Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

[jimbob]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

Hmm, what exactly do people think is low-quality about these models? The jeep seems fine to me, and while the character models may be somewhat less detailed than the vanilla-BF2 models, I wouldn't call them terrible.

Sorry, just curious as to what exactly people are commenting on.

take a good hard look at the jeep and see if you can tell me tht it looks like it has been trooping around the hot, steamy and particularly muddy jungles of indochina... tell me if you can see a single paint chip? a scratch? mud on the tires? mud on the lower side of the vehicle? creases on the seats? scorching on the end of the MG? and just a plethora of other weathering techniques which are just devoid from the model... thts whats wrong with it - has absolutely no realistic qualities (sorry guys)... i mean, none of the edges are higlighted for god sake.... if anything it is going to look real out of place in game... just simply an incomplete skin - Lobo is absolutely right, there is NO room for excuses

EDIT ooooh i would say the 'actual' models are fine - its the textures where they are lacking...

[[21CW]TA|Gunnie]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

I understand that this is all "constructive critisism". Now here is my feed back to this "Critisism".

Speak your words, tell us what you think needs fixed, etc. We will try to improve upon those items if we feel it requires it. Those of you who speak of being "experts" in your field.. Like Jimbob above.. I would like to see your work posted up. Show us what you have done. What mods did you make so that maybe the rest of us can take a look at YOUR stuff. Let's see what the qualifications are of the people doing the most complaining.

I know our stuff needs work, I do, I agree. Maybe we have gone about things in the wrong fashion. I am sure our character models could be 100% better had we just reskinned the existing player models within BF2, like alot of the other mods have done and are doing. Instead, we have done all ours from scratch. They are not 100% finished and will be tweaked some more. Instead of showing in game screen shots, maybe we should have just done renders of everything like alot of the mods do.

You all complain about our Jeep and the lack of "details". Have any of you gone and complained about any of the other mods equipment and how it looks? Probably not. Just as a comparison example.. Take the POE mod... There models look great. They really do. They always have.

However, alot of them look like you all say our model does. They all look as if they just came out of the factory paint shop. Look at their update #57. The stuff is fantastic - but there is no weathering, battle damages, etc. I sure don't see many people complaining about their stuff. Maybe that is because those complaining here are just biased? If you did go and complain.. Post up the forum thread link with a date prior to today.

Most of the models from alot of the mods all look this way. Somewhat new, factory fresh. Why be picking out just our stuff. Go complain about the other people too or quit complaining about ours. Is our stuff up to what we might have done back in EoD 42 days? Maybe the actual models are. However, we do lack some in textureing. We have one of our mappers doing textures. We don't have a dedicated texturer. We have advertised for someone, but have yet to find one. Back then, EoD set the standard, but back then it was a whole different crew of EXPERIENCED people. Alot of the guys here on the mod team are new to this. You all are picking apart stuff that is considered an ALPHA or BETA versions. Every mod has a starting point and improves as they go and people get more experience.

Those of you who think EoD has a big STAFF of people working on the mod.. Think again. We are not a big team like POE or FH. We are a small team of mostly new people to the mod scene. Sure, in years past, especially, with our 1942 EoD releases, we did really well. However, alot of those original Dev members have since retired or moved on to other games/mods. EoD/BFV was the learning curve for a whole batch of new people to the mod scene. Many of those guys who started and did things for our EoD/BFV release were brand new people just learning the ropes of modding. Alot of them moved on to other mods after they learned the basics from some of us. We were a teaching/learning ground for them. They left us hanging with unfinished work. Those of us who are not modelers but coders had to go in and bring things up to some sort of standard for a release.

Therefore, some of our EoD/BFV stuff may have not been 100% as good as it could have been had we had the experienced people alot of the other mods have.

That all aside....Who sets the standard anyway? Who decides what is good or bad? Everyone here can bash anything they please and call it "Constructive". I just find it somewhat hypocritic to be bashing people's work without showing your own capabilities. Maybe we would think your stuff is great.. or maybe we would say it is crap.

In the end it is all just an opinion. I already know, even if I did make something 100% perfect, detail it down to the last poly. Have a flawless texture and a beautiful render. SOMEBODY will still complain about something. It is just how people are. It is human nature.

Those of you here who say our stuff needs work and that you are all "experienced" modders and could do better.. Well, then, I challenge you. Come visit us at the EoDMod.com forums. We need skinners, textures, modelers, etc. I have several models that need unwrapped and skinned. I have models that we still need for the mod created.

