WinXP isn't going anywhere

[=98=]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

All cool kids run FreeBSD :p

Anyway, formatted and when back to Vista because i can't get CoD working... and i need CoD:WaW (ohno)

[AlecJ32]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

I honestly appreciate you paying for vista to beta test it through at least one service pack through Win 7.

I didn't, and I will definitely benefit from your sacrifice.

If you didn't try Windows Vista, then how do you know whether or not it REALLY is a hunk of junk. You only have secondary sources, and by the time they all put their pen on the paper, it's completely incoherent. You'll read one thing about Vista and it'll equate it to horse poop. You can then read another one and it'll call it the best thing since sliced bread. If you really want to form your own opinion, you'll have to use the operating system.

Let me put forth my opinion, free of all that sensationalist mumbo jumbo. This all comes from first hand experience with the operating system.

First off, it's a hell of a lot more stable than XP has ever been, and this is coming from someone with 5 or 6 XP keys who's been using XP for 5-6-7 years now. There's absolutely no motive for me to hate XP.

As you may or may not know, the Windows Operating System Architecture consists of both the User Mode and the Kernel Mode. Code executed in user mode does not have direct access to vital system resources. The driver model used in Vista and expanded upon in Windows 7 pulls a significant amount of driver code out of the kernel mode and into the user mode (This is partly why you can install drivers without rebooting in Windows 7) because errors in kernel mode are much more likely to crash the operating system than errors in the user mode. I have a feeling that now that drivers have matured properly, this has a bit to do with why Vista and Windows 7 are so stable.

Vista was the best thing in the past decade for Ubuntu, in particular, and also OSX, although mac folks seem to gravitate towards Steve Jobs whatevever.

Unless the open source community switches gears in a big way, Linux, or any other open source operating system for that matter, will never be mainstream. The only real competition for Microsoft is Apple's unix operating system, OS X. I could elaborate on this point, but I have a feeling the moderators wouldn't appreciate me derailing the thread.

That's just looking at the data, rather than your techfanboi appreciation.

It doesn't matter what the data says. Anybody who's actually used Windows Vista knows it's a very stable, very fast, very functional operating system.

I look forward to Win 7 release. The only thing that would make it not good enough to reassert MS's monopoly on operating systems is if they bork it or make it cost $200-400.

You look forward to Windows 7, yet you're bashing Vista? Considering that Windows 7 is to Vista what Windows 98 is to Windows 95, I don't see why that makes sense.

All cool kids run FreeBSD :p

No way, man. The cool kids all build source-based Linux distributions by hand. See Linux From Scratch.
Also, don't really do that. I tried it, the end result wasn't all that impressive, so I felt like I wasted a good chunk of time. Really, a modest Gentoo setup will get you the same thing/something better. When I do use Linux, for some obscure reason, it's usually Gentoo.

[Kradath]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

Maybe it's a matter of perspective, then. From your point of view, the features Windows 7 adds may seem totally worth it. For me, they don't really give much benefit.

Installing drivers without rebooting is pretty damn ****in' awesome. Am I going to pay $100 for it? Probably not.

Now, if they redid the Audio Stack Architecture and reduced the latency through the DirectSound interface enough that I wouldn't need to use things like Audio Stream Input Output, I'd probably find that a great feature.

That is the point many don't understand about Vista and Seven. If you expected a few, but massive changes with vista or now with 7 you will most likely disappointed. But there are small things, like the reboot you're mentioning and there's a great amount of them in both new windows versions.

I once installed XP because Vietcong didn't want to run on vista and nearly every second click I did made me realize how much, small but great, things they have changed with them.

The whole control panel is, the explorer structure(the libraries in 7 look great), the games explorer, the taskbar, the style(yes, I love the style, why shouldn't I? It is not the main reason for buying those OSes), the great 64bit support(I didn't hear that great things about xp64) and so on. The list is long with small, on the first view minor changes. But you feel them, as I said in nearly every second click where I think in XP "Oh my god, how complicated this and that was, how badly structured and categorized".

