Pilots get abused so badly

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

I had a nice long reply to this, which unfortunately seems to be deleted. But Ill summarise it-

*edit* Don't bother, I am just having a hard time keeping up with editing this thread to prevent more flames - Talus

I guess you never played Mashtuur city then...no jets.

I was actually one of the BHAWK crew members in Mashtuur, mostly.

I also remember that using .50 cal solution against BHAWKs wasnt that much of a bad idea. Setting up ERYX ambushes was also a fun thing to do. But my most favourite time was in an especially anti-BHAWK oriented squad.

Like I said, its hard to beat a 6 man group solo, but hell, imagine going against a squad alone on land. I dont think much of anyone would survive.

"me me me", lets all run around with medkits.

[Talus]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

I was actually one of the BHAWK crew members in Mashtuur, mostly.

I think you just made everybody's point for them.

Thank you.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

I think you just made everybody's point for them.

Thank you.

Worked with and against the problem child. If you search through my posts on the forums, youll find that I have nothing against taking down firepower of the miniguns, if its being done to make BHAWKs to fulfill the rule of transport helicopters, and tone down on their gunship role. However, that requires a transport vehicle to have sufficient protection/armor to not to be just a mass-coffin.

[Talus]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

I didn't imply that you were against the BH mini-gun nerf.

I implied that not only did shallow players enjoy the BH point-fest...but ANYONE with a pulse and an index finger. Maybe even moreso players who are used to high scores (self-professed 'pilots' on non-jet maps).

I'd love to see more armor for the transport choppers.

[imported_Underpant]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

To reply to the first post: Just stop caring. I really don't mind running people over as long as I know I don't have enough punishes yet, because I know once I get in the air, there is an overwhelming chance I will not die in the jet and be fine. Also despite the -4 or so points that's just 2 kills, and 2 kills in a jet is nothing. I have 1180 TKs, very few of which were intentional, and none of which were TKs to get the jet or chopper.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

I didn't imply that you were against the BH mini-gun nerf.

I implied that not only did shallow players enjoy the BH point-fest...but ANYONE with a pulse and an index finger. Maybe even moreso players who are used to high scores (self-professed 'pilots' on non-jet maps).

I'd love to see more armor for the transport choppers.

Meh, I love flying BHAWKS. As a BHAWK pilot I felt I had a purpose. Screw the points. I noticed I started playing for the points from the moment I fired up the game in the first day and joined a rank server. Thats pretty much where it stopped aswell. If you were a part of a well oiled BHAWK team, and you werent a pointwhoring score-maniac, youd feel like you actually had a purpose in the game. Flying for a flag, taking it down quickly, jumping to another, and actually DOING something that mattered, thats what I liked about it. And as a pilot, it was my duty to do it as well as I could. High score wasnt bad, but I could have just played Wake or Dalian 24/7 in a J10, or toss medkits in Karkand.

Apart from taking flags, theres really no other obvious objectives in BF2, and having an awesome regular squad to work with was insanely rare, unless you were a regular in a good server, and even then, I was from Europe, my favourite servers are US, and the better people came online when I was having a beauty sleep.

What Im trying to say is, sometimes you guys generalize flyboys just too much, describing them and making them look like what they really arent. Hell, I have NEVER received "Thank You" for not one single time for saving flags, squads with a successful drop. Doesnt make me go out and say that infantry players are stupid ungrateful bunnyhopping pricks. :laugh:

[Talus]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

..but in a way you just did

[Miniman]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

yeah, tkes on runways shouldnt count.

jets are aweosme in bf2, but on a 64, you have to be very lucky to get e jet, sacrafice 4 points at least for one, and then get taken out the second you take off by someone who lives in a jet, and has a KD of xxx/-x

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

..but in a way you just did

:P, didnt mean to say that, in anyway though.

[John Edmo]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

Yes the jets are great to fly but if there isn't one available then I'll go do something else, not sulk in the corner and waste time like some punishing moron last night did. Why they stand in the way of a jet taking off is beyond me. Then to punish you for their own stupidity, well!!:nerr: :nerr: :nerr: :dead:

[disfigured]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

I think we're just missing each other's point slightly. Let me clarify. Maybe my posts have been some what ambiguous.

I'm not suprised, the weapons that take the least ammount of time to gain the most advantage useally attract the shallowest of players.

I think Grena hit to what I think I was trying to express, by highlighting my qoute.

I'm not suggesting it takes less time , but the least in relationship to battle feild advantage. It might even take more time in a vehicle to vehicle comparison. The point is the advantages gained for the time spent is far more for jets then any other vehicle.

It's the invunerabilty to all but another pilot that makes this so. While the best tanker may have distinct advantages over another tanker, he can be taken out by two reletively inexpereinced AT players.

With no other pilots even the newest of pilots can roam free with the "least" ammount of vunerability. That can't be said for any other weapons platform in BF2. The assumption can't be that there's another pilot, because sometimes there isn't one. When a tank begins to cause havoc, it's not a "get a tank" and kill em situation. Which is what some pilots use as a defense for what I believe is the biggest drawback of the BF series. Which is the "Rock, Paper, Scissors" balancing. Jets don't follow this very ingenious programming balance. In the hands of the best pilots (and even unchallenged new ones) jets become a ROCK, with no paper.

Is it as easy as getting into a jet and hitting the foward key? Of course not. But the least considerate, and most selfish players who want to the "ROCK" with no paper, know the path to this starts at the airfeilds.

