Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

[imported_Wreck]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

No you do not, & saying so is just silly

A pair of 7,200rpm sata drives are not as fast as a pair of 10,000rpm sata drives

Have a good day

peace:)

Well I do the same with a single 74Gb raptor.

[SERIALBUTCHER]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

What's wrong, you got angry just because a couple of kids told you how wrong you were on teh intarwebs? I have a job, and I still know that while you can't build a ferrari with yugo parts,so why use 'em? I do know that you can build a car that would be 2/3 as good for 1/4 the price. Raid 0 isn't for gaming,and won't improve load times for games, trying to convince yourself otherwise is ludacris.

The only person angry is you

I can afford the best, so I am happy

btw your analogy will just about fit just about everything that is "cheap", & all ppl of the "lower class" make that same arguement about everything

But if you can afford it, why not buy the best?, but if you can't don't waste time trying to convince yourself, & everone else that have "descrectionary income" that they are wasting their money on the finer things

Did I pay 50% more more 10-20% better performance, YES I DID, but I can AFFORD IT

Maybe you should consider furthering your education?:) @ least then you won't have to sweat which compromises you are going to make every time you make a purchase

All you jerks know is what you found on the web that fits what you want to hear, I have been building custom gaming rigs (HOTROD PC's) for 5 years

http://home.comcast.net/~ocgw

peace

[lonegunm4n]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

@Matdef: Let the guy argue and waste money. He is the type that once he gets an idea in his head, it's the right one, no matter what someone else said. He spent 300+ (just an estimate, a 74 gb raptor at new egg is 159.99 before rebates) on hard drives, just so he can use Raid technology (which IS pointless for games, and SERIALBUTCHER hasn't posted anything like graphs, etc. to prove his point but just say they didn't optimize the striping), when I get similar performance from a Maxtor 16mb cache 7200rpm drive. Let the guy waste is breath, and money for that matter.

@SERIALBUTCHER: I may not be able to afford the best (despite what you think, I do have a job, but paying for college takes preference over building a computer), but I can certain get just as good performance as you can. Sure, there may be a slight difference in FPS (that 5-10% difference), but I can run BF2 on max settings, as well as many other games. You may not want to accept it, because there is no way my $900 rig can play games very close in performance to what your's can (at least that's what your telling me). But that's just it, I CAN and DO play games on max settings, and play just as well as you do.

if that link you posted is anything to go by, he ONLY has an Athlon XP. Not even a 64 bit processor.

Post your specs SERIALBUTCHER. here is mine:

AMD Opteron 146 @ 2.78 Ghz
2 gigs of OCZ gold edition pc4000 RAM
Maxtor 200gb 16mb cache hard drive
eVGA 7600 GT CO, then oc'ed again by me

[SERIALBUTCHER]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

@Matdef: Let the guy argue and waste money. He is the type that once he gets an idea in his head, it's the right one, no matter what someone else said. He spent 300+ (just an estimate, a 74 gb raptor at new egg is 159.99 before rebates) on hard drives, just so he can use Raid technology (which IS pointless for games, and SERIALBUTCHER hasn't posted anything like graphs, etc. to prove his point but just say they didn't optimize the striping), when I get similar performance from a Maxtor 16mb cache 7200rpm drive. Let the guy waste is breath, and money for that matter.

@SERIALBUTCHER: I may not be able to afford the best (despite what you think, I do have a job, but paying for college takes preference over building a computer), but I can certain get just as good performance as you can. Sure, there may be a slight difference in FPS (that 5-10% difference), but I can run BF2 on max settings, as well as many other games. You may not want to accept it, because there is no way my $900 rig can play games very close in performance to what your's can (at least that's what your telling me). But that's just it, I CAN and DO play games on max settings, and play just as well as you do.

if that link you posted is anything to go by, he ONLY has an Athlon XP. Not even a 64 bit processor.

Post your specs SERIALBUTCHER. here is mine:

AMD Opteron 146 @ 2.78 Ghz
2 gigs of OCZ gold edition pc4000 RAM
Maxtor 200gb 16mb cache hard drive
eVGA 7600 GT CO, then oc'ed again by me

Dude, the reason I am not even going to begin to waste my time trying to explain RAID0 implementation is because you are laymen, & the forums that you quote are run by laymen

Understand 1 thing, sustained transfer rate of the HDD array to memory is what determines how fast a new map is loaded the FIRST time

But you have been to my website, & have already proven to me your inability to read, & grasp simple material

GO TO SCHOOL (it won't hurt you)

btw Now Raptors have 16mb of cache mem OB too, so maybe you laymen buddies should run your graphs again