I don't want to say that everyone should move over to the new OSes, no, everyone should at least try it somewhere and see for him or herself. I had many discussions with my girlfriend back the days because she didn't understood why I bought vista, because it is not worth it from her point of view. She then used my computer, worked a bit on it and she started understanding why I liked it. Now she thinks different of vista, but she was right in saying that it was; not to say a mistake, but it was unnecessary; that I've bought it directly when it came out. The same with a friend who didn't see any use in Vista as well, he tried it out somewhere and 2 days later he had his own.

Do you get these small things somewhere else? Maybe a handful of them and sometimes for 50$ or whatever in some pack that tries to imitate it. Seven is cleaned up, neat and it's just a nice feeling using it, you save time and nerves, everything is build up logically and nicely.

I have Vista and I'd like to get seven as well, the step from xp to seven will be a great one for many, the step from vista to seven is a smaller one, maybe if I get a systembuilder version for a nice price (thank god they're available for everyone in europe) I'll get it as well. :)

[iQue]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

I had Vista for a year but after an update failed installing and everything screwed up badly, I had to reformat and install XP because I didn't have a install CD and the system restore thingy you get with prebuilt computers didn't work properly either. And I broke the warranty anyway :p

Being back on XP again I can say that I like Vista better, never had any compatibility problems or so. If you buy a new system it would be silly not to upgrade to Vista/7 but if you don't need to buy a new OS changing feels unnecessary unless there's a feature you know you'll be using a lot. I'm just fine with my XP :)

[megawhompertoo]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

If you didn't try Windows Vista, then how do you know whether or not it REALLY is a hunk of junk.

I never said it was pure junk. It was just not effective as an operating system for my needs, and certainly not worth paying real money for as long as XP could be reinstalled ad nauseum. I take care of about 15 P.C.'s in a science department, and Vista implementation on the first few was such a nightmare that we started requiring people who wanted support to send their PC's back and put XP on it. That, of course, doesn't apply to you early adopters who wanted DX10.x, and it doesn't apply to all the folks who've "chosen" Vista because that came with their PC's on the shelf at Worst Buy and Circuit Chitty*.

Now, that's separate from the fact that Vista plainly and simply won't talk to 2-5 year old tens-of-thousands of dollars worth of instruments that our taxpayers bought for us. Blame that on the vendors if you will, but a little--just a wee tad--backward compatibility wouldn't have broken MS to implement, imho.

If you didn't try Windows Vista, then how do you know whether or not it REALLY is a hunk of junk.

Even had I no experience with Vista, the suggestion that I should spend my own dollars to "try it" at home after everything I have read about it is a tad silly. I'm not going to "try" a geforce 5200, either, just to make sure it really ain't worth the price of admission, either, lol. How many Pentium D's did you "try"? I tried one for about eight months, but I got it for $54 and I overclocked the beejaysus out of it while I waited on C2D's prices to fall. Guess what, everybody and their mum was right on that one, too, but for ~$50 for a 65nm dual core?

If you're happy with Vista, that's just super. I refuse to spend my money to "try" something that the world at large has laughed at. Microsoft and I thank you for your support, and I look forward to a more polished product worthy of my dollars.

Win 7 just might be the one!

You look forward to Windows 7, yet you're bashing Vista? Considering that Windows 7 is to Vista what Windows 98 is to Windows 95, I don't see why that makes sense.

I'll reiterate for ya: I'm not really bashing Vista, other than stating my opinion that there were insufficient reasons to justify spending money on it. There were extra-shiny rocks via DX10.x, there were some security measures that MS finally implemented, and there was the "new" notion that when you log in, you don't want to always log in with admin privileges as the standard. That made the OS more secure for lots of people who don't know any better. The downside was more MS DRM infectionware, steeper hardware requirements, and general bugginess at least thru the first service pack.

Still not worth my money. I'm definitely interested in Win 7 now that I've seen it. I find it puzzling that after I commented positively on Win 7, you've felt the need to defend Vista so vigorously.

Just be happy with it. :P

[AlecJ32]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

Now, that's separate from the fact that Vista plainly and simply won't talk to 2-5 year old tens-of-thousands of dollars worth of instruments that our taxpayers bought for us. Blame that on the vendors if you will, but a little--just a wee tad--backward compatibility wouldn't have broken MS to implement, imho.