If you are so good.. I'd be willing to give you a model and let you unwrap and skin it. We would give you credit for the unwrap and skin. If you are so good at modeling.. Come make a few models for us. Same deal. Help our small mod team get better. Most of the guys here are new to this and not people who have been around game modding for several versions of the Battlefield series.

[jimbob]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

I understand that this is all "constructive critisism". Now here is my feed back to this "Critisism".

Speak your words, tell us what you think needs fixed, etc. We will try to improve upon those items if we feel it requires it. Those of you who speak of being "experts" in your field.. Like Jimbob above.. I would like to see your work posted up. Show us what you have done. What mods did you make so that maybe the rest of us can take a look at YOUR stuff. Let's see what the qualifications are of the people doing the most complaining.

.

fine - here are some trucks



and a US one


just because i can skin doesnt make my opinion any more valid than any1 elses.... i work with DCON and am embarking on helping another mod out there... i DO have a clue about what i am talking about - from what i have been saying i thought tht would have been apparent... sorry to kinda upstage ya but you did ask me to if i were you i would go back and have a think about the suggestions i made... seriously. these are exactly the kinda excuses somone else mentioned here... dont make them, you might end up getting burned

EDIT: THESE are WIP progress screens - and we havent even released them yet
EDIT: sorry in advance moderator

[[EoD]Vic]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

Hey Trahn, don't get all worked up. Some people are gonna hate em and some people are gonna like em. And that's ok. i respect everybodys opinion. If they say they suck, oh well what are you gonna do. Can't please everybody. Modding supposted to be fun. I already got a real job that I hate. For me this is just a hobby a learning experience. (Fun) I try my best. Oh and jimbob that's a very cool texture job. (looks very real)

[[21CW]TA|Gunnie]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

Yea, Jimbob, nice truck, very nice renders.. You obviously do have some texturing talent. Do I feel upstaged.. Nope..Why should I? I stopped long ago worrying too much about what everyone thinks. We can't please everyone. I only posted in this thread to share some information out the EOD Mod Team. Everyone seems to think we are all experts here and we are not.

When your mod gets released, if it ever does. Wait for the firestorm to come upon your stuff. I hope you are up to taking the critisism that you have put out here back upon your own hard work. It is going to happen to you. Don't feel crushed or bad about it.

Question, what do they look like IN GAME? Are they even in a game yet? Or just models out of Maya or Max in a high resolution render scene? Our screen shots are stuff from in game. I took the Jeep Pictures myself. I did not have my PC set up on the highest video settings (probably should have). In any case, render scene vs in game shots.. Big difference in the appearance of things. We'll get some more "details" probably added to the Jeep as some have suggested. To keep it from looking "factory" fresh.

It still does not change my opinion about "what is right" and "what is wrong", "good" or "bad".

I already know there will be people come along who will pick apart anything you do no matter how good it is. Nice truck tho.

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

First off there would be no weathering on them, their mod isn't designed to look like that. Their models go with their story line. Newer stuff, that probally has jsut came off the factory. If you watch any videos of our guys in Iraq some of the apaches and tanks look brand new like they've never been used, because alot of it hasn't... So think about that for a bit.

I am not picking on your mod. I'v seen some crazy idiotic mod ideas. To be honest you could do alot better. Last I read you guys were just porting it over from 1942. You could make things look alot better and still give them a weather effect. You make it sound as if the truck someone posted above doesn't look but it has weathering, scratches on it and still looks pretty neat.

All I am doing is giving you my god honest opinion. Why else is this forum here for us to admire your mod if theres something wrong with it? I am telling you what you could do better, and maybe you should go back in and try to make things look a little sharper, because the back ground compared to those models and the ones in BF2 don't look in place at all nor do they look like they are from the same game even.

[[21CW]TA|Gunnie]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

Jimbob's Trucks are render pictures.. They are not "in game" shots.

[Tres]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

Jimbob's Trucks are render pictures.. They are not "in game" shots.

Even so, they are still obviously better modelled and better skinned than the MUTT you have shown. If you seriously think that makes such a huge difference, maybe you could show us some renders of the MUTT?

