cpoint: hot water Valve

[cleve-entity]

F*ckin great.

[Sobegreen]

You know, I was really feeling some high resentment towards Valve due to alot of things in this article. And now the only thing I'm upset about is their abandonment of TFC. There is still a decent sized TFC community out there, and they are ignoring it. If your not going to support a game, say something atleast, release some source code ect. But compared to other gaming companies/developers I guess I could say that Valve isn't so bad. <3 Valve



You know I really don't like EA...maybe Valve needs to make a racing game and throw out some crappy sports games...hmmm. :)

[-:Nighthawk:-]

skankuser wrote..

What I'm saying is that Valve is pretty fricking lazy. Instead of making games themselves, they make stuff like CS:CZ and then some of you idiots would go play the average game and buy the hell out of it. Of course CS wasn't made by them, but they saw the dollar signs, and oooLALA! Money for everyone! I'm not anti-valve. I'm just saying they want the money more than pleasing the fans. I even doubt they WANT to please the fans, as long as it leads to MORE DAMN MONEY.

VALVe doesn't make games? We've seen the work on HL2, and now CS-Source, and rumors about TF2 and possibly CS2, along with DoD-Source. But maybe because we have a few months to go, you don't count these. Fine.



VALVe itself or through outsourcing has released Half-Life, Opposing Force, Blue Shift, TFC, DMC, and now CS:CZ. They've also worked with mods like CS and DoD, and taken them far beyond what they were when VALVe first got involved.



If you look at the list of collective updates to CS from 1.0 on, you'll see how fundamentally different of a game CS is now. Claiming VALVe didn't make CS may not technically be false, but seeing as the creators of CS are VALVe employees, isn't this a stupid argument?



Either way, VALVe certainly made CS what it is now. Engine updates (transparency etc), graphical updates (new smoke etc), weapon updates (galil etc), sound updates (voicecomm etc), UI updates (VGUI2), buddy tracking (Friends)... I could go on for quite a while, but I really don't need to. VALVe has taken a somewhat primitive mod of THEIR game, brought the creation team into their own ranks, and kept this game at the top of the charts ever since.

DaRk-AnGeL wrote..

Granted there are major bugs that have to be dealt with, but when you think about it you shoot to kill, and if you're any sort of a decent player you'll get the kill and not start whining about how the hit boxes are buggered etc...

I used to think hitbox complains were the crutch of the weak and unskilled, and to a certain extent I still do. However, after doing fairly extensive testing of it on my own through the past few versions of CS, I can definitely say there are enough problems with the hitboxes that you will at times earn kills you're aiming incorrectly with, and other times where you will be dead on with perfect accuracy, and not have any hit register.



Heck, even Summerblue showed a video of this effect along with some comments back in the CS1.3 days. A few specifics of the problems have changed, but with every new fix, it seems like more get messed up. Even more so now with the turning torso effect we have now.



I hope you're right though, and CS-source clears up these issues.

bozer wrote..

Allow the competitve side to tweak the game the way they want it, and leave the basic CS up to the masses.

Honestly, if you call one mode "pro mode" and the other "pub mode" which do you think all the wannabe 1337 players are going to try to play? It doesn't matter which may be more fun -- odds are they're going to want to feel pro. The end result would be splitting up the community as has been pointed out so many times, between casual players, wannabe 1337 pubbers, and actual competitive players. Separate CZ multiplayer was already a step in the wrong direction... I hope they don't add to that division.



The first page of this CP really summed it up, though. As with most of these debates, people on one side of the issue or the other simply won't be moved by the arguments from the other side. For the most part, everyone has already made up their minds. Each person finds truth in their own arguments, and foolishness in the arguments of the others. Guess it comes down to perspective or values or something, who knows?



Seems to be fairly true of human interaction, whether it's gamers arguing over updates or wannabe political scientists arguing about the war with Iraq -- even the most "openminded" individuals seem to have their minds just as made up on issues as the hard-liners. Do me a favor and don't let this aspect derail the comments from the subject at hand, that is, this Counter-Point. :)

[itsMrHankey2u]

excellent read. only point i dont think was touched on and should have is why people do complain so much. it is because they are heard. i really dont see blizzard, ea, etc making a change back(and forward actually) like crosshairs no matter what response they got. on the other hand, valve does listen, and everybody feels like they should be the main person valve listens to. this of course perpetuates into stronger feelings on a more trivial subject.

