Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

[maranello]

Hello everyone,

well i need your help about a few things:) First of all, i am planning on selling my old computer (its 9-10 months old).

P4 3.0 Ghz
Intel DXCV925 MoBo
2 GB DDR2 533 Mhz
eVGA 7800 GT (475/1075 mhz)
sound blaster audigy 4
SATA 80 GB (10,000 rpm)

I am planning on selling only the tower, nothing more.

Question 1: First of all, how much can i sell all this stuff for?

I actually don't want to give up my DDR2 rams but i want to use AMD in my next computer and AMD doesn't support DDR2 yet.

Question 2: Is it worth buying a FX-60 or X2-4800? Or is FX-53 or 55 very good? Note that the computer i am giving up is highly good. I can play BF2 on 1600 x 1200, all high settings, 32 AA, 16 AF, and i get around 65-70 fps. So don't just say "any FX model is superb" I want "the" best computer i can build. But i don't want to waste my money on FX-60 just because its 100 mhz faster than 55. is it really worth paying $300-400 more?

Question 3: Is there a "huge" difference between 7800 GTX and 7800 GT? Also, compare these two, SLI 7800 GT x 2 or SLI 7800 GTX x 2. Now the 512MB GTX is enormously expensive, but if it really does make a difference (consider the video quality i am getting now which i outlined above), i will wait 2 more months, save more money, and i will buy it. But if its just going to increase my fps by 5 and add tiny little details to picture quality, i don't want to waste my money on it.

Question 4: Does this idea sound good to you? "Don't sell graphics card and sound card, buy another 7800 GT, use both of them, don't sell harddisk (80 GB is enough for me, i backup my stuff to DVDs), and buy either an FX-55 or 57 or 53 or X2 4800+ with a new MoBo and new rams" Or should i completely sell my PC and build a brand new one?

Question 5: My Intel motherboard supports 4GB of DDR2 ram. I know that AMD will release chips that support DDR2 but i need to wait at least 1 year to be able to afford them. I am wondering if AMD motherboards support 4GB of RAM. if they do, what is the maximum Mhz they support? What is the best quality RAM you suggest? Does the RAM quality (paying $200 for 1 GB ddr ram for instance) make a lot of difference?

Question 6: What can i of motherboard should i buy for these CPUs? I know 55,57,60 all are socket 939. So can i buy "any" socket 939 motherboards? How about x2 4800?

Facts:I did some research on hardware parts and here is what i found:


CPU
AMD 64 FX 60 = $1015
AMD 64 FX 55 = $790
AMD 64 FX 57 = $810 (i guess $20 is not a lot)
AMD X2 4800+ = $630


Motherboard: I found the following motherboards;

Asus A8N-SLI Premium nForce4 SLI Athlon 64(FX)/Sempron/Athlon 64 X2 Skt939 DDR mboard Retail $170

ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Athlon 64 FX/Athlon 64 Socket 939 nForce4 SLI ATX 4GB DDR 2000MHz FSB MBD (NEW) A8NSLIDELUXE ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Athlon 64 FX/Athlon 64 Socket 939 nForce4 SLI ATX 4GB DDR 2000MHz FSB MBD (NEW) $174

ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe mboard Athlon 64 FX/X2/Sempron nForce4 SLI X16 Socket 939 ATX 4GB DD A8N32SLIDELUXE ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Motherboard Athlon 64 FX/X2/Sempron nForce4 SLI X16 Socket 939 ATX 4GB D $216

RAM:

There are thousands of them ranging from $50 to $900. Which one is the best brand? (i m planning on having 1024 x 4 = 4 GB ram)




What's the difference between the last two motherboards? Also, there seems to be a lot of ASUS motherboards. Well first of all, is ASUS still the best MoBo manufacturer? Also, which one of the ASUS mobos do you recommend?

I know i asked a lot of questions, but it looks like this system will cost me around $1500-$2000 (just tower) and i want to make sure i get the best out of it.



This is all for now, if you can answer all these questions properly instead of writing everything all together, i'd be very happy.

Thank you very much for your time.

Regards,

Maranello

[rombaft]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

Question 2: Is it worth buying a FX-60 or X2-4800? Or is FX-53 or 55 very good? Note that the computer i am giving up is highly good. I can play BF2 on 1600 x 1200, all high settings, 32 AA, 16 AF, and i get around 65-70 fps. So don't just say "any FX model is superb" I want "the" best computer i can build. But i don't want to waste my money on FX-60 just because its 100 mhz faster than 55. is it really worth paying $300-400 more?

First of all, this is impossible, there isn't a pc on the market playing BF2 on 1600*1200 everything high AA 32x (??) 16x AF , even the new 1900XTX crossfire in combination with an OC'd FX 60 didn't reach 70FPS on 1600*1200 AA 8x, AF 16x .