[jimbob]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

lol - it isnt in game - it is just a daggy, run of the mill, clay render (default scanline) - pls feel free to post a clay render of your jeep to compare

even "out of the box" vehicles have weathering - and when i did tht truck i tried to keep tht in mind - i could have done ALOT more but as it is a truck used in first gulf war the only weathering it could have would be a couple of months worth tops... surface abrasions, paint degradation and perhaps a little "bottom end" rusting... seriously, a few hastily painted "dirt" layers set to overlay and darken can make a HUGE difference. its all about experimentation... and about making your texture look as "believable" as possible. unfortunately your jeep currently doesnt make tht mark... believe it or not i have only been skinning since last september, but one could say i am a perfectionist with a keen eye for detail... tht and a few years as a graph designer lol

how you respond to comments and criticism is a real guage of the calibur of modders you are. Lobo put it perfectly before. it takes a real man to be able to accept criticism where its due and to be able to come from tht and benefit from it. leave the long and lengthy explanations for your forum... unfortunately they are only going to look like they are excuses here

EDIT: and with the work i am doing in applying to FH2, trust me, i can take criticism lol

[[EoD-Dev]RavenOne]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

Geeze people, I'm shocked how bad you people brought out the deep fryers and started to cook our models. *I hope they tasted good*

I know these models arnt super good, then again character modeling is THE hardest kind of modeling IMO. It's the reason almost NO mods make new player models. Look at PoE... they only reskinned bfv's and bf2's player models yet tons of people look at them like gods... They didnt even edit the orig player models! We on the other hand did edit the orig bf42 models and have made new ones for bf2 from scratch!

Overall, if you dont like the mod dont play it; and dont sit there and rant like a leech and drain dev teams energy down. It saves us *and others* time and pain. All anyone had to say is "the skin might need a little work; but overall nice work guys". Or "I think the hands and feet could be improved; but overall nice work guys." Give a dev team something to work on; dont just cut off there head and start frying it....

[FordMustang]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

Well i liked the models

[jimbob]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

i dont have any drama's with the models - i am not tryin to fry and drain your mod team - if you look back over the threads i have consistently given you good tips on how to fix certain errors (which, from the similarities in the updates, you have taken no notice of) - if you decide to take them the wrong way tht is your problem

"the skin may need a little work" is no good as a comment to you if you dont know what needs work... and good overall is contradictory to having a problem in a certain area

people are trying to tell you what is wrong - you just dont want to listen. why post WIP if you are not prepared to accept constructive criticism? somone put it awesomely b4 - you dont have to be a chef to know the soup is bad and every1 who has posted here has had an almost general consensus. i suggest holding off on updates until you are satisfied it is completed. or, alternatively, keep an open mind to suggestion. we all want mods to be the best they can be, and you cant blame somone for not just sitting back and telling you what you want to hear so you can feel good... honesty really is a valuable commodity these days.... and the best policy

best of luck to you guys - i really hope you are better prepared for others' opinions next time :|:

EDIT and raven one - i wouldnt be shocked... your mods PR skills are questionable

[[21CW]TA|Gunnie]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

I take the critisism. I try to make things as best as I can. I think you have made your point Jim. I posted mine. They were not excuses. Informational post for those who would never come visit our forums. Alot of people get their BF2 information from these forums, not always the mod forums.

Regarding your texture and attention to detail. I don't think your truck should need any "rust" on it. Last time I checked. Desert environments are pretty dry and rusting is not a problem. An abundance of mud usually isn't common either...There is very little water to make the mud and alot of the areas during the Gulf war had paved roads. That kind of truck would not typically be driven off road.

[jimbob]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

Regarding your texture and attention to detail. I don't think your truck should need any "rust" on it. Last time I checked. Desert environments are pretty dry and rusting is not a problem. An abundance of mud usually isn't common either...There is very little water to make the mud and alot of the areas during the Gulf war had paved roads. That kind of truck would not typically be driven off road.

rofl i just go off my reference photo's and books something i dont think yall use enough of. there is no mud on tht skin - just paint degredation and rust on bottom end - alot of maps are in cities so there will be areas of mud and water you will also be amazed at the levels of condensation caused on vehicles in the morning in the desert... rust is also caused by the dramatic temperatures in the desert expanding and contracting metal parts and causing paint to split/crack/erode this actual class of truck (it isnt actually a factual model - it is derived from many in the same class of military transport vehicle) is driven alot off road, in fact international standards dictate tht they be able to carry a certain workload offroad (hahaha got alot of truck books from the library when i did it lol).

but i mean, hey, thts what you think and thts cool i think if you used half the techniques i used on tht truck your skins would be dramatically improved... if anything they would just look alot better IMO tht is, of course, if you know how to do those techniques

so you weren't giving excuses? come on....:shakehead

[Overcloud]

Re: Eve of Destruction Mod Update 4

wow whats with the penis mesaurment posts going on?? Jimbob if I learned anything about you its that you always b*tch about anything.

And if theres something I've learned in my 2 years modding life is that you can never ever, ever, EVER get the correct amount of dirt on your skin
In every skin I've every posted someone says: "dude that looks like its straight from the factory" or "jesus, the GI's clean their equiptment, easy on the brusch there!"
So please dont comment that.