Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

[Komet.nl]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

Its a safe bet that most people here have played counter-strike at least once so here we go..

Valve/Steam has better anti-cheat
Valve/Steam has better net code
Valve/Steam has better server browser
Valve/Steam has better pings
Valve/Steam has better loading speeds

EA/DICE has ranks

Whats missing cause it looks like a game thats about 100 years old and costs $9 is better than every Battlefield title which are new and cost $50

You forgot the biggest difference between CS1.6/CS:S and BF2

Battlefield 2 Has Punkbuster

Steam Has Vac2 and CS 1.6 and CS:S is fully loaded with Cheaters unlike bf2..

I think It's pretty safe to say that BF2 has waaay less cheaters then Counter-Strike..

I myself also play CS but I like BF2 way more not because graphics but because of gameplay.. CS is my 2nd favorite though I don't play it as much as before..

If EA/DICE and Steam combined their productes and knowledge..

[Teaves]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

Valve/Steam has better anti-cheat

LMAO i can only assume he is joking :laugh: :laugh: they didnt even activate the VAC2 until around 18 months after the game launched, and its STILL not fully functional. Punkbuster is much better because the Hardware ID ban is global

And remind me how many maps in CS are as big as 64 player BF2 maps, so the loading time argument is irrelevant. I will howeever agree that the server browser is better, although the favourites list keeps getting broken.


The fact the steam is REQUIRED to be running at all times trumps all and makes it 100 times worse then BF2 imho, i bought EF online and have not loaded up the downloader since that day, i wish Valve would learn lessons from EA downloader.

Plus the fact CS:S is basically the same game launched in 1999 (7 years ago next month) and has run its course for most people that have played from the beggining. Myself i havent touched CS since i installed BF2 nearly a year ago and i think BF2 is 100 times better.

[Uranium235]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

VAC cant stop ****. They ban like 5 weeks later. Punkbuster owns VAC like anything. There are as many hackers in CS as there have been in pre VAC times. VALVe is a bit better with steam though and bug fixing. Steam provides exellent update system. They also squish bugs pretty quickly. One thing that ****ed me off about CSS was the lagging hitboxes. They were fixed though.

[$kelet0r]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

Cheating is far from epidemic. I have failed to see any cheaters over the past 2 years in any VAC-protected server.

The netcode argument is complete ********. It has been disproven many times and the main reason people think that the netcode is bad is either:

A) Due to a movie that used modified Cvars and bugs that have been fixed
B) Due to the fact that people play on low-tick servers
C) Because they screw about with their net settings, for instance cl_interp 0

CS:S has never and will never have Vehicles. It is a game featuring Terrorist and Counter-Terrorist operations in mostly urban environments, where vehicles are out of place.

The Physics doesn't cause lag at all, It simply takes a good server to run it.

20 ping in server browser, and 1000 ingame

You really seem to be talking out of your ass here

Well I may as well respond...:p
OK I'll put things in perspective to start with
I'm a senior member of halflife2.net, so I am a Valve fanboy like I am a DICE, Bohemia and Maxis fanboy
I've been playing valve games since 1998 especially hldm, hl2dm, cs 1.3->1.6, css and dod as well as a handful of decent mods

Right to the debate
The point that counterstrike will never have vehicles is irrelevant, the fact that BF2 does and has loads of them too justifies a longer loading time. Physics cause lag because they require more information to be calculated server side and distributed, now in HL2dm you balance that out by having tiny maps and you still will generate substantial lag as a game goes on - somple fact, the law of diminsihing marginal returns kicks in. CS1.6 netcode is flawed still mainly because hitboxes are calculated server side rather than client side,and because of the loss of connection issues you get in cs. Nothing has been disproven - the reason cs1.6 is so popular is because it has had 6 years to perfect its code, BF2 had solid netcode out of the box - almost all issues with the game were related to packet loss which was a client connection issue and game bugs. As for the poor ping calculator well you'll either have to play some more or take my word for it - it's gotten so bad lately that I ignore the lowest ping servers in my browser knowing full well that the first 50 at least could be false reads.

One thing that perplexes me is how people call BF2 a buggy game. Having played halflife 2 soon after it shipped it was plagued with AI bugs, sound and graphics issues, map displacement errors, loading problems, exploits and crashes - some of which still arent fixed despite steams weekly updates. Then you have BF2 which did not have game crashes to the same extent (CTD usually only occurs after extended play due to RAM overload), bugs that were annoying at most but hardly gamedestroying and regular very large updates. And the issue seems to come down to the fact that it is cool to hate EA but cool to kiss Valve's ass. As someone who appreciates both developers it annoys the hell out of me the discrepancy in treatment.