Second, no, the do not buy an FX CPU , those are just overpriced CPU's , for example the curent 4000+ is exactly and exactly the same CPU core then the FX-53 , and the 4000+ has even a better memory controler .

What is the difirence with an FX and a non FX ? not the slightly higher clockspeed, but just the unlocked multiplier, wich is actualy almost never used for OC'ing because everyone rases the HTT (the FSB actualy) .

Get a 4600+ X2 or maybe a 4800+ X2 (also 700-800$ ) , these will do just fine, and OC them about 200Hz .

Yes, there is a diffirence between the 7800GT and the GTX , the GTX is just faster, and can be more OC'd , I think you can take a rule that the GTX will be 10-20% faster then the GT version depending on application , but do not buy the 512Mb version, overpriced card .
Also, remember, when buying a 7800 now, you will regret next month, in march the 7900 series will be release, having 32 pipelines instead of 24 and higher clockspeeds , expect the best comming next month.

question nr 4
if you are changing this much already, better change everything, things like a HD you can keep, for an 80Gb HD you won't even get 40$ , just use it in your next system as a back up disc or something .

AMD boards also support 4Gb of ram , the memory controler is much improved and can handle it perfectly . but I would not recomend 4 Gb of ram.

Expensive ram ? is only and only and only worth it if you plan to OC the ram memory , otherwise it does exactly the same as cheap ram memory .

Ram in AMD boards works at 400 (effective 200) . but can be OC'd (depending on ram and mobo) .

Yes, AMD will bring out DDR2 with there M2 socket in the third Q this year (still 4 or more months away) , I would not wait for it because it will have some small bugs in it in the beginning

[Sir. MatDef]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

First of all, this is impossible, there isn't a pc on the market playing BF2 on 1600*1200 everything high AA 32x (??) 16x AF , even the new 1900XTX crossfire in combination with an OC'd FX 60 didn't reach 70FPS on 1600*1200 AA 8x, AF 16x .

Second, no, the do not buy an FX CPU , those are just overpriced CPU's , for example the curent 4000+ is exactly and exactly the same CPU core then the FX-53 , and the 4000+ has even a better memory controler .

What is the difirence with an FX and a non FX ? not the slightly higher clockspeed, but just the unlocked multiplier, wich is actualy almost never used for OC'ing because everyone rases the HTT (the FSB actualy) .

Get a 4600+ X2 or maybe a 4800+ X2 (also 700-800$ ) , these will do just fine, and OC them about 200Hz .

Yes, there is a diffirence between the 7800GT and the GTX , the GTX is just faster, and can be more OC'd , I think you can take a rule that the GTX will be 10-20% faster then the GT version depending on application , but do not buy the 512Mb version, overpriced card .
Also, remember, when buying a 7800 now, you will regret next month, in march the 7900 series will be release, having 32 pipelines instead of 24 and higher clockspeeds , expect the best comming next month.

question nr 4
if you are changing this much already, better change everything, things like a HD you can keep, for an 80Gb HD you won't even get 40$ , just use it in your next system as a back up disc or something .

AMD boards also support 4Gb of ram , the memory controler is much improved and can handle it perfectly . but I would not recomend 4 Gb of ram.

Expensive ram ? is only and only and only worth it if you plan to OC the ram memory , otherwise it does exactly the same as cheap ram memory .

Ram in AMD boards works at 400 (effective 200) . but can be OC'd (depending on ram and mobo) .

Yes, AMD will bring out DDR2 with there M2 socket in the third Q this year (still 4 or more months away) , I would not wait for it because it will have some small bugs in it in the beginning

Exactly, and I've been saying this now for weeks. The only machine capable of 32xAA at all is the dell one with the quad 7800gtx 512mb. You should only get 2gb of ram, and don't go with a fx, either get a x2 4800+ or an opty 170 or 175 and oc the hell out of it.

[abtomat74]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

Also agree on NO for 4gigs...are you planning to run a server or does the sound of 4gigs just seem like something fun to say?

Someone already selling a system as good as your "old" one, will definately be onto DDR3 by the time anything comes close to needing 4gigs of ram.

Or wait until early summer for AMD's new socket called M2 which will support DDR2. That way you can save your ram you have now...

[UnrealAlex]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

I think you should stay with your computer. It works perfectly fine, why would you dish out extra money on overpriced high end hardware? Im sure it plays all games very good for you, so why bother changing it? I would give that computer at least a year before I would change it.
But then again, its your money.

I dont reccomend you buy the best hardware out, its usually over priced and prices go down very quick...and the performance increase is not that dramatic. Im a huge noob compared to these guys ^ but I think I speak some sense.

[maranello]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

Well, thanks for the long reply. I really appreciate it.

First of all, i do get 65-70 fps, at least that's what renderer.drawfps 1 gives to me. I am definetly not lying. Even though i get such good fps, because the monitor runs at 72 hz at that resolution, it doesn't look very bright, but anyways back to the topic.

