Legal Action Taken Against Cheaters

[lampwick]

Cymbrogi wrote..

It's just like the RIAA lawsuits and the DirectTV/Dish Network "sue you or settle" letters, a scare tactic to blackmail someone (who probably did steal the programming/music) into coughing up some dough. Its all about money, pure and simple, and anyone who tells you its about cheating or trying to make the game more enjoyable for the end user probably also has a bridge somewhere they'd like to sell too.

Last time I checked, people WERE arrested for stealing the music etc

Yes it is a scare tactic but VALVe may also follow thru with it.



It really is a breach of contract thing, I believe, cos the EULA HAS been violated.

And don't say to me that they don't own HL cos they must to test the games, unless its pirate then they get arrested for that........

[Cymbrogi]

re: #75



Read carefully what I said. I never said people didn't get arrested for stealing music, books, software, etc. What I said was Valve, Sony, BMG, Vivendi, etc. as PRIVATE ENTITES can't prosecute a CRIMINAL ACT. Only the governmental agencies charged with law enforcement can run criminal investigations. What is being implied is that Valve is taking CRIMINAL action against these people. That's just like saying I could prosecute you and have you tossed in jail if you stole my car. All I can do in that situation is cooperate with law enforcement and let them do it. I can sue you in civil court for the damages, but I can't get you thrown in jail over it.



This isn't to say Valve or any other private company couldn't pass on what they find to law enforcement for criminal prosecution, but most of the time law enforcement does its own investigation to make sure its done right and the evidence they have won't be tossed out of court for being obtained in violation of the criminal defendant's rights.



This is a civil cause of action. If anyone can point me to a source that shows a private person was arrested and prosecuted for a crime by another private person (in the U.S. that is - I don't give a rip about laws where I don't live), I would be interested in reading more about it.

[Pharlap]

Cymbrogi wrote..

re: #75



Read carefully what I said. I never said people didn't get arrested for stealing music, books, software, etc. What I said was Valve, Sony, BMG, Vivendi, etc. as PRIVATE ENTITES can't prosecute a CRIMINAL ACT. Only the governmental agencies charged with law enforcement can run criminal investigations. What is being implied is that Valve is taking CRIMINAL action against these people. That's just like saying I could prosecute you and have you tossed in jail if you stole my car. All I can do in that situation is cooperate with law enforcement and let them do it. I can sue you in civil court for the damages, but I can't get you thrown in jail over it.



This isn't to say Valve or any other private company couldn't pass on what they find to law enforcement for criminal prosecution, but most of the time law enforcement does its own investigation to make sure its done right and the evidence they have won't be tossed out of court for being obtained in violation of the criminal defendant's rights.



This is a civil cause of action. If anyone can point me to a source that shows a private person was arrested and prosecuted for a crime by another private person (in the U.S. that is - I don't give a rip about laws where I don't live), I would be interested in reading more about it.

listen to this man, he is right!

[jedicmdrwedge]

Cymbrogi wrote..

Its all about money, pure and simple

But whether they mean to get money (for Gabe's cake fetish) or whether they're actually trying to help the Half-Life community, we still benefit, do we not?

GunMetalFOXDIE wrote..

I'm a little glad that theyre trying to stop cheating but like nighthawk, I am also afraid of the implications.

I'm hopping on the wagon du band.

[Cymbrogi]

re: #78 (and to all who have put up with my posts on this issue)



Yes, we still benefit and I have no issues with Valve take any legal means to protect their rights, property or to improve the experience I have with their product. I have gotten SO MUCH entertainment from my purchase of Half-Life, and now CS:CZ, that I come to evaluate other FPS games based on these. One could read my comments as being critical of Valve and that is not intended at all. The legal system is there and as long as it's not abused, it is an appropriate venue to take care of issues like this.



I just wanted to make the distinction between a CIVIL matter in the legal system and a CRIMINAL one.

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Yeah, the somewhat intelligent among us already realize that Cymbrogi.



The more relevant debate is simply over what sort of civil charges VALVe could bring against these companies. In the case of the LAN center controversy, there's clear use of VALVe's software in violation of the EULA, so they've got a clear, easy case there.



But in this case, the original EULA of Half-Life didn't say anything about cheats AFAIK, and it's possible that the same kind of agreement that allows various server-side mods (and the abuses that can come from them) would more or less protect those who create modifications for the client-side of things.