[skankuser]

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

VALVe doesn't make games? We've seen the work on HL2, and now CS-Source, and rumors about TF2 and possibly CS2, along with DoD-Source. But maybe because we have a few months to go, you don't count these. Fine.



Stupid, Valve didn't even touch BlueShift or OpFor, that was Gearbox Studios. It's people like you who pat VALVE on the back and say go right ahead, you made Half-Life and it was the greatest game of all time so now you can halfass yourselves for 6 years. And anyway, do you remember how long it took to beat Blueshift? Pretty long game, say 3 hours right?



My point is, why are we playing games for VALVE that came out BEFORE Y2K, BEFORE Bush and Gore were bitching in Florida, BEFORE we knew what the hell Al-Queda was. If you keep playing the crap they come out with, the more they're just going to refine a game that should have been dead 2 years.



VALVE needs to stop lying to it's customers, just make the damn game, and bring the game out when it's done. Don't like what I have to say? I don't give a rat's ass, sorta like the people at VALVE...

[I2o[G]uE TacT-X]

I can definitely picture VALVe as lazy. Infact, it's very easy. It takes them months to fix one glitch there still so many glitches that have been around since Steam was launched.

[ma_cherie]

bozer wrote..

My personal opinion is that if Valve made a competitive based edition of CS (with tons of config settings for things like the AWP, hopping.. ect), a ton of bitching would go away from both ends of the spectrum.

CSTournament?

[Spookie4551]

I2o[G]uE TacT-X wrote..

I can definitely picture VALVe as lazy. Infact, it's very easy. It takes them months to fix one glitch there still so many glitches that have been around since Steam was launched.

In their defence, they are under pressure to get HL2 finished (well before Doom 3, STALKER etc) which will take a bite out of their sales.



But then again it is their fault for taking on so many projects at one time.

[HankPym]

skankuser wrote..

Stupid, Valve didn't even touch BlueShift or OpFor, that was Gearbox Studios.

First of all, don't place your post inside a quote box, you dope.



Secondly, he said Valve was responsible for some games through outsourcing, which is where Gearbox comes in. Pay attention.

[bozer]

Edited by [user="37205"] @ [time="1087599953"]

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

Honestly, if you call one mode "pro mode" and the other "pub mode" which do you think all the wannabe 1337 players are going to try to play? It doesn't matter which may be more fun -- odds are they're going to want to feel pro. The end result would be splitting up the community as has been pointed out so many times, between casual players, wannabe 1337 pubbers, and actual competitive players. Separate CZ multiplayer was already a step in the wrong direction... I hope they don't add to that division.

I see your point, but I still have my own opinion and disagree with yours. For one, if the pro-mode had say, the AWP the way it used to be... all of the pro players would play it and probably be happy with it. Then, all the pub players could play their pub mode with the AWP nerfed, and they'd be happy. They couldnt bitch over and over about the AWP because the response would be "Go play pub mode". Maybe the pro mode could only be ran by an admin perhaps.. and all pub servers would remain in pub mode. I dont know.. its just an idea.



All I know is that people who are serious with the game and have been playing for a long time usually tend to want the complete opposite of what the new players want. Provide an option for either, and it would cut down on the whining (imo)



edit: also, Id prefer to be seperated from the newer players. On the norm, they tend to call hacks when their are none, and be generally annoying.

[d o o d o o]

that was a very good read, i only read the first article but it was good enuf to tell , stuff.

[asspennies]

d o o d o o wrote..

that was a very good read, i only read the first article but it was good enuf to tell , stuff.

Uhh, you mean you only read the Fragmaster rant? Then you kind of missed the point of the whole endeavor.

[Polishnerd]

What does eveyone mean when they say "it was a very good read". Does this mean they enjoy 3 pages of ranting and arguing thru emails between 2 people?

[rizzuh]

Polishnerd wrote..

What does eveyone mean when they say "it was a very good read". Does this mean they enjoy 3 pages of ranting and arguing thru emails between 2 people?

yes

[Polishnerd]

Ah ok. I see.