Personally I don't comment in game about it. I don't start posts about nerfing this or that. When some one does start a post I will put in my $00.2 worth. Possible a little to harshly as I believe this oversight on the part of EA/DICE is a major sticking point for me in the series, and only seems to be getting worse.

[UnknownSoldier]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

I agree somewhat on the "shallow" part. But you would be stupid and inexperienced to believe that flight in "easy" in BF2.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Jets do attract "shallow" people--most of whom are ignorant and think things like this:

...It doesn't take genius to figure out there's a distinct advantage to flying over not flying when it comes to survivability. Even for the least experienced of pilots this holds true...

Have you ever even seen the inside of a cockpit? Survivability is good for an ace pilot, but even they crash periodically. The "least experienced of pilots" crash more than they kill. They also accidentally TK with their bombs a lot of the time, too (something for which ignorant groundwhores always punish).Try it out for yourself before you start talking ****. Oh and BTW, you're supposed to get better K/D ratios in an aircraft because you don't get any team points when you fly one. Your entire raison d'etre is to kill enemies so your teammates on the ground have an easier time racking up large amounts of points from flag captures.

Chris_Redfield's words are so true that they deserve reiteration:

...Thats where they go, take a jet, bomb the uncappable, crash somewhere and spawn back on the carrier, TK for a jet and go for another "easy" ride. They jump in that jet, fight for it because they believe its easy. Its simple. Its effortless. Yet they have absolutely no impact on the team, and they crash whenever they hear a missile lock warning...

Airfield/carrier TKing doesn't happen that often in my experience (at least not since 1.2 was released), it's usually just the stand-in-front forced TK on take-off that happens. BTW, TKing for ground vehicles is rare, but it does happen.

A note for Euro-Fighter: Try taking off vertically to avoid those forced TKs. Also note that you don't need to tip the plane up to do a horizontal take-off from the F-35 that spawns at the edge of the carrier. If the jerk isn't standing directly in front of the front wheel then just keep the nose level until you roll off the edge, and then pull up with a bit of afterburner. Last step--switch to rear view so you can see the little bastard jump around on the deck in frustration.

[Galdigor]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

I guess you never played Mashtuur city then...no jets.

its my fav. map , with the black-hawk --> black-hawk+Nice Squad = Teamplay

[motorboatJones]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

Sometimes it sounds so foreign to my BF2 expereince thus far, I feel it must be exaggerated. Is Tk'ing for aircraft really this common?

It's not just the teamkilling. It's the lames that force teamkills on you. They stand in front of, on, in and around your jet/chopper forcing you to teamkill when you take off, then they punish you for it. You can't play on servers that have the punish option turned off because EA stopped that. Thanks EA for requiring ranked servers to have the punish option on giving the lames more incentive to act badly.

Incidentally, there's nothing sweeter than talking out an enemy jet with an AT rocket. Especially a second after they've hopped in in full expectation of blanket bombing noob pwnage.

See this http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77423

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Pilots get abused so badly

I think we're just missing each other's point slightly. Let me clarify. Maybe my posts have been some what ambiguous.



I think Grena hit to what I think I was trying to express, by highlighting my qoute.

I'm not suggesting it takes less time , but the least in relationship to battle feild advantage. It might even take more time in a vehicle to vehicle comparison. The point is the advantages gained for the time spent is far more for jets then any other vehicle.

It's the invunerabilty to all but another pilot that makes this so. While the best tanker may have distinct advantages over another tanker, he can be taken out by two reletively inexpereinced AT players.

With no other pilots even the newest of pilots can roam free with the "least" ammount of vunerability. That can't be said for any other weapons platform in BF2. The assumption can't be that there's another pilot, because sometimes there isn't one. When a tank begins to cause havoc, it's not a "get a tank" and kill em situation. Which is what some pilots use as a defense for what I believe is the biggest drawback of the BF series. Which is the "Rock, Paper, Scissors" balancing. Jets don't follow this very ingenious programming balance. In the hands of the best pilots (and even unchallenged new ones) jets become a ROCK, with no paper.

Is it as easy as getting into a jet and hitting the foward key? Of course not. But the least considerate, and most selfish players who want to the "ROCK" with no paper, know the path to this starts at the airfeilds.

Personally I don't comment in game about it. I don't start posts about nerfing this or that. When some one does start a post I will put in my $00.2 worth. Possible a little to harshly as I believe this oversight on the part of EA/DICE is a major sticking point for me in the series, and only seems to be getting worse.

Actually I highlighted those two points in that quote, because I had a problem with those.

Youre mainly focusing on "survivability" against ground units. I agree, a jet can be a "bubble" for someone, so that they wont die from ground fire. However, my main point is, that this is not what bring sin points. Nor what the real problem is. Sure they can survive STA by being above 300-400, but whats the poin if by the end of the game, they have killed 20 people and died 12 times. In the same time, some ground troop has killed 40, and died 10 times.

As for ROCK. I frequently notice the linear thinking of people who belive its all about ONE piece of rock, ONE sheet of paper and ONE pair of scissors. ONE grunt, ONE jet and ONE grunt in ONE AA. With a huge advantage a jet has over ONE AA, we need at least 2 sheets of paper to cover that rock, which is also called teamwork. We also need some rope to wrap that paper around the rock, which is called experience and skill.

Just as a dumbass pilot wont do much of a damage to the ground troops, an inexperienced AAer wont hard no jets.

As for AA, I wish they would take away AA emplacements and set 1 mobile AA for each jet I wish it not for the "balance" because "balance" is already there. I aknowledge that its no fun to play in stationary AA, and I know mobile AA is fun to use, making it easier to spend time there to learn how to master it.