On my website you see my state-of-the-art $30,000 multi-media room, I think you better look again kid

My specs

Main PC (Built July of 05')

San Diego 3700+ @ 2.8Ghz equivilant to FX57 specs (screenie on my website @ 2.92 Ghz)

http://home.comcast.net/~ocgw2/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2295228.html

2GB GeiL PC4000
2x 36GB Raptors in RAID0 w/ 4kb clusters, & 16kb stripes
1x 80GB ATA133 8mbw/ 128kb stripes storage
6800GT @ 425/1200
Antec True Control 550 PS
2x NEC 3540A DVDRW's
Hauppage TV Tuner/Analog capture
Sound Blaster Audigy2 Platinum

Backup PC

Athlon XP 3000+ Mobile processor @ 2.6 Ghz
1GB kingston DDR400
2x 120GB sata RAID0 w/ 4kb clusters, & 32kb stripes
6600GT
Plextor 708A DVDRW
Memorex DVD ROM/CD-RW
ATI HDTV WONDER
Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum

[imported_Wreck]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

Dude, the reason I am not even going to begin to waste my time trying to explain RAID0 implementation is because you are laymen, & the forums that you quote are run by laymen

You have been to my website, & have proven to me your inability to read, & grasp simple material

GO TO SCHOOL

btw Now Raptors have 16mb of cache mem OB too, so maybe you laymen buddies should run your graphs again

My specs

Main PC (Built July of 05')

San Diego 3700+ @ 2.8Ghz equivilant to FX57 specs (screenie on my website @ 2.92 Ghz)

http://home.comcast.net/~ocgw2/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2295228.html

2GB GeiL PC4000
2x 36GB Raptors in RAID0 w/ 4kb clusters, & 16kb stripes
1x 80GB ATA133 8mb storage
6800GT @ 425/1200
Antec True Control 550 PS
2x NEC 3540A DVDRW's
Hauppage TV Tuner/Analog capture
Sound Blaster Audigy2 Platinum

Backup PC

Athlon XP 3000+ Mobile processor @ 2.6 Ghz
1GB kingston DDR400
2x 120GB sata RAID0
6600GT
Plextor 708A DVDRW
Memorex DVD ROM/CD-RW
ATI HDTV WONDER
Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum

Well I wouldn't say you have money for the best with two setups like that. Here we have another guy who managed to find his way here from the other sections of the board after over 6 months of posting. Has the tech section been cursed lately or is it just me?

Alot of these guys are in school and college furthering their educations. They get jobs during the summer and really don't have alot to spend on PC parts. There is no need to belittle people because they are frugal with their cash and want to spend it on PC parts in the most efficient way possible.

Any of the new Western Digital 16mb Sata 2 drives out now would crush a raided 36Gb setup in gaming. In some cases they even beat single 74Gb raptors. Not only are the 36Gb raptors slower than the 74's they haven't recieved the same firmware updates of the WD740GD-FLA1 which make the newer non-16mb raptors faster than the originals.

Every beenchmark I've seen relating to game load times has shown little to no improvement in Raid 0, and sometimes a performance loss. The performance gain of Raid just isn't there for gaming:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101&p=10

You guys will be wanting to upgrade your raptors once these hybrid drives come out along with solid state drives. No moving parts FTW.

[lil_jimmy_norton]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

I can afford the best, so I am happy

btw your analogy will just about fit just about everything that is "cheap", & all ppl of the "lower class" make that same arguement about everything

But if you can afford it, why not buy the best?, but if you can't don't waste time trying to convince yourself, & everone else that have "descrectionary income" that they are wasting their money on the finer things

Did I pay 50% more more 10-20% better performance, YES I DID, but I can AFFORD IT

Main PC (Built July of 05')

San Diego 3700+ @ 2.8Ghz equivilant to FX57 specs (screenie on my website @ 2.92 Ghz)

http://home.comcast.net/~ocgw2/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2295228.html

2GB GeiL PC4000
2x 36GB Raptors in RAID0 w/ 4kb clusters, & 16kb stripes
1x 80GB ATA133 8mbw/ 128kb stripes storage
6800GT @ 425/1200
Antec True Control 550 PS
2x NEC 3540A DVDRW's
Hauppage TV Tuner/Analog capture
Sound Blaster Audigy2 Platinum

I think it's extremely funny how he is saying his computer is the ****, when it really isn't.....

Just an example of more money than brains...

