you stick with a rigid form and technique and use it over and over again you'll end up developing a godlike accuracy with that technique.

This is a common mistake I notice when I dogfight. Every pilot has a set of moves, and eventually (it takes me 1-3 chases) youll figure it out and create a countertactic. The most common mistake is one and only style on bombing approach. Yours is far more popular than you think. Theres also an angle of attack for which most pilots attempting this bombing method are open, and almost everyone uses their own ironed out escape method. Bottomline. The more traditional you are, the easier target you make. Ive been complimented for having an extraordinary flight "pattern" in escaping which really isnt a pattern, but is chaotic enough to drop most pilots off. This all comes down to variety. And variety is unpredictability, which in turn is survival.

And multiple mastered bombing methods does increase efficiency.

Normally I'd never recommend such a rigid style of gameplay but luckily with airplane bombing techniques you only need one.

Yes, you do "need" only one. Youre totally right here. But I "want" more than one. Not because Im a stupid kid at a candy-store, but because the more variety I have, the better I am.

Again 200-300... hell even 500 feet away or more you can fire in to a stationary S2A site before the box has even appeared and destroy it with ease. I can't remember the last time I used a bomb on a S2A site.

You can also get a sniper to keep an eye on STAs. You can also... yadda yadda yadda. I hope you get my point.

No such thing as safety for an F-35B. If you're going up against a J-10 you're guaranteed dead as I'll prove over and over again and if you let S2A down your F-35B you are an uber-noob. Dropping bombs from 300 feet does not change this fact. Cannons travel faster than bombs and are much more accurate and like it or not are the best way to roast S2A posts. From a single point on most maps I can pretty much waste every single S2A site long before the box appears. As long as it's not past the fog in BF2 it's dead meat.

Youre right, "relative safety" would be a better word. Its better for the F35B to stick UP, rather than DOWN. Whatever one can do, he should do to increase the chances of survival.

As for bolded comment. I have a 80-90% hit capability on stationary targets when I do want to drop bombs from safe altitude. I align my flight pattern for far LESS time than I do for a cannon run. I dont even enter AA range. Truly an "attack from out of nowhere". This is far more sattisfying and safe, than a cannon run.

You got me there Chris.. I'll do crazy stuff when precision isn't neccessary and the clock is ticking. If memory serves me I dropped a bomb on infantry on the flag and if I had the necessary angle for a regular (much more accurate) drop I would've taken it but fact is you don't have much time with a flag cap and plus the addition of that crane over CS you've got to use an odd angle every now and again.

Yup, which is my point exactly. While a traditional bombing method is still my nr #1 choice (cannon run and release at 20-30 degrees, in single drop mode), sometimes an opportunity arises in the least expected timeframe, and to save time and "tickets" or yourself, a drop from an odd angle or with an odd method is great, if you have NO trouble pulling it off. Needless to say Ive taken down AAs, tanks and APCs in a middle of a dogfight, with just a fraction of a secod of aligning. The more versatile you are, the better it is for you.

Haha ok Chris show me an unedited video of you bombing and hitting many undamaged moving tanks/APCs (even jeeps) from these altitudes and destroying them with a single bomb over the course of a full round and I'll admit defeat.

Whats the bid?

This is not about "one single only true" method as you so desperately want to make it out to be. In this argument in particular. This is about multiple methods in taking out any vehicle/target at any time.

As for me making a video. The bombing video I made, youve seen it right? I had to make it in a game with NO player (not even AI), with minimum settings and a 80% view distance, and I averaged 18 FPS.

The only way you'll hit tanks from those altitudes is if your name is Nostradomos. Because once you drop that bomb it's out of your control and thus if that tank decides to make a hard right or stop you're screwed.

Theres more to an attack than dropping a bomb. Unless I know I will hit a vehicle, I will not waste my bombs. This goes under "situational awareness". When a tank is attacking a flag, they are mostly stationary. Perfect target. no matter what altitude, just aslong as the bombs hit. If Im in F35B, Im almost always above 200-300 feet, why not take a drop from THAT altitude just to save time, rather than diving down and be painted with AA? Spotted for J10s? And whatever else?

The longer the time that the bomb spends in the air the less efficient and less accurate it will be.

No. Luckily DICE didnt create windage nor do bombs drift because they rotate. If you have a correct aprpoach, and you drop at correct moment (HUD target area), you got a bullzeye hit. Theres no argument there. Thats of course from the pilots part. If a target moves, tough luck. But the bombs themselves do not devate, and they fall in a 100% predictable manner, which is why these (to you) akward methods work just as well as traditional and simple methods.

Dropping low and hard with my modified form of "dive bombing" leaves less than half a second between the drop of the bomb and impact with the target.. AKA one dead tank guaranteed.

Let me make it clear to you. You do not have a "Modified" divebombing method. Every pilot who has skill enough to attack with at least some efficieny uses the same method. The difference is that they mostly do not use cannons. But the drop is at the same angle, same timing and certainly... same HUD positioning.

I could care less about piloting ego now as I rarely pilot nowadays regardless. Believe it or not I want inexperienced pilots to do well and I don't think they can do well if they start wasting bombs by dropping them on weak S2A posts from 400 feet up. In addition attempting to vehicles from 400 feet up isn't going to produce favorable results. My method battle tested, is the most effective, just about as safe and produces much more accuracy and thus is a much more effective use of the bombs payload. When I'm on the ground I want my pilots to destroy those two tanks ASAP and I don't want to watch them waste a payload by doing a high altitude drop and doing nothing but scorching the ground.

