J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

[Revoluti0n]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

:|:

so i assume the beta tests were pointless.

The beta tests apparently were for optimization NOT for mechanical and game play changes.

[colony]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

You see, thats just it. There are MANY solutions to this problem. I dont give a rats *** which one they use, all I want is a solution.

They can give the F35 shorter flare recharge time, increase the time it takes to lock on to the F35, or give it the ground stinger missiles instead of the AIM 9s to make its missiles more lethal, while not affecting any other jet etc etc

Or

They can fix the hitbox



Why is it that huge? Were they high when they made it?You see in between those back flaps, why is that a hitbox area? Unlike the F18 and F15...



I can dodge missiles with the F18, J10, Mig, F15, Su30, Eurofighter reliably with the proper maneuvers.

Yet no matter what you do with the F35, it cannot dodge 1 missile. Its obvious that it is the hitbox mesh. How f****** hard can it be to make a new hitbox for 1 jet.

They made 3 new jets for Armored fury, yet they cant make/change 1 jet hitbox for this new patch that STILL isnt out yet which is supposed to be the "mother of all patches" as DICE Canada has said (yea, what a load of s**t)

Now take a look at this picture courtesy of [DUCKS]Black_Duck_1....



If they want to change the maneuverability of the J10, they have to first look at its mass. 18000Kg? Look at all the other jets. 5000 or 7000. Were they on drugs? A fully loaded F15E and Su34 is obviously much heavier, yet the little J10 fighter is nearly 3 times their weight?

Yea, I think we can all agree they were/are high....

DICE tells us they want to fix all the stability and balance issues, instead they decide to make a crappy worthless new game mode Infantry Only instead of fixing bugs and gameplay issues in the core game.

The DICE Canada division is a sorry team. They cant code for crap, a 10 year old could do better.

I hope to god Canada doesnt lay 1 goddamn finger on 2142.

Please dont touch 2142 DICE Canada, DONT RUIN DICE SWEDEN'S WORK AGAIN!!!

:|:
The beta tests apparently were for optimization NOT for mechanical and game play changes.

No gameplay changes? How about a whole new game mode and map? Have you forgotten about that?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

You see, thats just it. There are MANY solutions to this problem. I dont give a rats *** which one they use, all I want is a solution.

Again, youve presented just a few general ideas on the issue that you now want DICE to work and experiment with. Youre proposing still ideas that are "what ifs". Youre leaving it up to DICE to work out and hell, you dont even know if they will work.

They can give the F35 shorter flare recharge time, increase the time it takes to lock on to the F35, or give it the ground stinger missiles instead of the AIM 9s to make its missiles more lethal, while not affecting any other jet etc etc

etc etc... Take your time, think it through and post suggestions with positive ad negative effects. Analyze it through. Dont just throw ideas around if you want DICE to take you seriously. Im not telling you your ideas suck, they dont. But you have to present them in a manner that they understand both the change and the consequences. Its like a chemical reaction, if you know the prognosis, you perform the reaction with soem security. Otherwise youll try infinite single scenarios which may not even help.

Or

They can fix the hitbox



Why is it that huge? Were they high when they made it?You see in between those back flaps, why is that a hitbox area? Unlike the F18 and F15...

These hitboxes were created for 1.0/Demo. If you want to have a look at what a hitbox mesh should look like, check the EuroFighter. These, now are obselete models. With F18 and J10 being obvious anomalies. I believe that its a combination of TURN SPEED and the lower part of the hitbox mesh. Then again, missiles miss in level flight aswell so obviously its a problem where the missile doesnt register a hit. This can be a network problem aswell. For all we know, DICE may not have only changed missile characteristics, but also something other, which didnt have anything to do with jets in the first place.

I can dodge missiles with the F18, J10, Mig, F15, Su30, Eurofighter reliably with the proper maneuvers.

Dont just check the rear view if the hitox, have a look from the side perspective. F35B gets hit DEAD ON, with full impact from the missile. While other jets have certain small anomalies.

Yet no matter what you do with the F35, it cannot dodge 1 missile. Its obvious that it is the hitbox mesh. How f****** hard can it be to make a new hitbox for 1 jet.

