Alex is going watercooled

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

Yea, you would use a water loop for that.

I have the kind of thing running at my work. With air cooled it can go down to -70C, but with chilled water it can go down to -100C. Dew point is the limit, otherwise on a dry day it can go down to -110. The detector module is in sealed in vacuum, so CPUs may vary.

[Bisley_Bob]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

Yea, you would use a water loop for that.

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

Ahh yes, i see, similar veins though. Aside from people failing with mini-fridges you don't see a lot of chilled water among the overclocking community, i think it's quite a lot of effort and expense for not a great deal of temperature gain over a good water loop. The next step up from plain water would probably be a TEC/Peltier for most.

You still need something to bring heat away from TEC hot side.

Forgot to mention. Chilled water at 4C is almost as good as you can get from Phase change coolers. The reason? Heat transfer is the key here, not absolute temperature. To get way higher, you need way colder than -50C. Phase change usually get 220K, while best water cooling can get you at 280K. But compare to LN2 at 77K (and still liquid), PC is not much superior to CW.

[Bisley_Bob]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

Ahh yes, i see, similar veins though. Aside from people failing with mini-fridges you don't see a lot of chilled water among the overclocking community, i think it's quite a lot of effort and expense for not a great deal of temperature gain over a good water loop. The next step up from plain water would probably be a TEC/Peltier for most.

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

Drop by http://www.overclock.net/phase-change/ i'm not massively clued up on it, some of the guys on there make their own phase units.

Thanks. I think we're talking about different things here.

Phase-change cooling uses the refrigerant in direct contact with CPU heatsink. Chiller water cooling is still water cooling, except the water is chilled by whatever means. Phase-change cooling is the way to go for suicide test. It is for cooling CPU only, not a system cooling solution. Chilled water cooling is for system cooling. If you have enough cooling capacity, you can hook up anything in a computer to be cooled down by chilled water, even cluster.

[Bisley_Bob]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

Drop by http://www.overclock.net/phase-change/ i'm not massively clued up on it, some of the guys on there make their own phase units.

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

It has been tried quite a bit actually, i've seen quite a few threads about just that in the past. The reason it doesn't work is because refrigerators are designed to keep your milk and beer cold, that is a very different load to what an overvolted cpu gives out. Most people who do this will find it works great for a few days, leave the house and come back to find their cpu gently smouldering because the compressor unit broke. If you want to chill your cpu you need to get a good air conditioning unit or make yourself a custom chiller that is capable of the load a cpu gives out.

I've never seen that. Link maybe?

That's compressor failure, but the idea did prove it works. The lessons learned here is to get a good compressor. I don't know exactly what his setup was, but if the compressor is stripped off it's oil components, it will failed very soon. Also you need at least 0.5HP to handle typical computer heat. A lot of fridges are installed with 1/4HP compressor and some smart control so they can cut price down. The proper way requires modification so that it runs as a one or two stage water circulator.

Those lab-grade water circulators are designed to handle continual operation like that.

[Bisley_Bob]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

It has been tried quite a bit actually, i've seen quite a few threads about just that in the past. The reason it doesn't work is because refrigerators are designed to keep your milk and beer cold, that is a very different load to what an overvolted cpu gives out. Most people who do this will find it works great for a few days, leave the house and come back to find their cpu gently smouldering because the compressor unit broke. If you want to chill your cpu you need to get a good air conditioning unit or make yourself a custom chiller that is capable of the load a cpu gives out.

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

Why do people buy Porsche 911s when a Bugatti Veyron is better?

Why do people even buy Porsche when a Toyota Yaris does the job just right? If computer attracts hot, hot, very hot chicks, then we'll see people dough out $10000 to buy a computer.

Well, the chiller is the extreme, and it's actually not that expensive. You can find used items on eBay like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/POLYSCIENCE-MODE...QQcmdZViewItem

Cheaper than crappy Thermaltake drop-in kit before shipping. This will make motorcycle radiator like a joke. If you still think this is ridiculous, you still have the option to go to nearby junk yards, pick up a working small refrigerator that works with a working compressor. Once you have one, you can modify it into a custom water chiller. I am still wondering why that hasn't been done around overclocking community.

