I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

[Lazza66]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

A. The plane does not need to land and it does take some amount of skill to land, make a U turn after, before, or during rearming, and than take off again.
B. A plane that can be resupplyed in air means it can get back to bombing targets very quickly. In BFV a plane could not repair while in mid air from what i recall which made it a more overt and easyer target to seek and destroy after being hit once or twice by AA and trailing smoke.

Ironically, speaking as a pilot, it is the ineffectiveness of the AA "protecting" the airstrip that scares me most about this idea (having to land). Taxiing jets are a sitting duck to other jets because they know the AA protecting enemy airfields is very unlikely to take them out.

[triumph]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Great point.
And
Respawning jets are already a huge target against a skilled player because of this as well because some one in a jet with good timing and some bombs can come by a blow the hell outta that shiney new jet, correct?

[I_M_Weasel0r]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

The balance thing that gets me is the capturing of bases and the extra vehicles it gives. For example.
US on Karkand capture Mec Factory and get 2 tanks and 3 APC's - Mec are now screwed with a 5 armour to 0 armour advantage. (I know Mec should have defended factory but it doesnt happen on publics) This wouldn't be so bad if Mec could use the same tactic but the US base is uncapturable.
Why make maps where one side gets an uncapturable base and the other doesn't. Lots of maps have a tipping point like this (airfield on wake, hotel on sharqi etc) that effectively ends the game for one team as it gets raped by the other.
Maps shold either give both teams a non-cap, or neither a non-cap.
Dices original concept for how the maps should be played may work on organised clan v clan servers but on public servers too many people are there to fight not sit quietly in a backwater defending.

[Solodon]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Its only in EA's/DICE best interst to make game reasonably even. Keeps more people intersted longer to keep sales from expansions and new versions (2142). If teams were not closely balanced and you were on the weaker time, time and time again, you might frustrated and leave. No future money for EA.

Lets not get me started on the Cleric style Rezzes, my airfield bomb loaders mistakenly relaoding enemy planes on a flyby time after time. Ability to spawn out of your commanders hind end time after time. We might lose some of the quake kids with a bit more realism. Why the heck did they make the skins and guns so real if a 50 cal sniper rifle center mass hit can be negated by a medic flopping on a downed soldier, they both get up and skip away.......

[scarywoody]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

I couldn't agree more! I think it has to do with keeping the majority happy....and the majority are whiners. More money comes from the majority, so I don't think anything will change. Eventually you'll be able to take out a tank with a pistol and every vehicle/person will be equal.

[Sheeple Police]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Simple!

Infantry = Infantry

Choppers = Choppers/AA

Jets = Jets/AA

etc etc..

DICE is simply make too many changes to appease the infantry loving player, while they are destroying what BF2 is all about. Large maps with vehicles.

You are basically making an argument to change the entire basis of the BF series. Sure the vehicles are important, but it is also important to have effective counters to everything. Since the AA is useless (everything except the mobile AA's are just big targets) you are basically making the argument that Infanty should kill infantry, planes should kill planes, and tanks should kill tanks. Give me back flak 88's and I will be a happy man, as then the planes will have something to fear on the ground.

[Frogatron]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Personally since the AA was upgraded I have done ok with it, no complaints if positioned correctly and resupplied, rarely if ever fail to take down a couple of jets and helis on any map and I would say I'm a very average player.

The thing I do miss is the BH, used to be great fun manning one of the guns with a half decent pilot, and as someone mentioned earlier, if I was MEC I'd have equally as much fun looking for it in a vodnik with some likeminded squad members again I can't remember having a really bad time with it decimating everythin in sight as some people did, a few vehicles and end of chopper, also just take the BH spawn point early in the round.

Never really bothered with flying Jets as to be frank it's really goddam boring, again some of the issues are a reaction to change, you'll always get it but there is a really pressing issue with the server crashes that's the only thing in all the patches thats been a genuine gripe for me.

[X-ander]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Blackhawks. Remember when they completely dominated Mashtuur? Shonghua? Now fast forward to the present, where the mini-guns can't put a dent in your soldiers helmet. THIS is a direct result of people complaining. Instead of trying to adapt or overcome the INTENDED more powerful obstacle, they bitched and moaned until it was gone.

Thank god i stopped playing battelfield a long time ago.

It was amusing enough when they nerfed the Blackhawks to please the whiners.