Backwards compatibility can only go so far. It's a dual effort, and if the other party isn't pulling their weight, the first party can't make the stuff work. Microsoft can try as they want. If the instruments don't have software or drivers that is compatible with Vista, there really isn't a ton Microsoft can do about it.

Even had I no experience with Vista, the suggestion that I should spend my own dollars to "try it" at home after everything I have read about it is a tad silly.

You haven't been reading the right stuff, then. I find there's a pretty broad range of opinions. The 'VIZTA SUX' opinion is hardly the only one out there.

I'm not going to "try" a geforce 5200, either, just to make sure it really ain't worth the price of admission, either, lol. How many Pentium D's did you "try"? I tried one for about eight months, but I got it for $54 and I overclocked the beejaysus out of it while I waited on C2D's prices to fall. Guess what, everybody and their mum was right on that one, too, but for ~$50 for a 65nm dual core?

Hardware is a completely different ballpark. Comparing hardware is pretty straight forward. Comparing an operating system is a lot more vast and complex.

If you're happy with Vista, that's just super. I refuse to spend my money to "try" something that the world at large has laughed at. Microsoft and I thank you for your support, and I look forward to a more polished product worthy of my dollars.

Do you think the world at large has a good understanding of computers and operating systems, or that the world at large is just spouting things? What credibility does the world at large have? The world at large is comprised largely of people with little credentials to make themselves credible, and little understanding of the matter they're dealing with.

I'll reiterate for ya: I'm not really bashing Vista, other than stating my opinion that there were insufficient reasons to justify spending money on it. There were extra-shiny rocks via DX10.x, there were some security measures that MS finally implemented, and there was the "new" notion that when you log in, you don't want to always log in with admin privileges as the standard. That made the OS more secure for lots of people who don't know any better. The downside was more MS DRM infectionware, steeper hardware requirements, and general bugginess at least thru the first service pack.

If you're not bashing it, why did you liken it to a pre-alpha release?

The whole 'DRM infectionware' issue is completely stupid, if you ask me. I can tell you that nobody with any first hand experience with the operating system complains about DRM. DRM is only a problem if the DRM solution is highly intrusive. Most users aren't even going to know it's there.

Could you elaborate on the whole problem with DRM in Vista, because as far as I know, it's not something you'll see on the front end at all.

I find it puzzling that after I commented positively on Win 7, you've felt the need to defend Vista so vigorously.

You weren't merely commenting positively. You were also criticizing Windows Vista harshly. If you truly don't have negative opinions of Windows Vista, why would you say things like 'it could only be described as Pre-Alpha'?

[megawhompertoo]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

why would you say things like 'it could only be described as Pre-Alpha'?

Hmm, that's just how I describe buggy software.

I'm not telling you that you shouldn't love vista, because telling folks what to enjoy isn't my game. Life's too short, lol. All I'm saying is that for $200-$300 bucks, I think I've done much better waiting, and I offered my firsthand experience and the majority of what I've read...and I take everything I read on the interwebs with a grain of salt, or a dumptruck full of it.

So, enjoy your Vista, please. I'll keep my dollars and my copy of XP until Win 7 comes along at least.

[AlecJ32]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

Hmm, that's just how I describe buggy software.

It really isn't buggy though. XP was just as buggy at release as Vista was at release, if not more so.

[=98=]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

XP was bad at release. Even i know that!

[megawhompertoo]

Re: WinXP isn't going anywhere

It really isn't buggy though. XP was just as buggy at release as Vista was at release, if not more so.

XP was bad at release. Even i know that!

true. it's stable now, nearly universally compatible, and secure (enough), so that if you're not my granny or you know better than to install software from your long lost Nigerian cousin you can have a reasonable expectation that you won't get any malware (or any more than you're willing to pay for, lol).

and that's why lots and lots of folks will maintain the status quo.

i'm ready to give 7 a shot if it's as good or better at release than it is now. just going to have to figure out (or borrow) another strategy to defeat that creepy old p3rv3rt named WGA if it comes to that.