Grand Theft Auto IV Breaks Entertainment Records

[Diamond Dust]

Thortok2000 wrote..

I love beating up prostitutes!



I love to threaten jurors!



I love to steal cars!



I love to headshot cops!



(Don't worry, it's only pixels...)



The two points I'm making are that one: There's no way this is not getting in the hands of kids, and even one kid is one too many. And two: even for adults, this is not good entertainment.



Do everything you do in the game, in real life, and see what happens. These are not good things to be doing, even if you're just 'pretending' to be doing them. The realization and depiction of it is too accurate.



It's one thing to play Cops & Robbers when you're kids, holding your fingers in the shape of a gun and going 'bang bang'. It's another to actually see it visually and realistically depicted on a screen that responds to your input.



Whether it's getting in the hands of children or not is besides the point, I just bring it up because with that many sales, there's no way that's not happening. The main point is that so many people are buying such a worthless game. It's sickening to realize so much of mankind has no concept of basic decency, doesn't even know it, and fights to maintain their own ignorance of the fact by stating that majority = right. You know what that's called? Mob mentality.

How bout you do something useful, stop complaining. Another thing you say things like seeing it on a screen is different. Find me one study that proves that true. Kids can turn on the news and see dead bodies for real, that doesn't change anything. I'm sick of people shoving their morals down my throat under the guise of protecting children. Thats not your job!! It's the job of the child's parents. Make your decisions to protect your children but don't tell me or anyone else how we should raise our kids.



It's one thing to have ignorant thoughts in your head, it's another to write them on the internet.

[MrBosnia]

Thortok2000 wrote..

I love beating up prostitutes!



I love to threaten jurors!



I love to steal cars!



I love to headshot cops!



(Don't worry, it's only pixels...)



The two points I'm making are that one: There's no way this is not getting in the hands of kids, and even one kid is one too many. And two: even for adults, this is not good entertainment.



Do everything you do in the game, in real life, and see what happens. These are not good things to be doing, even if you're just 'pretending' to be doing them. The realization and depiction of it is too accurate.



It's one thing to play Cops & Robbers when you're kids, holding your fingers in the shape of a gun and going 'bang bang'. It's another to actually see it visually and realistically depicted on a screen that responds to your input.



Whether it's getting in the hands of children or not is besides the point, I just bring it up because with that many sales, there's no way that's not happening. The main point is that so many people are buying such a worthless game. It's sickening to realize so much of mankind has no concept of basic decency, doesn't even know it, and fights to maintain their own ignorance of the fact by stating that majority = right. You know what that's called? Mob mentality.

I'm a heavy fan of the GTA series. I've played every single title, probably amounting to hundreds of hours of depictions of real-life massacres. I played my first M game at the age of seven.



I also have an Associates in English Literature, am going for my B.A., and possibly even my Masters. Why am I not a murderer?

[Admz]

Thortok2000 wrote..

I love beating up prostitutes!



I love to threaten jurors!



I love to steal cars!



I love to headshot cops!

I wanted to do all those things before I ever played the GTA series. Maybe it was from movies? go bug the movie people and leave us alone.

[Zips]

Is he really still going on about this? Fighting a losing battle? Is there any relation to Hillary there?

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Edited by [user="26841"] @ [time="1210904190"]

Usually I tend to agree with Thortok, but I'm gonna have to step back on this one and take a different angle on things.



I think you have to realize your audience when posting on CS-Nation. You're writing to a group of people who are used to having their (at one point in time) favorite game constantly fingered by sensationalist media figures as the cause of the "epidemic of kids killing kids" which they've failed to conclusively prove is in fact even happening. We're a biased audience; we recognize this fact, but it doesn't change our bias.



Arguments over the effects of media create a trend towards drawing lines in the sand that bothers me. What I mean is this: if you're going to run with the reasonably well-supported assessment that media does influence children, then you are often forced into a scenario of saying "how much is too much for kids to be exposed to?" and "which types of acts are unacceptable for children to see?"



We're on CS-Nation. This is a group of people who are used to consuming violent media in high doses and not letting it translate into real-world actions. By coming here in the first place we've all consented that there IS a valid place for socially-unacceptable acts in our entertainment. Everything beyond that is just a discussion of degrees and arbitrary "which is worse, sex or guns?" types of discussions.