Dice should have known that players and bitchers dont make games.

professionalis like them are the ones who are capable of making a game and should never have listened to the populism bitchness about the blackhawk.

[LoganX]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

Its only in EA's/DICE best interst to make game reasonably even. Keeps more people intersted longer to keep sales from expansions and new versions (2142). If teams were not closely balanced and you were on the weaker time, time and time again, you might frustrated and leave. No future money for EA.

That's only 1 strategy and IMO it is flawed.
Making a game playable for "everyone" doesn't necessarily make the game "good". Therefore destroying the games longevity and appeal
If they focused on Gameplay and R/P/S balance the game would retain a more loyal player base and retain a greater level of longevity.
IMO to make a great game you want people to continue to play it even after the next games come out. Look at DC...people are still playing it because it's still fun.

In some twisted sense I understand EA's desire to have people move from BF2 to BF2142 but it's really a horrible strategy. It just makes them look greedy (with they are ).

Instead they should be looking to make this game the best game they can.
Squash the competition so everyone stays here while other games come out AND when their next game comes out they can almost guarantee a large turnover.
I'm sure at this point there's a great number of people who will not move to 2142 because they've lost faith in EA/DICE's ability to maintain a game.

I think EA has gotten very arrogant with this franchise. They think they can do no wrong and will implement changes that they believe are a benefit to them and not to the game itself.

It would also take two or more gooks on the SA-7 to take down a chopper or a plane holding...

Did you just say "gooks"...:hmm:

[Auto-ER-]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

First, to all the people who complain about EA/DICE not caring about their customers. Not true, and it's absolutely ludacris to think that. No company in their right mind would blatantly disregard their customers as it is not wise business practice. I think it's fairly easy to see that DICE supports BF2 and cares about the customers. A patch is released every 2 months or so - offering a ton of gameplay changes and fixes - and while some of you guys may not exactly ENJOY the new features offered in the patches, you can't possibly say that DICE is doing a bad job. I mean, look at all the extra content we have gotten since it was released in June/July!

Extra content? Where? Oh, you mean the extra content we PAID more for, oh yea great support for the community. Oh wait, nevermind, we got Wake for free, that was a show stopper rehashing an old map, great deal for the consumer.

And the patchs, what have they fixed? Not talking about gameplay changes, about the only bug I know of that was fixed is the one where enemy tanks would dissapear from you view while in a tank when you put the reticule on them. Red tag, still there, hitboxs, still fubar, server stability, where? rezooming, when trying to zoom out, yip present and accounted for, trying to drop arty, UAV or supplies on a Dalian, hope you know how to compensate for the retarded misdrops, looped gunfire sounds from team mates, firing away. These are just a few.

If they want to show the community that they stand behind them, offer some of this new content for free, at least a couple maps. EF is a joke, not enough people bought it, so the majority of servers can't run the maps in rotation, it's going to be the same for AF.


The problem with balance isn't the game, it's player skill. A ace chopper crew can make a team, even if their ground sucks. A dedicated pilot flying in support of his team, instead of just bombing the big point targets can be devastating. I have played rounds where teh other team was actually manning AAs and humvee guns, and let me tell you, when the enemy is playing well, it can get hairy up there.

[LoganX]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

...The problem with balance isn't the game, it's player skill. A ace chopper crew can make a team, even if their ground sucks. A dedicated pilot flying in support of his team, instead of just bombing the big point targets can be devastating. I have played rounds where teh other team was actually manning AAs and humvee guns, and let me tell you, when the enemy is playing well, it can get hairy up there.

That's an interesting POV/Observation.
So many people were/are begging for things to be made "easier" in order to help gameplay when all that was needed was a little patience and skill.
I partially blame this on the global stats. Everyone wants the quick kill while at the same time be able to survive anything while they're on foot.
Foot soldier should be afraid when they hear a BH coming. They should want to run for cover for fear of raining death. Instead people think they should be able to face the BH 1 on 1. So what happens? The BH (and vehicles like it) get nerfed.

IMO this is the mentality of the CS/UT type player that came to BF2 primarily because of the global Stats (Another negative aspect of the stats).
Their type of gameplay has always differed from BF gameplay. It was always faster and more ground centric.
BF1942/DC players understand that except for the few "infantry" maps (which still have vehicles) BF2 is a vehicle centric game and always will be.