Its a combination of issues. The hotbox mesh on F35B is like a wall. You cant dodge a wall. Youll hit it. Check the other ones, they have a smaller profile, with some having hitbox like a spearhead, where maybe missiles just wont find a spot to hit? And certain planes have their hitbox covered by the model? Again, Im not an expert, and from the looks of things, you arent either (no disrespect).

They made 3 new jets for Armored fury, yet they cant make/change 1 jet hitbox for this new patch that STILL isnt out yet which is supposed to be the "mother of all patches" as DICE Canada has said (yea, what a load of s**t)

CKMC]I also received a crash course (har har) on hit box construction which helped me realize that this also would not be a simple adjustment and would also require weeks of adjustment and trial-and-error.

So, you have to analyze what causes the anomaly in the hotbox mesh, which is sh!tload of work. And they have limited manpower.

Now take a look at this picture courtesy of [DUCKS]Black_Duck_1....

This is how it works. BF2 has physics in it. Jets maneuverabilty and information that dictates their flight is not a simple system.

For example there is no-

"maximum sped = 1599 KPH"

Maximum speed is dictated by various details such as mass, drag, engine torgue and maybe some more.

Mass itsself mostly dictates the ACCELERATION and speed loss in turns. Its simple physics. If you have enough common sense, you can actually experiment with the files. I managed to create F35B that outplays J10 in every aspect, didnt check missile magnetism though.

So the mass 5000 is actually what gives the F35B super-acceleration (and deceleration), yet creates huge speed loss in turns. Pro/Con. Balance.

If they want to change the maneuverability of the J10, they have to first look at its mass. 18000Kg? Look at all the other jets. 5000 or 7000. Were they on drugs? A fully loaded F15E and Su34 is obviously much heavier, yet the little J10 fighter is nearly 3 times their weight?

Check above.

I think the mass is what gives the J10 also the lag in control response. Mass only gives J10 means to keep high speed and gives it no speed loss. Inertia, again simple physics. Yet it also creates control lag. Or reduces it.

Yea, I think we can all agree they were/are high....

I think youre talking about something you have to do some reserch it. Its not about "who has the biggest number", its what these numbers actually DO!

DICE tells us they want to fix all the stability and balance issues, instead they decide to make a crappy worthless new game mode Infantry Only instead of fixing bugs and gameplay issues in the core game.

Indeed. I fvcking hate this aswell...

The DICE Canada division is a sorry team. They cant code for crap, a 10 year old could do better.

DICE Canada shouldnt be doing this in the first place...

I hope to god Canada doesnt lay 1 goddamn finger on 2142.




No gameplay changes? How about a whole new game mode and map? Have you forgotten about that?[/quote]

[Willee]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

They made 3 new jets for Armored fury, yet they cant make/change 1 jet hitbox for this new patch that STILL isnt out yet which is supposed to be the "mother of all patches" as DICE Canada has said (yea, what a load of s**t)

Because, unlike AF, we aren't paying for it. So, they just do a half-assed job and don't give a **** if they don't fix things.

[colony]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

I'm no expert programmer, but its obvious by looking at that chart, looking at those hitboxes......really, how hard is it?

How can you change the J10 to make it even better, as Colin said? You would have to be retarded to make a mistake like that.

Those values are obvious.

The mass is as you said, more mass makes it easier to keep speed in turns. Cut J10 mass to about 10000. Test it

The "problem" with the J10 vs F35 is pitch rate. Lower the pitch rate, and alot of problems are solved:


The max degrees and/or acceleration and/or rotational speed on the elevators of the J10 should be lowered, which would help lower its pitch. Test it

The rudders and engines most likely shouldnt even have to be touched, which makes Colin's remark of changing the engines and torque etc very illogical.

They are looking too hard, when the fix is really simple. Who knows, simply lowering the mass of the J10 alone might bring its maneuverability in line with the other jets.

Basically the end result should be a jet somewhere in line with the Mig maneuverability, and the hitbox on the F35 should be lessened into a mirror image of the F15.