I reviewed FX-60 and FX-57 benchmarks that i found in various websites.

FX-60 is 200 mhz slower than 57 but it has 2 cores, 2 times more transistors, and so on. It is better than 57 in applications such as DVD encoding, video making, photoshop, 3ds max, etc. However, 57 is better in games, such as BF2. There is at least 15-20 fps difference between 57 and 60 (in 57's favor of course). Now this sucks! For the first time in my life, i have enough money to buy myself a good nice computer and i wanna go out there pay my money and get the best computer i can get (don't think i am rich, i have been saving money for a year now just for this:)) but no! If you buy one of them, it has disadvantages, if you buy the other one, it has other disadvantages.

None of the computer games support Dual Core CPUs. and let me tell you, they won't be supported until after january 2007 or maybe summer 2007 or maybe more. Look at the 64 bit CPUs. When was the first time 64 bit cpus were released? 2 years ago if i remember correctly. There is not a single game that supports it (even though the owners of 64 bit cpus would benefit a lot - being a CS major, i can certainly tell there is a huge difference between 32 and 64 bit cpus). forget about games, even windows x64 doesn't have full driver support for over 80% of hardware out there.

This is why i am scared of buying a FX-60 or a 4800+. If this wasn't the case, i would buy it now without thinking. But after everything i heard about the people who had to do bunch of stuff to get BF2 working on a 4800+, i am really very scared of buying a dual core CPU.

Regarding to what you are saying about FX-60 and 4800+. I would go on and on for pages here the difference between the two. There is a lot. The architecture, memory modules, registers, ALUs, data paths, and tons of other things. 4800+ might have the same core with FX-60, but there is a lot more than the core in the CPU. There is a reason why FX-60 costs $400 more than 4800+ which i just found for $600. Yes there may be "overpricing" factor, of course there is, this is how AMD makes money, but not much, maybe $100 or maybe $150, the rest is worth.

In my way of thinking, if i am going to buy something, rather than buying something good, i try to buy the best. Maybe i can't buy it whenever i want to and yes maybe i need to wait more time to save that much money but when i buy it, i know i am buying the best CPU. If i want to buy 4800+, i am now going to think, there is not much difference between 4600 and 4800, then i d say, why paying $150 more for 200mhz, lets buy 4400 and so on.

The fact is, after 4000+, it really doesn't matter much if you have a GTX video card and a 2 or 4 GB of system memory. After that, it becomes more like a hobby and extreme quality.

If you really want to see the difference between 4800 and fx-60, here is a link for you:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/10/review_amd_athlon_fx-60/page6.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/10/review_amd_athlon_fx-60/page7.html

You can see that in multi thread applications 60 makes a lot of difference, but in other applications, there is a little difference.

However this is not why i am posting here (kind a went off topic i guess). I am trying to say, FX-57 is single core, faster, more stable, much better for gaming and $250 cheaper than FX-60. However FX-60 is better in multi threaded applications such as encoding, video making and so on (which i will never do btw) but it WILL be better than 57 one day in games too but i dont know when that is

[maranello]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

Guys guys, i am NOT planning on OC ing anything. I don't want to! I wanna put the CPU in and that's it. I don't wanna do anything else. I m too old for OCing CPUs. I dont wanna wory about the cooling and the timing settings, the bios, the drivers and so on.

I run servers from my machine from time to time, BF2 servers, CSS servers. I have a T1 connection and right now, this machine can hold 10-12 players in BF2 without any lag and 15-20 players in CSS without any lag. But yeah i might definetly run a server.

I am also a programmer and from time to time i have large projects to do, especially with OpenGL, assembly, C++, and so on. These languages do require high memory and CPU power when you work on large projects. For instance you should see my computer when i compile a C++ library consisting of 155 files each with 5000 lines of code or more. Now that is a pain in the a$$ and you have to do it in every 15 minutes when you debug. This increases the amount of time it takes for you to do the job by hours not minutes.

[imported_Wreck]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

Second, no, the do not buy an FX CPU , those are just overpriced CPU's , for example the curent 4000+ is exactly and exactly the same CPU core then the FX-53 , and the 4000+ has even a better memory controler .

Comparing an FX 53 to a 4000+ is not a fair comparison. The FX53 is a clawhammer 13 micron core, while the current 4000+, (the one with better memory controller), is a San Diego core 90nm processor. THe FX CPU's are binned for high speed, and memory controller stability. They also have an unlocked multiplier. Although I agree there is no reason to buy one, lets get all the facts on the table.

If you want to save your DDR2 then wait for AMD's socket AM2 which supports it. I see no reason to buy now if that is something you'd like to keep. AM2 will be out pretty soon, hopefully next month.

There is no difference between and FX 60 and a dual core Opteron except an unlocked multi. In fact the Opterons are overclocking just as good if not better.