I'm trying to have some faith that the top mods (I'm waiting for) will save the gameplay. With the removal of global stats the mods are much freer to develop truer balance for their gameplay.

[imported_extremepilot]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

OK Smartass, I will stop worrying about balance if you can fix the crashing issues.

[Dugman44]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

This game started out in v. 1.1 with balanced , exciting gameplay where individual skill was rewarded. There were fun and dramatic ways to kill your fellow gamers. It also had reasonably good functionality. With each absurd patch, it gets farther and farther from its starting point. Now its broken, plain and simple. From a functional standpoint, it operates poorly, frequently crashing and disconnecting the player, along with a cartload of other much discussed issues. As for gameplay, it’s become an intolerable joke.
Case in point. Yesterday on Mash a team of snipers took spamming clays to a new level. Four or five of them worked excellently together and put them in every alley, around every doorway, and on every stairway leading to Hill. They did it the whole round. Then they would work around behind us and shoot us in the back as we tried to work around their clays. You could spot them, but you couldn’t remove em, and then you’d get an L96 in the back. And yes, when you caught them spamming they did the sniper charge, running up to you to drop a clay at your feet before you could kill them.
The other pleasant thing was that Mosque square looked like a parking lot. It needed a valet. Every time we tried to leave to assault Hill, another Vod would show up and some fool would open up on the fifty. Vehicles were everywhere. It turned into jeep and vodnik combat, which gets old after about, oh, say thirty seconds.
Is that fun gameplay? Is that the way Dice originally intended things to work? Absolutely not. Go back to v. 1.1 of the game and you can see what it was versus what its become.
I will agree its always possible to “adapt and overcome” the huge gameplay changes that EA has unilaterally and for whatever mysterious reason chosen to implement with each patch. In other words, those who soldier on will work to achieve “balance” each time the game is jolted to its foundation. The real question is, is it fun, and how many in the community are willing to do what it takes. I’m not. I shouldn’t have to spend the entire round as AT, or get in a Vod and play fifty cal shootout.
Like it or not, the guts of this game is/was infantry combat. The reason for that, IMO, is that killing someone one on one, or one on two or three, is that it takes skill, creativity, and is the most rewarding activity the game offers. But far from catering to infantry, EA has done its best to kill off the infantry, by making assault and spec ops useless classes, and now by making sure that everyone who wants one gets a mobile mounted fifty to kill those stupid ground pounders.
I’m deleting 1.3 and going back to unranked v. 1.1. When that’s totally dead, if they haven’t reverted back to ground zero and started doing what they should have done in the first place–fixing technical issues and making new maps--I’m done with the franchise. And yes, I know EA will never turn the clock back, but I’m hoping, because this was a game that should have been a classic and played forever like CS.
To sum up, going from functional to dysfunctional and balanced gameplay to out of whack gameplay is not doing a good job. By definition, it’s a lousy job. EA has done a lousy job. And for that, I say no to AF, and no to 2142, and would urge everyone else to do the same.
Sorry for the rant. I had to get it off my chest because I love the game.

[Lazza66]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

This game started out in v. 1.1 with balanced , exciting gameplay where individual skill was rewarded.

WTF?? Choppers that could take what 4 tank shells on the nose and not even start smoking, yeah good balance pal.

[Paas]

Re: I think we all need to sto worrying about balance so much..

You people are so full of... you know what.

Whatever. I'm actually not in the mood to cut down this entire thread with logic because I honestly feel it would be wasted.

I'll try to sum up my view as quickly as possible:

In context of BF2 in it's unpatched form:

Most of you are saying how things "SHOULD" be in the actual vehicles and devices the models in BF2 represent don't even function as well as they do in the "Real World". So, your concept of how things "Should" be is based off of some false notion of the effectiveness of Arms in reality. Reality is not a basis for argument in BF2 so this entire stance of "Anti-Balance" is moot from the get go.

I could understand if this was a simulator, yet this is not. It's a Arcade MM-FPS. That's it, it's nothing more, nothing less.

For the few of you to sit here and, "Yada' yada', Jets should be dominate, A.A. worked just fine, balance isn't needed, noobs this, pubs that" is downright silly and annoying.

The least some of you could do is some research into the real-world capabilites of half of the Armor and Air Assets, and follow that up with some Research into the counter measures employed against them. You would be shocked and amazed just how little water your perspectives hold.

No balance..!?; for God's sake... some people.

{WP}Paas