If you want new pilots to do well, then just leave it. This is about your pilot ego, you just dont see it. A good pilot knows more than one way of attacking their opponent. A newbie pilot, in order to be efficient, sooner or later discovers the most used bombing method, which is a semi-dive, with release on Nr2 position on my pic. Its that simple. This argument isnt about utilizing one and the same attack in every situation, even though you want it to be. This has become into an argument where the main theme is your intolerance towards bombing methods that you do not practice. So please... stop.

Did DICE recently create some ultra tank I'm not aware of? A single bomb plus a spattering of cannon kills every single vehicle in the game with room to spare. The advantage of not using both bombs on a tank is if you miss or fail to kill the target you get a second shot but for myself almost never missing a direct hit I have the second bomb free to drop on a flag or another armored vehicle should the opportunity arise. Less reload + more killing with the same payload = more effective pilot. Pretty simple concept really.

Actually, the faster you kill your targets = the better pilots you are. Which is the the ONLY ONE, the truest, the best and most important, the only viable concept*.





*see?

Re: The Aviators Guide

For one, there are MULTIPLE types of bombing. I use Xennores method, "your" (the standard and VERY average method) method, horizontal drop and pure divebombing, all depending on whats going on. For example, if I attack a flag which is covered by multiple AAs, I gladly drop a bomb from 200 ft onto the nest of an AA.

See that's what I don't get. You can outrange S2A with cannons by a huge distance. The cannons are faster than bombs and more accurate and you end up saving your bombs for the targets that actually do require bombs (large groups of infantry and armor vehicles). Practicing multiple types of bombing just leaves you jack of all master of none. If you stick with a rigid form and technique and use it over and over again you'll end up developing a godlike accuracy with that technique. Normally I'd never recommend such a rigid style of gameplay but luckily with airplane bombing techniques you only need one.

My video doesnt even show how I play in pubs, and I do bomb stationary targets from 200-300 feet height with PINPOINT precision.

Again 200-300... hell even 500 feet away or more you can fire in to a stationary S2A site before the box has even appeared and destroy it with ease. I can't remember the last time I used a bomb on a S2A site.

Xennores moves advantage is extreme, encouraged method for ALL JFS pilots. Because it allows people to drop bombs from safety.

No such thing as safety for an F-35B. If you're going up against a J-10 you're guaranteed dead as I'll prove over and over again and if you let S2A down your F-35B you are an uber-noob. Dropping bombs from 300 feet does not change this fact. Cannons travel faster than bombs and are much more accurate and like it or not are the best way to roast S2A posts. From a single point on most maps I can pretty much waste every single S2A site long before the box appears. As long as it's not past the fog in BF2 it's dead meat.

Bull. The "standard" method is what YOU are using. Which is the simpliest and most basic method. You might not remember, but upon watching your video just recently, the one you made nearly a year ago, you bombed Con. Site using the same angle and HUD release as Xennore did.

You got me there Chris.. I'll do crazy stuff when precision isn't neccessary and the clock is ticking. If memory serves me I dropped a bomb on infantry on the flag and if I had the necessary angle for a regular (much more accurate) drop I would've taken it but fact is you don't have much time with a flag cap and plus the addition of that crane over CS you've got to use an odd angle every now and again.

Your method opens you for an attack. Xennores method leaves him out of reach of AA. Your attack is great for any and all types of targets (STILL; leaving you open for an attack), Xennores method is for precision-drop at stationary targets at safe altitude.

Again the only thing that is truely stationary enough for these high-altitude bombs to hit is S2A. Vehicles will almost always move around enough to make the time to release on the drop far too long. Of course I shouldn't have to mention again that S2A is not an armored target and can be outranged easily by cannons.

However, once mastered, theres proper lead, and proper hit in moving targets.

Haha ok Chris show me an unedited video of you bombing and hitting many undamaged moving tanks/APCs (even jeeps) from these altitudes and destroying them with a single bomb over the course of a full round and I'll admit defeat. The only way you'll hit tanks from those altitudes is if your name is Nostradomos. Because once you drop that bomb it's out of your control and thus if that tank decides to make a hard right or stop you're screwed. The longer the time that the bomb spends in the air the less efficient and less accurate it will be. Dropping low and hard with my modified form of "dive bombing" leaves less than half a second between the drop of the bomb and impact with the target.. AKA one dead tank guaranteed.

I think you closed the case yourself once you started pissing on a guy with great skills just because youre jealous of the publicity.

I could care less about piloting ego now as I rarely pilot nowadays regardless. Believe it or not I want inexperienced pilots to do well and I don't think they can do well if they start wasting bombs by dropping them on weak S2A posts from 400 feet up. In addition attempting to vehicles from 400 feet up isn't going to produce favorable results. My method battle tested, is the most effective, just about as safe and produces much more accuracy and thus is a much more effective use of the bombs payload. When I'm on the ground I want my pilots to destroy those two tanks ASAP and I don't want to watch them waste a payload by doing a high altitude drop and doing nothing but scorching the ground.

If Xennores method is applied correctly, the bombs drop after one and other with minimum spread. Which in simple terms means- 2 bombs drop at one spot. In order to do this, you just have to point the nose down on second release. Its that simple. I use it all the time, even in casual attacks.

Did DICE recently create some ultra tank I'm not aware of? A single bomb plus a spattering of cannon kills every single vehicle in the game with room to spare. The advantage of not using both bombs on a tank is if you miss or fail to kill the target you get a second shot but for myself almost never missing a direct hit I have the second bomb free to drop on a flag or another armored vehicle should the opportunity arise. Less reload + more killing with the same payload = more effective pilot. Pretty simple concept really.