Community Update - 2/20/06

[-[gnw]- bumblino]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

DICE is a major company that make many many games. There initiative is to make money. Marketing and CEO's and Board Members are worried about making money and not about pleasing everyone. If there numbers show good, thats all they see. Im sure theres a Programmer or Graphics Designer somewhere that has a passion for the game, but beyond that, its only numbers and $ signs to them.

My main pieve is when people dont understand that and believe that the game was made soley for them and have no understanding on why The big Companies arnt listening to the "Community"

In a franchise like Battlefield, what business sense would it make just rolling out a product solely to make a quick buck?? - If you want to hold on to a market, you have to build on your successes.

"build on your successes" typically means improving on what you've already done.

In many ways they have done this with BF2, but why fool around releasing horrid, clearly untested patches - that leaves some people with a completely unusuable product.

[imported_Apostle]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

Cartire makes some valid points. One of the few sensible posts around here these days.

Well this is crunch time for DICE anyway. This year, (unlike last year) there are some big games coming out. Unreal Tournament 2007, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter, Armed Assualt to name a few.

All these games have the potential to knock BF2 for six. I know I'ill still be playing BF2 after these games are released, but how much? I don't know. I really, really like the look of Quake Wars.

So the booster packs are put in place to partially challenge these games, retaining members of the community, and keeping BF2's profile high. Even these delays give EA publicity. The story was posted on Gamershell, 1up, Shacknews, as I'm sure many other sites.

[uncle_adolphs_dad]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

First of all let me say I have little or no interest in BF2; my son, however, plays the thing for bloody (sorry for the pun!) hours on end and I do, occasionally, like to watch what he's doing!

The only two games I have had any real interest in are Pro Cycling Manager, by Cyanide and Tiger Woods 2005 by the dreaded EA. You may think that BF2 is buggy but I can assure you that PCM knocks spots off it in that respect. I have never known any computer program to have a mind of its own such as PCM has; in fact I got so utterly fed up with the thing and Cyanide's total lack of interest in testing anything (and the game has at least six patches) that I just sold it.

But TW05 I really got into last year and I took part in one of these online leagues which I found very enjoyable. The trouble was that it was so, so easy to cheat (I didn't!) and there were so many bugs in the game causing you to suddenly hit an invisible tree or end up with the ball in a non-existent hole that it became a lottery.

EA could, I am sure, have fixed all or some of these problems if they wished. But why should they? They have had the TW franchise for some years now and each year they issue a fresh game which is, effectively, just a graphical update of the previous one perhaps with the odd new bell or whistle. And they know that, bugged or not, it will sell by the shedload as the online community wants its games to be current. The league I played in could easily use TW05 for this year and I suggested it but had my head nearly bitten off by the chorus of dissenters; they are using TW06 instead which has exactly the same bugs as last year and probably some new ones beside. Oh, and they can't even start the league yet for this year; a program needs to be written to make the league work and EA won't release bits of code so it can be done!

The point I am making, in a very long-winded way, is this. The only way of getting EA or anyone else to produce the quality of games that YOU the consumer want is by hitting them where it hurts; in the pocket. If the new BF2 add-on and all the other bits are really as bad as seems then simply don't buy them. That might start to make EA take notice of their consumers and stop using them simply as glorified beta-testers.

But will it happen? I doubt it....

[Focker]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

EA doesn't produce anything in the battlefield series. DICE does. EA is the publisher. Wish people would learn that.

[[bf40k]Lionheart]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

Jofaba

I hate to make a suggestion that isn't a fix to an earlier problem, but I was just on a server that had really bad base raping. Maybe there should be a death zone on untakable bases for anyone who's not special forces, and if you're special forces and in a vehicle, theres a timer that counts down whenever you're in it, and it doesn't reset (so you wouldnt have him jumping in and out). Probably silly to suggest it considering everything else...]

[EoD-Dev]RavenOne

No actually I like your idea. FH in bf42 had something like this, if you entered a baserape area ie main base, you died after like three seconds. Its something I think all mod teams should think about; I know I am...

Just to get the story straight FH were not the first to make Anti Baserape a standard feature of bf mods. It was Battlefield 40k. I can prove it to.

I set up a poll a long time ago on our old forums to gauge the response of the public to such a proposition 10 Oct 2004.

http://s4.invisionfree.com/Battlefield_40k/index.php?showtopic=461

All the credit for anti basecamp tech however goes to toolazy2p of http://www.serversidemodding.com/ for bf1942.

And our former mapper Zero1942 for implementing it in his Maps Sub-Zero and Blood Canyon

Our first mod alpha release with the anti basecamp came in early June roughly about a week before bf2 was released.

http://news.moddb.com/11964/Battlefield-40K-Released/

FH introduced Anti Basecamp AFTER us yet didn't cite any sources whereas we did.

[-[gnw]- bumblino]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

EA doesn't produce anything in the battlefield series. DICE does. EA is the publisher. Wish people would learn that.