Both the J10 and F35 are then able to dodge missiles with the right maneuvers, J10 still has a slight edge in pitch rate and F35 still has slight edge in roll and afterburner sprint/speed

Problem solved

[Venomous]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

wow you gotta be kidding me after all the crap we put up with and now with the over balance AND NOW THEY ARENT GOING TO DO A GOD DAMN THING ABOUT IT WHAT A GREAT FLIPPEN IDEA

[Komet.nl]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

If they don't change the J-10s in BF2, I am never playing Wake Again!

I'm joining the club Wake is my most fav. played map I played it exactly 650 times.. So I'f they don't fix it I'm going to Karkand whore :|:

[Graphic]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

Can someone link back to the actual post.

[Dangerdog]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1125037#post1125037

[N2K]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

They should make em the same, since the J10 is fast it would the same trying to lock on but a J10 flying striaght should go down in flames on the first two missles.

[pYura]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

LOL, why don they let outsiders test the game and make the game balanced... we need just a little support from them :|:

[sidtherat]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

they did the same with lotr: battle for middle earth 1. there j10 was called GANDALF and was a real hot MOFO. everybody knew, that gondor was overpowered, and i mean OVER f.. powered. but you know what? LOTR II was comming.. sooo.. gandalf never got fixed realy, and people mass migrated to lotr II, because they didnt want to play borring 2v2 gondor turtle matches..

in lotr II j10 has a name of dwarwen rush.. and it is still waiting to be fixed, however, i dont see lotr III comming [except for a sh.. expansion for lotr II], so maybe they are just plain stupid?

[N2K]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

huh???

[sidtherat]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

long story short - theyll not fix j10 on purpose, so more and more of you will have to migrate to 2142 to enjoy unbalance-free game

they forgot however that 2142 has no planes..

[Eternal-Souljah]

Re: J-10 will NOT be changed in 1.4

No tuning needs to be done, thats fine. Everyone knows fine well here that if something gets nerfed its rendered near useless, like the BH guns. Now to try the more valueable solution of improving the F35 hitbox/missile wise, anything but nerfing things.

Yeah seriously, hurry up with the damn patch im getting sick of these crashes nearly every time I play its like when I do actually get to play without any bugs or crashes then its like I have to cherish the moment as its if im getting the privilege to play without crashes.

Fix the bugs, fix the crashes, fix the exploits, then optimize or whatever the other things like weapons and vehicles. What is so hard about releasing a hotfix to fix the bugs and crashes? you found the source well over a month ago and fixed it then what the hell is the wait? You know im not going to critize you DICE but seriously take one hard look at who is creating the patches, letting a crash as noticeable as that get through is pretty incompetent. When you test something, test it inside out.

Why test it inside out? because BattlField 2 is no doubt one of the most popular games ever, been in the news even for infamous reasons and famous reasons, millions of players world wide. The fact is that its graphics, gameplay and span of gameplay is what make it such a great game, im just going to give you a few bullet points of Hints to make a success last and make your company a success in the longrun:

. Test your patches to the full extent
. Do not listen to alot of the whiners take mass community polls
. Fix the crashes (vital as people are getting angered)
. Provide a free map maybe once a month

Its in your best intrest, think about it, you gave the community Jalalabad as a free map, no doubt for compensation over the failure of a patch 1.3.
Now im being 100% serious, the community is what makes BF2 live, you want to make sure that life is extended for as long as possible. So create a new map here and there, or take votes on which map that a modder create is the best and sign it up available to download and be used in Ranked (once you tested it over of course and verify its legit).

You get what im saying, your giving the X360 a free expansion, I've paid for the expansion pack and 2 boosters, no I don't really mind since BF2 is such a great game it has serious potential, don't ruin it. But its in your intrest to keep the community as positive as possible, you already have alot of people not going to buy 2142. Even when 2142 you should still support BF2.

DICE its in your best intrest to read this.

They just dont have that experience in jets/choppers to adequately know what to do. This is exactly the time where the community should help, not moan and whine. As far as I know, from my personal experience, missile/jet tweaks to reach the optimal balance IS possible.

So what your asking is that the community help them code etc, noone would do that though without getting a nice paycheck. Really if DICE has such coders as that employ some competent workers who know what to do.