[lonegunm4n]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

1. Dude, the reason I am not even going to begin to waste my time trying to explain RAID0 implementation is because you are laymen, & the forums that you quote are run by laymen




2. GO TO SCHOOL (it won't hurt you)


3. My specs

Main PC (Built July of 05')

San Diego 3700+ @ 2.8Ghz equivilant to FX57 specs (screenie on my website @ 2.92 Ghz)

http://home.comcast.net/~ocgw2/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2295228.html

2GB GeiL PC4000
2x 36GB Raptors in RAID0 w/ 4kb clusters, & 16kb stripes
1x 80GB ATA133 8mbw/ 128kb stripes storage
6800GT @ 425/1200
Antec True Control 550 PS
2x NEC 3540A DVDRW's
Hauppage TV Tuner/Analog capture
Sound Blaster Audigy2 Platinum

1. I am not a laymen. If I have enough computer experience to get on at a premier IT location, and pass all the battery of tests with a 98% or greater, I am not a laymen.

2. I am going to college. Like Wreck posted, I work during the summer to help pay my college. There is no need for flaming me, just because I am going to school like a lot of other posters here.

3. My 146 is based on the San Diego core, but the Venus core is better than the San Diego core. Mine is clocked at 2.78Ghz, only 140mhz slower than your 3700+ at 2.92, and I am on the stock Opteron cooling. If I was to upgrade my cooling, I could easily hit 3.0Ghz+ with my stepping. My Ram is on the stock latency settings of 3-4-3-8 @ 1T. I have the 7600GT, which is superior to the 6800GT. The only thing really different is the hard drive.

Sadly enough, you paid "50% more" for a rig that isn't as good as mine.

Wreck? Jimmy? any one else? do you agree with what I posted?

Edit: My PSU, recommended to me by jimmy:

FSP Group (Fortron Source) FX600-GLN at 600watts

[SERIALBUTCHER]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

Well I wouldn't say you have money for the best with two setups like that. Here we have another guy who managed to find his way here from the other sections of the board after over 6 months of posting. Has the tech section been cursed lately or is it just me?

Alot of these guys are in school and college furthering their educations. They get jobs during the summer and really don't have alot to spend on PC parts. There is no need to belittle people because they are frugal with their cash and want to spend it on PC parts in the most efficient way possible.

Any of the new Western Digital 16mb Sata 2 drives out now would crush a raided 36Gb setup. In some cases they even beat single 74Gb raptors. Not only are the 36Gb raptors slower than the 74's they haven't recieved the same firmware updates of the WD740GD-FLA1 which make the newer non-16mb raptors faster than the originals.

Every beenchmark I've seen relating to game load times has shown little to no improvement in Raid 0, and sometimes a performance loss. The performance gain of Raid just isn't there for gaming:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101&p=10

You guys will be wanting to upgrade your raptors once these hybrid drives come out along with solid state drives. No moving parts FTW.

1. I am a senior Engineer @ General Motors Corporation

2. I never said I have the "best" PC, I said I am usually the first to load into a map (even on 64 man servers)

3. I usually build a new, or upgrade PC once a year (on my summer vacation), & put the old PC (or parts) in my basement PC

4. My current PC is almost a year old & will be upraded as usual, in the meantime let this soak in, my current config allows me to

4.
a.) Time shift from my HDTV converter directly to my PC, & out to my HDTV "BIG SCREEN"
b.) Edit video from my mini-DV camcorder
c.) Burn dual-layer DVD's home videos, & an occasional friends wedding
d.) Play DVD-Audio to my HT surround system
e.) Time shift over-the-air broadcast TV

5. I have belittled no one, but I do not like bad information being dispersed to the public, making absolute statements that RAID0 gives NO gain in games is patently FALSE, saying you get substantual performance gains from higher speed drives from sustained transfer rates (10K), & additional marginal performance gains from properly setup RAID0 arrays (stripe size optimized to file size) @ a cost unproportional to the gain would be an accurate statement

6. Western Digital up'd the anti by adding 16mb of OB cache to their 10K enterprise class HDD's (Where have you ppl been?) (This is old news)

6. Saying there is no gain from 10K RAID0 arrays in load time is BS

7. Go to my website again, I don't have just nice PC's, I have nice EVERYTHING, wanna' see the whole house? No first show me YOUR website, & house, ANY of you PUNK A$$ NO-IT-ALL KIDS

7. a.) All the entire lot of you can do is provide links to other laymen that play w/ PC's, & don't know any more than you, & you don't build PC's yourselves, or have the website to show them (how lame), I would STFU while I was behind