We all know that...

But EA are the string pullers, DICE is the puppet.

EA's marketing / profit machine is what will push DICE to work on different projects or support.

Plus, we cant speak direct to DICE - EA are the Publisher.

If I remember rightly, the pre-release beta testing was done at the EA Redwood Studio in north america??? If they have this kind of input, they are also fairly critical in the development process too.


DICE are great, EA is the devil. :nod:

[Mas'aq]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

I've got a few points to raise here:

1) Corporations/Companies/Game Developers/Publishers/Whatever are not faceless entities working in a void. There are real people at the end of all this. Saying "EA is evil" makes as much sense as saying "The purplemonkey dishwasher ate London". The people in companies make decisions, some good and some bad. Some for purely financial reasons, some for 'higher' purposes. You can be cynical and say 'These people don't give a s-t' , or you can have a little faith that someone out there is trying to do *something*.


2) Games are complex. This sentence is 418 bytes big. (When saved in *.txt format). My Battlefield 2 folder is 2,994,818,823 bytes big. Think about that for a second. That's a HUGE amount of data.

Bugs can be caused by tiny tiny problems in code. Games have a very very large amount of code. You make a few errors here and there, and you're goinig to have problems. Some of them you can live with, some you can't. Some you decide you need to fix immediately, some you can't.

Finding the dodgy code can be a huge task in itself. Then fixing that code- and in a way that doesn't cause OTHER pieces of code to become faulty- takes yet more time. You don't open up Game Editor(tm) and flick checkboxes...

"Ahh yes, we want to stop legs sticking out of walls...*tick*. We'll get rid of those sound loops as well.... *tick*."

The red nametag for friendly troops bug has been around pretty much since game launch, yes? It's a particularly annoying bug for all involved, yes? EA and DICE are a bunch of swine for not fixing it- they blantantly don't care about anything so long as they get their cash, right? No. That's a load of crap. Fact is they've got an immensely big task to do. You can either accept that fact and be thankful, or you can whine away like toddlers because someone spat in your bag of sweets.

Basically- Things Aren't Perfect. Some things aren't perfect because programmers make silly, obvious mistakes - like making missile AI so accurate that a missile can zig-zag between flares and then zoom up sideways to hit the chopper that launched them. Some things aren't perfect because despite all the best efforts of people who are getting paid a living wage to do a job, and therefore have a motive to do it well, just can't find a solution.

We don't know which problems are which. All we know is that we play a game, and it's not great at times. No-one's forcing you to keep playing, and at the end of the day- it's *their* game, not yours. Check the End User License Agreement if you don't believe me

[Sgt Sly]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

Finally someone with some common sense...

It is in their advantage to keep the community happy... but at the end of the day they are the only one who can decide what changes or worth the effort vs return!!!

We can make all the recommandations we want but they are the ones who know what it implies!
Everyone is a codding expert now a day it seems... why they don't get a job I don't know?


I guess the moral of all this is that you should consider yourself lucky if the worst drama you have in your life are bugs in a computer game!!!

[-[gnw]- bumblino]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

I've got a few points to raise here:

1) Saying "EA is evil" makes as much sense as saying "The purplemonkey dishwasher ate London".

I disagree. But perhaps saying they're Evil is probably a little harsh, they're just ignorant.

2) Games are complex. This sentence is 418 bytes big. (When saved in *.txt format). My Battlefield 2 folder is 2,994,818,823 bytes big. Think about that for a second. That's a HUGE amount of data.

So 99.9% of that isn't texture data then?

Dont get me wrong, I know what they've done is feat of programming & miles better than any other multiplayer military shooter, but they did write the game - not knowing how to fix some of the 'aparently' simple problems seems a little hard to believe.

Basically- Things Aren't Perfect.

Very true, and my software isnt perfect either. (stock control, reporting)
But I do find & fix 99% of my reported bugs, ok I dont write multiplayer games - but again, it is their field of expertise, supposedly.

...at the end of the day- it's *their* game, not yours. Check the End User License Agreement if you don't believe me

Well if thing's dont improve in the next patch they're welcome to their freakin disc back as well!!!!!

Only kidding, as much as I flame EA/DICE, gaming wouldnt be the same without BF2.

I'll shut up now...

[-=TANK=-]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

did anyone see this.. they quickly edited the post.. hmm wonder why.. lol

[Godspeed]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

"Working around the ****" ... - hope you don`t work too hard

[Diablokruse]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

I agree with Bumblino...I complain alot about it(BF2)but if you took it away I wouldn't play anything but DOD:S.

[Jofaba]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

What's funny is someone had to point that out for them to fix it lol. Great screen capture. You should submit it for potd =P

[wyliekyle]

Re: Community Update - 2/20/06

lol mad props for the spot, Silly EA watch out for those roosters, they might end up getting you. Maybe this means we will see a rooster kit in the next patch, battle for the slaughterhouse. Noobs will now chuck eggs instead of C4