Ultimately I think nearly all of us agree that little kids shouldn't be exposed to things intended specifically and only for mature audiences. Society as a whole agrees -- that's why ratings exist in the first place. Rehashing that argument is trying to raise controversy where there is none.



So what's left then? If Counter-Strike is okay to play, where you can pretend to be a terrorist shooting counter-terrorists and hostages and blowing things up, then you really don't have a foot to stand on when criticizing GTA4. Is it more violent? Sure. But saying it's wrong because it's more violent is like saying it's fine to kill 1 innocent person, but not okay to kill 100 innocent people.



Ultimately if anyone wants to take a stand against violence in the media, that's perfectly fine with me -- just be consistent in your arguments and throw it ALL out. Otherwise, the argument is not about content but rather about parental responsibility, and like I said... we don't have major disagreements in that arena.



[Edit: Thortok if you read this can you fire me an email? nighthawk at csnation dot net ...thanks.]

[Thortok2000]

In CS, you're not killing innocent people, so to speak (unless you kill hosties, which you're not supposed to do, even as a terrorist).



In general, I agree with you Nighthawk, on most of the points, except there is a 'line in the sand' where there reaches a point that is 'too much'. GTA reaches that point. If GTA doesn't, what does? How violent does a game have to be, how sexually depraved, how morally vacant? Does the game need to have a peripheral pentagram to help summon demons on your tv screen and then watch as they rape (and then gorily eat) some random innocent? (It's just pixels!) Where do you cross the line?



In general, I'm against violence in the media. To a certain effect, as a story telling device, and in the eyes and minds of the mature, it's fine. I think most stories could be told just as well without resorting to crudity, though. Finding Nemo was a hilarious movie and it didn't have a single dead prostitute in it.



I just think anyone who enjoys this is morally detached. They think about it, they even pretend to do it, but because it's not real, it's right and totally okay. I can go around thinking of killing prostitutes all day long, but because I don't actually do it, there's nothing wrong with me. I beg to differ, I think there's something wrong with that. I think there's something wrong with what that says about society, that thoughts of that nature have become acceptable.



First come thoughts, then comes pretending, then comes doing it in secret, then comes doing in public. That is the path to public acceptance of any act. That these acts are on the path to public acceptance (even if they don't go any farther than they're currently at, pretending) is sickening.



I don't have any opinion to offer on how to control or correct it, if it even can be. I'm just saying the whole thing sickens me. It indicates the moral decline of society, that this game is not just allowed, but so incredibly popular as well.

[Zips]

Thortok2000 wrote..

I just think anyone who enjoys this is morally detached.

Ahahahahaha... Wow, thanks for the laugh.



Excuse me while I go around with a thumb up my bum and a big ol' dunce cap on that announces to the world that I do not know right from wrong, nor do I make ethical choices, nor do I make morally sound decisions.



Listen to yourself! Maybe then you'll get why everyone here thinks you're a moron, especially when you make comments like the one above.



Thanks for shitting up the thread about a record breaking event with your soapbox antics!

[Kotae]

Morally detached? Seriously? I don't want to go bang a prostitute (for one, it's hard without a penis), shoot or run over innocent people, or anything like that. Why? Because it's wrong.



Sure, this game probably made it into the hands of minors - just like alcohol or cigarettes do. You can't stop everyone who isn't supposed to be playing this from playing it.



But seriously, morally detached?? I love horror movies for the pure scare and gore factor - but I'll be damned if I'm going to chase after people with a chainsaw or machete. I love playing violent games. I'm not going to go and kill people.



For the majority of people, there is no translation from "this is okay in a game" to "this is okay in real life." Murder is still as unacceptable today as it was 200 years ago. Times have changed, but the morals are still there. But jesus christ on a crutch, this news post. There is no words to describe how a post about a record breaker has gone down to this.

[MrBosnia]

Zips wrote..

Ahahahahaha... Wow, thanks for the laugh.



Excuse me while I go around with a thumb up my bum and a big ol' dunce cap on that announces to the world that I do not know right from wrong, nor do I make ethical choices, nor do I make morally sound decisions.