8. If you can't afford Raptors, how are you going to afford solid state drives

9. PEACE:)

ps. I can't believe those dummies @ anandtech didn't even quote stripe size, or cluster size, or what RAID chip they used, or run multiple tests @ different stripe sizes (I did)

rotflmao @ PC n00Bs who know just enough to not get themselves hurt w/ thjeir soldering irons

God help the lot of you

[LoD]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

1. I am a senior Engineer @ General Motors Corporation

2. I never said I have the "best" PC, I said I am usually the first to load into a map (even on 64 man servers)

3. I usually build a new, or upgrade PC once a year (on my summer vacation), & put the old PC (or parts) in my basement PC

4. My current PC is almost a year old & will be upraded as usual, in the meantime let this soak in, my current config allows me to

4.
a.) Time shift from my HDTV converter directly to my PC, & out to my HDTV "BIG SCREEN"
b.) Edit video from my mini-DV camcorder
c.) Burn dual-layer DVD's home videos, & an occasional friends wedding
d.) Play DVD-Audio to my HT surround system
e.) Time shift over-the-air broadcast TV

5. I have belittled no one, but I do not like bad information being dispersed to the public, making absolute statements that RAID0 gives NO gain in games is patently FALSE, saying you get substantual performance gains from higher speed drives from sustained transfer rates (10K), & additional marginal performance gains from properly setup RAID0 arrays (stripe size optimized to file size) @ a cost unproportional to the gain would be an accurate statement

6. Western Digital up'd the anti by adding 16mb of OB cache to their 10K enterprise class HDD's (Where have you ppl been?) (This is old news)

6. Saying there is no gain from 10K RAID0 arrays in load time is BS

I would'nt necessarily disagree with you.
http://overclockers.com/articles1297/index03.asp

There can be some gains, depending on which game and each person's computer, but the gains are not gigantic in load times. Personally I have seen an almost 0% improvement for games with my 7200 RPM drives in RAID0. To most gamers however, an extra 1.5 seconds on their load time is a better trade off if they can put the money into a better video card for example, or a faster CPU. No one is claiming that a Raptor is slower than a 7200RPm drive (except older raptors against newer 7200 drives) or are they claiming that 2x raports in RAID0 is slower, but that the performance gain is not cost effective for most people. The $ per GB goes up significantly for a marginal performance gain. For a gamer on a budget (probably 95% of the people on this forum) 2x Raptors in RAID0 is not an option.

7. Go to my website again, I don't have just nice PC's, I have nice EVERYTHING, wanna' see the whole house? No first show me YOUR website, & house, ANY of you PUNK A$$ NO-IT-ALL KIDS

7. a.) All the entire lot of you can do is provide links to other laymen that play w/ PC's, & don't know any more than you, & you don't build PC's yourselves, or have the website to show them (how lame), I would STFU while I was behind

8. If you can't afford Raptors, how are you going to afford solid state drives

9. PEACE:)

ps. I can't believe those dummies @ anandtech didn't even quote stripe size, or cluster size, or what RAID chip they used, or run multiple tests @ different stripe sizes (I did)

rotflmao @ PC n00Bs who know just enough to not get themselves hurt w/ thjeir soldering irons

God help the lot of you

Now your just being a bastard with your degrading comments.

[lil_jimmy_norton]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

Too bad money can't buy personality.

[megawhompertoo]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

...blah, blah, blah, hrrumph, e-testerone, hrrumph...4. My current PC is almost a year old & will be upraded as usual, in the meantime let this soak in, my current config allows me to

4.
a.) Time shift from my HDTV converter directly to my PC, & out to my HDTV "BIG SCREEN"
b.) Edit video from my mini-DV camcorder
c.) Burn dual-layer DVD's home videos, & an occasional friends wedding
d.) Play DVD-Audio to my HT surround system
e.) Time shift over-the-air broadcast TV

5. I have belittled no one in the last 14 seconds, let me belittle you some more so that I feel better about being a senior engineer at a (formerly) Great American Car manufacturer whose bonds are junk, that produces crap like the new Hyundai Accent...oops, I mean "Pontiac GTO" (q: does that "inspiration" translate to 'puter building?), and can't keep the promises it made to little old widows whose hubbies worked for GM for forty years...
God help the lot of you

I think you all should give him some credit because

1) He is praying for you

2) He spent $3,000 dollars to time shift American Idol so he could watch it at work, which gives us the best explanation for the GTO I've come across so far.

To CEREALB1TCHER: If your $3,000 BF2/TiVO machine ever breaks down, I'll volunteer to use my AGP x800xt all-in-wonder to send weekly installments of Antique Road Show to you on betamax!