Please if you know so much I'd love you to list the differences.

You do know that the 4800+ is 200mhz slower than an FX60 right? That is why the FX60 scores higher.

[Sir. MatDef]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

Since you obviously want to do this, buy the fx-60 and then give it a measly 200mhz oc and *bam!* you have two fx-57's. There is no real difference between the fx-60 and the 4800+ except the fx has unlocked multi's and is binned better. I never said you were lying about your fps, I was just telling you that you are misinformed about the quality level.

[Sir. MatDef]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

Guys guys, i am NOT planning on OC ing anything. I don't want to! I wanna put the CPU in and that's it. I don't wanna do anything else. I m too old for OCing CPUs. I dont wanna wory about the cooling and the timing settings, the bios, the drivers and so on.

I run servers from my machine from time to time, BF2 servers, CSS servers. I have a T1 connection and right now, this machine can hold 10-12 players in BF2 without any lag and 15-20 players in CSS without any lag. But yeah i might definetly run a server.

I am also a programmer and from time to time i have large projects to do, especially with OpenGL, assembly, C++, and so on. These languages do require high memory and CPU power when you work on large projects. For instance you should see my computer when i compile a C++ library consisting of 155 files each with 5000 lines of code or more. Now that is a pain in the a$$ and you have to do it in every 15 minutes when you debug. This increases the amount of time it takes for you to do the job by hours not minutes.

By this description, you need a dual core.

[maranello]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

For the DDR2 thing. 4 months is a lot for me. I have maybe 1 year maybe 1.5 year until i get a permanent job. My job will probably require me to work 60-70 hours per week and thats when i will say bye bye to gaming. Waiting is definetly out of question for me. I just want to play the games the way i want on extreme high settings. I want to be able run servers from my machine without being have to optimize settings and so on.

About the 2 GB vs 4 GB thing. You would say the same for 2 gb 1 year ago. now look at where we are, you cant play a decent round with good fps in bf2 without 2 gb of ram. Its like the optimal hardware you need to have to get good fps. Same will happen 6 months or a year later. You ll see that BF3 will make everyone buy 2 gb more ram.

also as i said, i do run servers, that's why i need 4 gb.

[Sir. MatDef]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

For the DDR2 thing. 4 months is a lot for me. I have maybe 1 year maybe 1.5 year until i get a permanent job. My job will probably require me to work 60-70 hours per week and thats when i will say bye bye to gaming. Waiting is definetly out of question for me. I just want to play the games the way i want on extreme high settings. I want to be able run servers from my machine without being have to optimize settings and so on.

About the 2 GB vs 4 GB thing. You would say the same for 2 gb 1 year ago. now look at where we are, you cant play a decent round with good fps in bf2 without 2 gb of ram. Its like the optimal hardware you need to have to get good fps. Same will happen 6 months or a year later. You ll see that BF3 will make everyone buy 2 gb more ram.

also as i said, i do run servers, that's why i need 4 gb.

Ok, but since there are only 1gb dimms out right now, you will get a nice performance hit by going 4x1gb. Also, shouldn't you be considering more along the lines of a 2xx opty?If you run servers, compile code and do other things of that nature it would be a better idea to go with tyan mobo and two 265(?) optys.

[maranello]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

By this description, you need a dual core.

Yeah well ask me whether gaming or programming is more important or in other words, whether playing games faster or programming faster is more important

[maranello]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

To finalize the discussion:

I am not planning on upgrading my CPU or any other thing within the next 1-1.5 year because of the reason i just gave above. So answer the following question without thinking "the games will use dual core in the future" because they won't within the next year:)

So, considering that, FX-57 or FX-60?. I am not considering any other options as i have been waiting to buy an FX processor for years. I am not giving up this time

PS When AM2 is launched, will it be a new CPU. I mean will there be a new FX-57 and FX-60? or will they just optimize the motherboards?

[Sir. MatDef]

Re: Planning on building a new computer and selling the old one

To finalize the discussion:

I am not planning on upgrading my CPU or any other thing within the next 1-1.5 year because of the reason i just gave above. So answer the following question without thinking "the games will use dual core in the future" because they won't within the next year:)

So, considering that, FX-57 or FX-60?. I am not considering any other options as i have been waiting to buy an FX processor for years. I am not giving up this time

PS When AM2 is launched, will it be a new CPU. I mean will there be a new FX-57 and FX-60? or will they just optimize the motherboards?

There will be a all new set of procs for the am2 boards, and they will not (obviously) be compatible with the socket 939 boards.
Honestly I think you're making a mistake. With your description you really want this:

http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8we.html

Now, add two 265's (for the same price as one fx-60) and you have a quad core system that can handle 4gbs of ram with plenty of room for expansion, pci-e and everything else you can think of. Plus, it'll game really good.