dual 7800gtx pics??

[Pirelli]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

Unless you place that graph in a field of relevance it really serves no purpose other than having pretty colours

If you see the source on the image, it comes from http://www.anandtech.com/
These guys lives and breathes hardware tests. Im sure they know their business.

[maranello]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

Really? I see the XTX beating the GTX 512 by about 10 fps at around that resolution with AA:






Which proves you are just a fanboy with no real information to add. The Battlefield series is a Direct 3D game which has always run better on ATI cards. The fact that Nvidia and EA have a advertising contract just means Nvidia pays EA to put that logo there and nothing more.

The one that i found (actually i saw two different reviews) was different. But what you are showing is ridiculous, because i have the following system:

P4 3.0 gzh
2 GB DDR2
7800 GT

And i get 45 fps with 2048 x 1536 resolution. There is no way that a 512MB GTX can get 51 fps with a lower resolution.

Btw, i run the game on 1600 x 1200, 32 AA, 16 AF, and i get no less than 65 fps constantly (except iron gator where i get 25 fps).

And I am not an Nvidia "fanboy". I have used 9 ATI cards for the past 10 years or so and this is my first Nvidia video card. I had X600XT 256 MB PCI-e and i was getting horrible stutter and lag. I did some research about the BF2 engine, Direct3D and about ATI vs Nvidia, and at the time, which was around 5-6 months ago, 7800 GT did not have any alternative from ATI. The best ATI card that was out there was 850XL and it really sucked compared to 7800 GT. Not that it was a bad card or anything, but there was some serious performance, fps, and quality problems, artifacts on the screen, black graphics, invisible shadows, you name it. That's why i decided to buy Nvidia. And i still think that i would still buy 7800 GT if it was today because paying $515 to x1900xt is totally ridiculous. I would pay $300 (maybe you can buy it for cheaper price) and get 7800 GT. Why? Of course ATI has better technology than the 7800 GT, BUT, as a person who has studied OpenGL and Direct3D for 1 entire year, i can say that an average user, which consitutes over 90% of BF2 community today, will not see enough difference to make that much money worth.

You need to have $600 monitors, that support 80-100hz at those resolutions to be even able to see those graphics. You will play the game on the same resolution i play (if you have enough ram of course, if not, then probably 1280 x 1024 which is worse) and won't see any difference at all on the "quality" of the picture you get (maybe a little bit, but a human eye can not pick those difference). What you will see is, if i get 70 fps with 1600 x 1200, you will get 80. What does it matter? Nothing. Of course "it is better" but as long as it is over 60 fps barrier, it's the same old thing. Maybe if you get as close as 1 inch to the screen, and if you have a bionic eye, then you can see the difference. So tell me is it worth to pay $250 more for this? It depends, if you are one of those guys who buy a desktop computer every 3 years, then yeah, go ahead and buy it, but if you are like me who upgrades his desktop computer every 6 months, then you are wasting money.

One more example, the AMD has released FX-60 and X2 processors. I am not buying it. Why? Because none of the games use the dual core technology yet. The same thing goes with x1900xt, it has better technology, but none of the popular games, quake4, bf2,css,hl2, fear, AA, etc, use its technology. The only difference you will see is the "speed" not the "quality" and as i explained above, the alternatives for x1900xt are pretty good with almost half of its price, so its waste of money.

That's ATI's biggest mistake and it's actually not a mistake since they don't aim gamers mostly. They also aim their products to modelers, producers, graphic designers (in those fields ATI is SO MUCH better than Nvidia). In contrast, Nvidia is just for gaming. Of course they do sell the cards to above people, but it's minority. The problem is, ATI is always late when it comes to releasing video cards. Game companies mostly work with Nvidia to make the games look better. They optimize their games based on Nvidia's drivers and graphics designers work with Nvidia engineers. In fact Nvidia has a department dealing with Game Development (ATI doesn't). So, in conclusion, ATI has released a better card, but let me tell you this, by the time BF3 is released, i guarantee you there will be a better Nvidia card and it will outperform ATI and again i gurantee you ATI will release their cards 5-7 months after BF3, and it will be to late.

Make a research about how many people bought Nvidia vs. ATI after BF2 release. You will see what i am talking about. ATI makes better video cards, does have better technology, and does have a big chunk of market (more than Nvidia) but they do NOT aim gaming and game technology as much as Nvidia does, that's why, Nvidia is better with games (not for a little bit though)

[maranello]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

If you see the source on the image, it comes from http://www.anandtech.com/
These guys lives and breathes hardware tests. Im sure they know their business.

Never rely on hardware tests that those companies make. Not because they are not telling you the truth, but because things they test will perform a lot different in your computer than they do in their tests They use lots of hardware optimization, high quality rams, different clock cycles, different RAM timings, and so on, which an average PC user have never heard of.

[Pirelli]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

Im sure they take the target public into account or they would loose all readers pretty damn fast. Sorry, but I trust them more then anyone in these forums.