After all, you can claim that hacks are meant for "hackers only" servers for people who enjoy playing that way, much like war3 servers and such. Any unintended use in other servers is beyond their control, after all. Sure, it's an argument full of lies, but can you prove that in a court?



The scare-tactics argument makes sense, along with the fact that not many opponents could afford to go to court over this matter, even if VALVe had a flimsy case. I certainly hope that's not what it is, though, because I think legal scare tactics are one of the worst abuses of the law possible.



In the end, yeah, most of us know little about the fine points of law, and basically we'll just have to see how this all plays out. It certainly does make one curious, though...

[lampwick]

Nighthawk makes a very interesting point and it seems that will give the creators a 'Get out of Jail' card. TBH I haven' read the EULA fully (who does?) thus I take UR word for it.



With regard to the music piracy (Napster, AudioGalaxy etc) what is the situation regarding the prosecution there. Did the music companies start their own investigation or was it originally a federal matter?

Given its unprecedence this is the only comparison I can think of.....

[SinaC]

valve fatshot

[Cymbrogi]

I too am interested in how this plays out. Some folks have raised the question of enforcability of the EULA and I have little knowledge on that subject, other than I feel those "agreements" will be viewed with some scrutiny by the Courts if the Court has a sense the EULA is being used to bootstrap an otherwise garbage claim into court. Like everyone else, I don't think I've ever read any EULA for any software I've installed.



My attitude with it is that is smacks of heavy-handed tactics and I'd rather see the money used for development rather than lawyers. I hate playing with cheaters/hackers as much as anyone else, but life is life and there's always another server. By the time you deal with a cheater, you've already paid the money for the game. Further patches and such to deal with cheating is more a PR issue than a sale issue - how many of you have NOT bought a game because people were accused of cheating/hacking?



The thought occurs that this could be a precursor move by Valve to test the waters in the age of broadband and possible plans for a online only project (I have no idea what it could be, but look at things like Everquest and such) Just a thought, snip in the bud now, less problems later.

[-:Nighthawk:-]

lampwick wrote..

With regard to the music piracy (Napster, AudioGalaxy etc) what is the situation regarding the prosecution there. Did the music companies start their own investigation or was it originally a federal matter?

Given its unprecedence this is the only comparison I can think of.....

The DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) gives some companies ungodly amounts of civil power, and pretty much lets them act in similar ways to how the government can act, seizing records and all sorts of crap.



For instance, the RIAA (or an affiliated corporation) could force an internet provider to give account information about its users if they have evidence that someone using that ISP is distributing copyrighted material (ie, file sharing).



It's a horrible piece of legislation IMHO, but it's law now. :-\

[Cymbrogi]

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

The DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) gives some companies ungodly amounts of civil power, and pretty much lets them act in similar ways to how the government can act, seizing records and all sorts of crap.



....SNIPPED.....



It's a horrible piece of legislation IMHO, but it's law now. :-\

Amen to that!

[Pharlap]

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

The DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) gives some companies ungodly amounts of civil power, and pretty much lets them act in similar ways to how the government can act, seizing records and all sorts of crap.



For instance, the RIAA (or an affiliated corporation) could force an internet provider to give account information about its users if they have evidence that someone using that ISP is distributing copyrighted material (ie, file sharing).



It's a horrible piece of legislation IMHO, but it's law now. :-\

im waiting for an option to encrypt data transferred over say kazaa, to stop those pesky FBI agents or whatevers, looking at what people transfer between each other. i mean in the usa its illegal to encrypt at anything higher than a 56-bit cypher, for use with something like PGP for example.

[feiyang]

Valve is trying to get money off cheaters by buying off few cheating sites and turn the mainpages to donation pages. Go to cheat-network.net and see. They are trying to fool the ppl know goes to these sites to donate money, but the money donated goes to valve, not the cheating site's owner.

This whole thing about sueing is all bullshit. They just need some extra cash.

[-:Nighthawk:-]

That's the funniest conspiracy theory yet.

[**ragg***]

well the thing is even tho these vac updateds are out i still cheaters on my sever, with admin power's and all sort's of cheat's

we just need constant cheat updates so ppl get tierd of having to get new cheats all the time