I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

[iburnasses]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Good post,i think the level of realism is pretty well balanced.Although i have been noticing ALOT more lag and dropped games.

[Revoluti0n]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

That's an interesting POV/Observation.
So many people were/are begging for things to be made "easier" in order to help gameplay when all that was needed was a little patience and skill.
I partially blame this on the global stats. Everyone wants the quick kill while at the same time be able to survive anything while they're on foot.
Foot soldier should be afraid when they hear a BH coming. They should want to run for cover for fear of raining death. Instead people think they should be able to face the BH 1 on 1. So what happens? The BH (and vehicles like it) get nerfed.

IMO this is the mentality of the CS/UT type player that came to BF2 primarily because of the global Stats (Another negative aspect of the stats).
Their type of gameplay has always differed from BF gameplay. It was always faster and more ground centric.
BF1942/DC players understand that except for the few "infantry" maps (which still have vehicles) BF2 is a vehicle centric game and always will be.

I'm trying to have some faith that the top mods (I'm waiting for) will save the gameplay. With the removal of global stats the mods are much freer to develop truer balance for their gameplay.

Hey Logan, I agree with that line of thinking all the way along with what Auto-ER- stated in your quote. Unfortunately there is little understanding of how decent and solid this game could be if you leave in all the things that make it different (choppers w/14 missiles for example). Patch after patch has seen the subtraction of some of the elements that made this game popular in the first place. I do not agree or condone blatant and cheap exploits, I never have. But because a few dozen smacktards abuse some sort of game mechanic to give them an "edge", we all have to suffer. In an attempt to remedy this Dice/EA has changed the game and gameplay to such an extent that it is nothing like it was in demo.
I do think that balance comes in with player skill level, you can see this by reading the countless threads here that state "jets are too powerful" and "choppers with twin machine guns are too powerful". Instead of learning to use the vehicles and aircraft for themselves, some decide to start throwing the word exploit around. This is what ultimately leads to the changes in gameplay rather that fixing the real bugs and problems creating a hinderance of the game.
Last year when I was waiting for this game, I thought that it would ahve blown away the longevity and legacy of Counter-Strike for sure. It introduced the modern scenario of combat. It had all the potential to be the #1 all time FPS ever, but soon these extreme and drastic changes stated happeneing and the game was becoming more and more different. Cries of BALANCE!!! BALANCE!!! started to resonate in a way that damaged the game.
I know that some who reads this thread will no doubt say, "Well just uninstall the game and don't play anymore", that is 100% ignorance and it totally overlooks the point being made by all the posts in the thread. I hope that the mods can make the most of the engine and whatever is left after all the changes that will be made before the "Final" patch is released. I even hope that the devs of this game will come to their senses and optimize the game and restore at least some of the changes made to some extent.
At this point, it is not about balance, it is about having fun and finding a solid server or 2 to stay on.

[Lazza66]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

I do think that balance comes in with player skill level, you can see this by reading the countless threads here that state "jets are too powerful" and "choppers with twin machine guns are too powerful". Instead of learning to use the vehicles and aircraft for themselves, some decide to start throwing the word exploit around. This is what ultimately leads to the changes in gameplay rather that fixing the real bugs and problems creating a hinderance of the game.

Although I agree with much of your comments the quoted piece is oversimplified. I am happy to have a completely unrealistic AT dood sprinting behind my tank with a kit that weighs 118kgs (yes, I did my research and math). Although it's completely unrealistic it's pretty much needed for fun, balance and gameplay (and to get people to use the kit).

However having a jet shooting me out of the AA turret before the AA even detects his presence (even though I see him closing) I cannot accept. The AA doesn't have time to aquire the jet, much less lock. This is one example, I can think of many others. No amount of skill and experience is gonna get that AA to lock!

It's wrong to assume poorly skilled players argue for game balance changes because they simply need more practice. I have argued that prone snipers should not be seen by the UAV or scan (unless all enemy spawns are gone), and sniper is one of my 2 least played kits (35 hours vs. up to 700 hours on my fav kit). And not because I'm a bad sniper, but because I think it's just rude that the kit thats supposedly based on stealth simply isn't stealthy.

There are valid arguments for balance adjustments. It's not the cries for balance, realism etc. that are hurting the game. It's the implementation and validity of the 'fixes' that have been done that are hurting the game. The crucial skill needed by the patchers is finding the correct balance.

[WhardieJones]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Everyone plays karkand because there are no planes, helicopters and tanks/apcs don't completly own you 24/7. To get a good score a little one on one skill is involved.

The patches have decreased the amount of skill required in the game. Balancing the game makes it fun for everyone...well not for those who rely on j10 whoring etc etc

Karkand is just USMC capturing the factory so that tehy can get double vehicle spawns and armor whore the map. No skill other than a wrench is required.

[|GRB|Sarge]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Not saying anything here that hasn't already been stated but feel the need to add my 2 cents for some strange reason.

I agree that DICE/EA have taken a poorly chosen approach to balancing the game - by "nerfing" things where some other change may have been a better decision. The only thing that I think that was improved by "nerfing" is the grenade launcher abuse, although they took it a bit too far I think and it could be adjusted somewhere between where it is and where it was when it was the primary weapon of choice :)

The largest complaints that I have regarding balance could have been addressed in (what I think are) fairly simple ways:

Air Power is too strong - Make the existing static AA more effective through better placement and accuracy. In some cases adding mobile AA would be a more effective solution. A pilot that doesn't know where the AA is has to stay on their toes to not get shot out of the sky.

Tanks and APCs pwn too much? - AT rounds that don't travel through them would be a great start. It's much better now than it was, but this still happens quite a bit.

The last change, and this one is waaaaay out there so stick with me: Legitimate and effective cover for infantry. I know that's crazy talk, but if you could enter even half of the buildings on these maps there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints about artillery, armor, helo and jet raping as there are now. Part of the reason that I think the holy trinity of maps are so popular in this game is that infantry can move from point to point via multiple paths with cover.

anyhow, that's my take on it.

[DOGGiE52]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Agree, Garabaldi!