[Desertfox]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

Its a safe bet that most people here have played counter-strike at least once so here we go..

Valve/Steam has better anti-cheat
Valve/Steam has better net code
Valve/Steam has better server browser
Valve/Steam has better pings
Valve/Steam has better loading speeds

EA/DICE has ranks

Whats missing cause it looks like a game thats about 100 years old and costs $9 is better than every Battlefield title which are new and cost $50

1. Better anti-cheat? 8/10 scrims I play in for 1.6 have cheaters in them.
2. If by net code you mean registration have you checked out some source servers? NOTHING hits
3. I Agree with that
4. better pings? in source you dont have 63 other peoples ping affecting yours
5. they dont have to load vehicles like the other guy said

there anti cheat is HORRIBLE

[Unorignal]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

i bought CSS and played it ONCE! therefore bf2 > CSS, IMO anyway

[vets.Sarge]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

Right to the debate
The point that counterstrike will never have vehicles is irrelevant, the fact that BF2 does and has loads of them too justifies a longer loading time. Physics cause lag because they require more information to be calculated server side and distributed, now in HL2dm you balance that out by having tiny maps and you still will generate substantial lag as a game goes on - somple fact, the law of diminsihing marginal returns kicks in. CS1.6 netcode is flawed still mainly because hitboxes are calculated server side rather than client side,and because of the loss of connection issues you get in cs. Nothing has been disproven - the reason cs1.6 is so popular is because it has had 6 years to perfect its code, BF2 had solid netcode out of the box - almost all issues with the game were related to packet loss which was a client connection issue and game bugs. As for the poor ping calculator well you'll either have to play some more or take my word for it - it's gotten so bad lately that I ignore the lowest ping servers in my browser knowing full well that the first 50 at least could be false reads.

I never said anything about the loading times - BF2 has more to load, thus take a longer time to do so.

About the hitboxes:

You might want to read This to start with

and your 'no client side calculation' argument is completely and utterly wrong. Why? Well, here's why:

The question arises, why is hit detection so complicated on the server? Doing the back tracking of player positions and dealing with precision errors while hit detection could be done client-side way easier and with pixel precision. The client would just tell the server with a "hit" message what player has been hit and where. We can't allow that simply because a game server can't trust the clients on such important decisions. Even if the client is "clean" and protected by VAC (Valve-Anti-Cheat), the packets could be still modified on a 3rd machine while routed to the game server. These "cheat proxies" could inject "hit" messages into the network packet without being detected by VAC (a "man-in-the-middle" attack).

Full article, might clear things up a bit for you: click.

[Eternal-Souljah]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

LMAO i can only assume he is joking :laugh: :laugh: they didnt even activate the VAC2 until around 18 months after the game launched, and its STILL not fully functional. Punkbuster is much better because the Hardware ID ban is global

And remind me how many maps in CS are as big as 64 player BF2 maps, so the loading time argument is irrelevant. I will howeever agree that the server browser is better, although the favourites list keeps getting broken.


The fact the steam is REQUIRED to be running at all times trumps all and makes it 100 times worse then BF2 imho, i bought EF online and have not loaded up the downloader since that day, i wish Valve would learn lessons from EA downloader.

Plus the fact CS:S is basically the same game launched in 1999 (7 years ago next month) and has run its course for most people that have played from the beggining. Myself i havent touched CS since i installed BF2 nearly a year ago and i think BF2 is 100 times better.

Just want to say that Steam was put in because Valve are so paranoid about their products being pirated, idiots they made it worse for themself, may have prevented alot of piracy of their products but it also produced massive numbers of unhappy customers. Valve are clueless and should start listening to the gaming community.

[imported_Boots]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

ranks is only thing EA has going for them... EA is worthless as a company... I wish they didn't buy Ubisoft, Dice and Redstorm; the gaming community would have faired better if they didn't.