Listen to yourself! Maybe then you'll get why everyone here thinks you're a moron, especially when you make comments like the one above.



Thanks for shitting up the thread about a record breaking event with your soapbox antics!

Zips, its not worth wasting your breath on this guy.

[-:Nighthawk:-]

For the record, there are male prostitutes that can help you with that problem, Kotae, but I have a feeling Zips will veto it.



As far as violence in the media, I don't think you can justify Counter-Strike as "using violence to tell a story for the minds of the mature." We've all been on voicecom on a pub and heard those that sound like little elves with mouths of sailors, running around shooting everything that moves in the head. Round, after round, after round. Let's face it -- violence is simply the nature of the challenge you face in CS, and violence similarly goes with the challenges presented to the player in the GTA series.



Any line you draw will be arbitrary, and subject to personal opinion. If simulated violence is detrimental for us adults to play around in, then let's ban CS and every other FPS game this site is dedicated to covering.



If not, then the fact that one game might offend one person's sensibilities doesn't mean that it will offend everyone else's, and it comes down to a matter of personal choice. Simply put, your line is not the same as my line, or the next person's line -- because lines are inherently inventions of our own minds relative to our personal experiences which are not common to each of us.



Anyway, huge launch for GTA4, and probably the controversy around it (like we're seeing here) only spurs MORE sales. It certainly worked for the Harry Potter books (some of the ultra-conservative religious groups raised a big fuss about them, which only increased readership) which are also mentioned here. I didn't have any interest in seeing "The Da Vinci Code" or "The Golden Compass" until I heard there were controversies surrounding them, and I'm a sucker for seeing what all this nonsense is about for myself. :)



[P.S. I didn't get an email from you yet Thortok... try drunkenfool at hotmail dot com if my csnation account is down]

[Kotae]

I prefer to pretend all prostitutes are female, thank you.



And controversy does, indeed, spur sells. Da Vinci code didn't interest me until I learned more about the book from the news coverage. GTAIV probably didn't interest some people until the learned more about the game from the coverage - but hell, that's with any game like this, and for some reason, GTA is today's Doom.



I'm sure it'll continue to sell a metric fuckton of copies, and probably have a long standing record until, oh, GTAV.

[Thortok2000]

Nighthawk hit the mark again.



I find the game offensive, but what I find sickening is that other people don't. It really begs the question as to how bad a game would have to be to cross their line.



All I'm presenting is my opinion here. I'm not personally attacking anyone. I find this game to be a representation of society going downhill. Honestly, I find all violence in the media to be a representation of that, but this game in particular (not to mention the record sales of it) is to me an indication that the downhill trend is continuing, and going even further downhill.



The biggest lie the devil ever pulled off was convincing the world he didn't exist. I don't believe in the devil, but I've always liked the phrase. It seems to apply here. The worst part about this whole degradation of society is how society doesn't even care or notice it's being degraded, and when you attempt to point it out, it strongly denies it. *shrug*



I didn't know I was supposed to be e-mailing you, Nighthawk? I'll do that now I guess. =P *scrolls up* Ah, an edit I didn't see. Incoming. =P

[Kotae]

this news post is about records again.



please, what was the biggest pizza ever made?

[InfectedSoul]

World record for pizza (unless I found an older one)



The current world record is 122 ft. 8 inches in diameter done in Norwood, South Africa on December 8, 1990. There ingredients were 9,920 lbs of flour, 198 lbs of salt, 3968 lbs of cheese and 1984 lbs of tomato puree.



and more on top of this thread itself. GTA has set a record I highly HIGHLY doubt to be broken soon. Pretty amazing. Im not gonna comment on the other bulk part of this thread, as it has little to do with the title, and is more of a pissing contest IMO.

[Kotae]

i didn't think someone would actually find me that.



haha. But yeah, GTAIV might hold this record for a while - if the hype machine that was Halo 3 only made 170 million its first day, and GTA blew that out of the water, it'll have to be something amazing to surpass this. But then again, GTA was a multiplatform release, whereas Halo 3 was not.



edit - also, that is a lot of glorious, glorious cheese.