[Sir. bzb]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

Im sure they take the target public into account or they would loose all readers pritty damn fast. Sorry, but I trust them more then anyone in these forums.

Without the article and only the notion that for some reason it be expected that a reader of a post justifys the posters opinion via detective work it is kinda impossible to agree or disagree. Not having the energy to guess where on large website a specific relevant article might be i may never know!

[Twisted-]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

I think the graph can't hold any weight in this argument, for a game like bf2 you can't simplify performance into a graph. If the game included a time based demo like F.E.A.R then i'd say the graph would mean abit more. However with bf2 there is so many things that affect frame rates it's hard to compare cards.

[Pirelli]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

The graphs sure makes things easier then just doing guesswork for the readers, who probably for the large part are regular non tech minded gamers seeking advice.

Its also easier to discuss if you can show some form of hardware tests done by a professional team of hardware testers. Is a mile better then not having test articles at all, as they test on identical equipment.

[abtomat74]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

And for BF2, even if ATI made the uber super cool video card with the half of GTX's price, i would still not buy ATI, i would buy Nvidia, because this game (BF2) is totally meant to be played with Nvidia graphic cards. It's the way it was coded and built

LOL, you're a moderator here and said that?!?

That is the most rediculous statement I've ever read on a game forum. I think a lawsuit might be in effect if it were true.
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For everyone: I'd like to point out that in ALL reviews of video card showing ATI vs nVidia...you should ONLY look at the benchmarks that include eye candy(AA/AF).

IGNORE the pure speed benchmarks...why? Simple, when the reviewers test pure speed mode, the default settings for each card is used.
However, the default settings for nVidia and ATI differ from one another.

The only setting to mention here is the default image quality which nVidia sets to QUALITY mode, while ATI's default is HIGH QUALITY.

So, when you see a "pure speed" benchmark, make note of the fact that the ATI card is processing more information due to its higher defaulted IQ level. So when you see nVidia beating ATI without eye candy, it's a pointless comparison because they are not on equal settings.

ONLY when you activate the AA and AF do the settings become equal and worth comparing.

[Pirelli]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

I have asked the Anandtech Senior CPU & Graphics Editor to comment on the debate, so lets hope they reply. :)

[abtomat74]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

Have you got a graph including sli'd nvidia cards, it might be more relevant...

It's not the x1900, it's the x1800's vs SLI...so you can assume the x1900 is at least equal to the x1800. OpenGL games are still in favor of nVidia, but ATI is improving greatly.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...ire-x1000.html

ATI still has no official driver for the x1900 cards...so expect to see more improvements soon. It's a little too early to compare fairly.

Problems with a graph showing performance in a game is its kinda pointless, what was on screen at the time or is that an average and if so of what?

Benchmarks are always done using homemade demos of specific levels or areas of a given game. Therefore it does exactly as you ask, it puts each card through the exact same test as the others.

[imported_Wreck]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

Have you got a graph including sli'd nvidia cards, it might be more relevant...

Note that our benchmark for BF2 had problems with NVIDIA's sli so we were forced to omit these numbers

This graph is for nothing else but to demonstrate just the opposite of what maranello is claiming about those cards. You can actually just skip over it and if you really want to read the full review then here ya go:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2679

Benchmarks are always done using homemade demos of specific levels or areas of a given game. Therefore it does exactly as you ask, it puts each card through the exact same test as the others.

Anandtech uses a demo actually made by Dice for their BF2 benchmarks. It's official.

[leebo]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

I thought that when games are developed under contracts from certian video cards that the games are actually tested and optimized with those cards. As in Half Life 2/ATI, Doom 3/NVIDIA, and BF2/NVIDIA. Of course the games will run on both cards fine, but I'm pretty sure that some of those partnerships mean more than just fancy marketing.

[modifierLE]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

I go by toms hardware folks

here is thier graph:







Full article => http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/...nes/index.html


I think its pretty impressive that 1 7800GTX can perform as good as 1800's and 1900's in crossfire.


Ya cant beat nvidia's nForce4 chipsets and SLI configurations. Thats just my opinion remember. Plus all the Nvidia Cards ive owned have been more stable than the ATI cards my brother has had. And the drivers are rock solid as well.

[imported_Wreck]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

The thing is there is no good chipset out for Crossfire yet. The current RDX200 is a not mature or well designed. Nvidia has had at least a year to improve on their SLI boards. ATI is releasing a new chipset RDX580 in February that will be stable and a great enthusiast chipset. Also the drivers for crossfire are not mature as well as there not being official drivers even out for the X1900 cards.

BTW. Tom's hardware is the worst review site of all times. They don't even have a BF2 benchmark in that review.

[modifierLE]

Re: dual 7800gtx pics??

Because they dont have BF2, does that mean they are the worst review site of all times?

Nay....

Over the many years of building computers if found Toms hardware very usefull when selecting parts. Also they have great write-ups on new stuff.

I use many sites for refrence but THG is in my top 3.