Oh, and customer support is non-existnant

[Slacker317]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

TFC > BF2 > CS:S

o

[kiss my RICE]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

Man, are you serious? CS isn't fun at all.
1. The maps are cramped like hell, look man, face it, BF2 is CS only on a bigger, better map.
2. More people, dude, CS is nothing like Bf2 simply becuz you have the 32 and 64 person maps, and everything in between.
3. Less reality, dude, in CS even with body armor, you have like 2 health, granted its more realistic, but the CS community is not kind to noobs, unlike the Bf2 community.
4. No voip, yeah...
5. No teamwork, dude BF2, even with unusual sightings, encourages teamwork -Cs doesn't. Playing in a squad really make you feel good, like your helping out your whole team by helping capping that flag, or sniping that sniper before he could take out your friend...its just that good.

[ConscriptVirus]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

theyre diff games and so its hard to compare..but i like valve better...easier to update w/o failure and ive had a lot less problems with it...but on the other hand...with someone with only like 512mb ram...steam eats up a lot of ram

[AliasJay]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

Good points for both sides so far

To go more into the cheating side, anybody that played CS before Steam probably saw more cheaters than legit players, and thats no boast thats just the cold hard facts that were true for every HL1 mod. If you remember CS was a community mod before Valve bought into it. They saw how popular it was, and how bad it was, and decided that the power of a company could turn it around and give everybody what they wanted. They cleaned up CS1 before CS:S hit the shelves, so PROPS for that ..giving people something great for free.

Now CS:S comes out, sure people cheat it, what game is free of cheating. The biggest difference and best differentiating factor between Valve and EA/DICE is that ..if you cheat on VAC ..even once ..youre done, you dont play anymore, you buy the game again or spend time on crappy unprotected cheat infested servers. Cheat on BF2, and get caught ..banned from 1 server ***PROVIDED THAT YOUR CHEAT IS DETECTED, which 99% of the time its not*** and then you just go find a better cheat lol.

To get off topic ..not only is the corporate force more atune to the game ..the players are as well. Your average BF2 player/admin is so ignorant to cheating that they will protest till death that its skill not hacks. Cheat on CS:S even with something thats undetected and the majority of people in the server are going to instantly know and call you on it. On BF2 ..if you know what to look for, keep it to yourself, because you would have a better chance of getting head from the king of england than getting an admin to kick a cheater. I wont even give odds on the chance you have of getting the needed ammout of people to press page-up, as most would rather vote-kick you out for even suggesting that somebody cheat.



and to that kid who said go play Cs:s and stop talking here ..i think im capable of doing both, it seems youre only ability was to post some twit remark while others added something to the conversation :}

[i made you]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

Good points for both sides so far

To go more into the cheating side, anybody that played CS before Steam probably saw more cheaters than legit players, and thats no boast thats just the cold hard facts that were true for every HL1 mod. If you remember CS was a community mod before Valve bought into it. They saw how popular it was, and how bad it was, and decided that the power of a company could turn it around and give everybody what they wanted. They cleaned up CS1 before CS:S hit the shelves, so PROPS for that ..giving people something great for free.

Now CS:S comes out, sure people cheat it, what game is free of cheating. The biggest difference and best differentiating factor between Valve and EA/DICE is that ..if you cheat on VAC ..even once ..youre done, you dont play anymore, you buy the game again or spend time on crappy unprotected cheat infested servers. Cheat on BF2, and get caught ..banned from 1 server ***PROVIDED THAT YOUR CHEAT IS DETECTED, which 99% of the time its not*** and then you just go find a better cheat lol.

To get off topic ..not only is the corporate force more atune to the game ..the players are as well. Your average BF2 player/admin is so ignorant to cheating that they will protest till death that its skill not hacks. Cheat on CS:S even with something thats undetected and the majority of people in the server are going to instantly know and call you on it. On BF2 ..if you know what to look for, keep it to yourself, because you would have a better chance of getting head from the king of england than getting an admin to kick a cheater. I wont even give odds on the chance you have of getting the needed ammout of people to press page-up, as most would rather vote-kick you out for even suggesting that somebody cheat.



and to that kid who said go play Cs:s and stop talking here ..i think im capable of doing both, it seems youre only ability was to post some twit remark while others added something to the conversation :}

I think that's almost 100% ********. VAC is a complete joke and I don't think you know how many people use cheats in CS:S. The gameplay in BF2 is also much less random than CS.

I think BF2 is better than CS:S in every way besides updates and new maps. Overall, Valve is better because of HL and HL2 against Dice's games.

[Metasynaptic]

Re: Valve/Steam vs. EA/DICE

That and after playing CS for 6 - 7 years, it gets kind of boring.

Some people would rather stab themselves in the eye than play Dust again.