[=98=]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

I have a budget. I don't want lasers and freezing things really.

[Bisley_Bob]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

So, if performance is uncompromisable, why not use things like this:http://www.polyscience.com/indust/14to1chill.html

Why do people buy Porche 911s when a Bugatti Veyron is better?

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

Good luck with your budget loop, make a worklog thread on here, i'd like to see pics, how you put it together, performance etc..

Don't worry. It will be done. The problem is that the motherboard came from HP and has no OC feature at all. Nevertheless, Pentium D running 2 thread Prime95 at stock is probably worse than what you can get from OCed C2Q. For some reason I can only check temperature at BIOS.

So, if performance is uncompromisable, why not use things like this:http://www.polyscience.com/indust/14to1chill.html

[Bisley_Bob]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

The 1000l/hr was an example as it was a simple number, i just plucked it straight out of my head. Anyhow, if you are upping the voltage whilst overclocking (which alex will), you want maximum cooling performance, so halving the flow is a ridiculous idea. No overclocker just wants "enough for an average system".

Good luck with your budget loop, make a worklog thread on here, i'd like to see pics, how you put it together, performance etc..

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

Put it this way, lets imagine your pump pumps out 1000 litres per hour. You put your CPU and GPU in series, that means both blocks get 1000L every hour. Then you decide to do the y-splitter thing, now both blocks get 500L each per hour, sure the water reaching the GPU may be 1 or 2C cooler, but it gets half the coolant flow, not to mention the CPU which has massively lost out.

500L/hr pump is good enough for average system with one CPU and one GPU. Actually, more than enough. 1000L/hr system is triple overkill. I just bought a 117gph fish tank pump from some pet supply and y-connectors as well as tube shrink from hardware supply for less than $20. We'll see how it goes in about a week. Since most run system with radiator/fan, and I plan to do it with a milk bottle in water tank (or just large water tank). I should be able to do it with less flux.

Phenom 9950 has a TDP of 140W, and it heats 500L water by 0.22C in an hour. Even if you reduce the amount of water by half, it's still only 0.44C. This is only in static case. Dynamic heat transfer analysis is way harder. The limitation of liquid cooling is how effective heat transfer from the target to water, and effective heat dissipation from water to the enviroment, not the amount of flux in this case.

[Bisley_Bob]

Re: Alex is going watercooled

That electromagnet's cooling system looks very different to what you would have in a PC, it's got way more points of cooling than the two that alex wants to cool. Obviously with that many "blocks" (or whatever they are) in series by the time the water gets to the last one it'll be really hot, not to mention that if each magnet draws more than my rig they will be dumping a hell of a lot more heat into the water than a CPU. And yes, with that many parallel circuits i perfectly see the sense in necking down the hose to keep the coolant flowing fast. None of this apples to a PC in which one CPU and one GPU need to be cooled.

OK, you posted a picture of parallel SLi cards, if you go back to the vadim link i posted earlier they've put their cards in series, tit for tat really. By placing the cards in series there may be a 1 or 2C difference in temperature, big deal, there will be other factors at work too which will make the cards differ slightly in temperature. But overall they will be running cooler as they will get a greater coolant flow per unit time. I'll say again, with high coolant flow each block will not change the temperature of the water significantly, certainly nothing like the heat that magnet loop is having to deal with.

With regards to tubing size, a lot of the enthusiast blocks, like the D_Tek which alex intends to buy, will have been made with 1/2"ID tubing in mind, so won't be necking down the flow like a zalman block would (their resterator kits use much thinner tubing). It's more efficient to put liquids through larger tubes so bearing in mind the pumps used in PCs aren't huge beasts (like i'd imagine the ones you're farmiliar with are) everything should be done to facilitate flow, that means nice wide tubing and a nice simple loop without unnecessary things like y junctions and the extra tubing that goes with implementing them.

Put it this way, lets imagine your pump pumps out 1000 litres per hour. You put your CPU and GPU in series, that means both blocks get 1000L every hour. Then you decide to do the y-splitter thing, now both blocks get 500L each per hour, sure the water reaching the GPU may be 1 or 2C cooler, but it gets half the coolant flow, not to mention the CPU which has massively lost out.