My specs:
1) A computer that I enjoy playing BF2 on, put together for ~$900 12 months ago. (bonus: P4 Prescott doubles as a space heater)

[imported_Wreck]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

1. Who cares where you work

2. I could beat you into a map any day of the week with my single 74Gb raptor.

3. I build a new PC about once a year also.

4. My current PC is fairly new, my other PC is about 1 1/2 years old.

4.
Most modern PC's built this year could easily do the same. Who doesn't have Digital camcorders, DVD burners, and big screen HDTV's?

5. You continue to belittle people in the post I'm responding to.

6. Everyone knows WD raptors have been updated with 16mb cache, why do you keep stating this?

6. I have two 74Gb raptors in my possesion now so I'll just have to see for myself.

7. I don't have a website because I'm not a narcissistic douche like yourself.

7. a.) Anandtech is a very reliable unbiased site as well as ExtremeOC's. We all don't have time to test every little thing ourselves so whats so bad about reading reputable websites for information?

8. I have two raptors and a $3500 PC as my main rig (this is the price of the PC only). I will be getting solid state drives.

9. PEACE:)

[SERIALBUTCHER]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

Too bad money can't buy personality.

@ first I was supposed to be mad because I wasted my money, & could not handle the "fact" that I spent a lot of money on drives that are no faster

1. It wasn't a lot of money to me (I am not on a "college kid budget")

2. They are faster

3. As usual, when I shine a huge spotlight on your BS, I get attacked, & when I hit back you cry foul

rotflmao @ kids that can't take what they dish out

peace:)

[lonegunm4n]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

@ first I was supposed to be mad because I wasted my money, & could not handle the "fact" that I spent a lot of money on drives that are no faster

1. It wasn't a lot of money to me (I am not on a "college kid budget")

2. They are faster

3. As usual, when I shine a huge spotlight on your BS, I get attacked, & when I hit back you cry foul

rotflmao @ kids that can't take what they dish out

peace:)

1. even though it wasn't a lot of money, it was still a waste. You could've built a better computer for a lot less, and either burned the money (yes, physically burn it with fire), or wasted it on payin' the power bill for all your stuff.

2. They aren't faster. We have proven our point. You can sit on that high horse and preach all you want, but have you noticed, no one is even remotely convinced by what you posted. As a matter of fact, you are the only person to post what your saying. No one has come in support of you, and they never will. I posted sayin' what I said, you tried to fight back, but a majority of the computer literate people that post here came and stood up to you.

3. what BS? I have evidence in support of what I said. You cry sayin, and I quote "ps. I can't believe those dummies @ anandtech didn't even quote stripe size, or cluster size, or what RAID chip they used, or run multiple tests @ different stripe sizes (I did)". You want to prove that adjusting stripe size or cluster size you gain better performance with Raid, show it to me with an unbiased benchmark.

I can take what I can dish out. However, I don't need to in this case. I have the evidence on my side. Your wrong.

[SERIALBUTCHER]

Re: Anyone have any real world IDE RAID experience?

I think you all should give him some credit because

1) He is praying for you

2) He spent $3,000 dollars to time shift American Idol so he could watch it at work, which gives us the best explanation for the GTO I've come across so far.

To CEREALB1TCHER: If your $3,000 BF2/TiVO machine ever breaks down, I'll volunteer to use my AGP x800xt all-in-wonder to send weekly installments of Antique Road Show to you on betamax!

My specs:
1) A computer that I enjoy playing BF2 on, put together for ~$900 12 months ago. (bonus: P4 Prescott doubles as a space heater)

To MEGAWHORE

Wanna hear a really good 1?

While GM is laying off thousands (unskilled), they are paying me $33 pr. hr. to sit in class (college) & further my education

I am working on my 2nd degree, & my 2nd Journeyman's card

I have been building, & repairing machines, robots, & PC's for 13 years

I am in my 4th year of college w/ 1 year of pipefitting, steamfitting, plumbing, hydraulics, & pneumatics (Ford Motor Co paid for the pipefitting courses), & 2 years of automotive technology under my belt

I am now taking computer science, electronics, drafting, machining, & welding

I put together my "Masterpiece" of multi-media intergration in my home because (1) I love it, & (2) it is a demo for my customers for whom I build custom PC's, & HT systems

Instead of googling up what you want to hear on the internet, GO TO SCHOOL, & discover for yourself how technology works

Now put that in your pipe, & smoke it kid

ps. You should see the OTHER $100,000 I "wasted" on luxury items thruout my home LOL