A Possible Pro-Mode?

[Dirk]

F13ND wrote..

and dirk i guarantee at times you have complained about cs as it is now in forms of "aw wtf i was shooting him in the head" or "wow how random." Im also convinced that you are one of those kids who complains about the awp having a 1 shot kill. Just because people have less random spray and better hitboxes doesnt mean that everygun will be made 1 shot 1 kill.

I actually bitch at people that think the awp is a newb gun because it is 1 shot 1 kill. You need to learn how to avoid it better. Also everyone in this game at one point has complained about the hitboxes being fucked up at times. Maybe you should know someone before you talk shit.



-dp-

[F13ND]

Edited by [user="32404"] @ [time="1081139232"]

ok dirk you dont whine as much as i thought. Gj on the awp and im glad you agree. But how can you argue against fixing things like randomness and the hitboxes when you yourself complain about them? kinda goes back to the reality factor. Everyone wants the game to be realistic but how realistic is shooting someone in the head point blank and not even hitting them? also one thing that would help someone (and used to) avoid an awp would be not having the jump delay. Jumping to dodge an awp shot and then trying to move and not going anywhere can be aggrivating dont you agree? and i wasnt talking "shit" i was making a point. ty

[DchozN]

"I'm sorry for my ignorance and for interrupting this hot discussion, but what exactly do you mean by "CO rules"?"



chargers only.

[K0brakai]

Edited by [user="114582"] @ [time="1081143239"]

edit: pretty much on the same side as F13ND (spent ages typing it :)- dammit, half an hour earlier n i coulda just ripped it off with longer words :/ )



Personally i think pro-mode is not a wise thing, but if it did happen, many people would move over to it, as it would try to reward skill and aim more obviously. It would hail to the evolution of the noticeably 'elitest/competitive' (delete as appropriate) nature of cs as it is.I am not for the pre-1.4 jumping changes... spacebars are too important That's not how i see the game should be played.



What i do agree with are the accuracy suggestions. I have been feeling lately that killing several people is not truly a measure of skill, as some days it happens, some days not. I want to know that if i killed someone my aim/tactics were better, not that my recoil was 'luckier' than theirs. I think this can be anti-productive, as many players after a week would find out what works and what doesn't much more easily(consistancy), and if its their aim that sucks then it needs practice. It seems like there's an 'accustomising' stage, then a general public stage where the vast majority lie, towards league players, and to reach the top requires a lot of hard work and time, but not necessarily the greatest skill, just the most accustomed.



It's true recoil is by its nature uncontrolled and random, but not being able(/'allowed' to some extent) to take advantage of the position you have created for yourself (surprise, first shot etc) can be frustrating if you try the same way you have several hundred times before with success and end up dead because they had better (more fortunate) numbers than you. I think the argument's more about consistency than less recoil. You can adapt to consistency.... (take the scout as an example- a favourite weapon of mine but to do well with it you have to get headshots. at medium-close range you with a good aim you would need some bad luck not to land that all important headshot, with the accuracy as it is. should it be about luck?)



I believe the first shot should always be nearly dead accurate (with some small variation and recoil exaggerated depending on your status (crouched etc)) to allow a truer aim to be more deadly (in an even situation) which it is not always presently.



as for the amount of recoil- i deal with whatever i get given, as the recoil is mainly due to my choice of gun, if i dont like it i buy a different one. :)



methinks the awm is fine how it is. it's a niche gun and while it overpowers some maps (aztec comes to mind) it isn't universally as fearsome, and if they miss their shot in cqb they deserve to die, cos that is not the 'niche' it was designed for. I think quickswitching is a workaround which unbalances what was originally conceived as a balancing feature(ok it might not be balanced atm, i wont say either way, but by using a glitch you are getting an advantage) If anything it was introduced to promote skill (using the correct weapons at the right times- you have the wrong gun out, pay the price to wait and change, or try to overcome the odds... (with better aim/tactics))



maybe ill go through and edit this in the morning, at some points it tends towards artificial perfect quake (and 1 player) style environments and that is not what i'm trying to put across.



this game is supposed to 'feign realism', a virtual adaptation of reality. how realistic is it that you end up stationary, crouched at opposite ends of a hallway bursting till someone dies.



having said all that it's a game i really enjoy playing. I just think in my ideal world it could be better,as does everyone i suppose. basically, i guess, i believe the compromise new and experienced players has been set a little too low.



n.b. sorry for all the brackets :)

[shurcool]

DchozN wrote..

"I'm sorry for my ignorance and for interrupting this hot discussion, but what exactly do you mean by "CO rules"?"



chargers only.

Thank you.

[Dirk]

I am not arguing about fixing hitboxes. They should do that anyway without release a fucking "pro mode" patch. I don't really get what you people mean by randomness. I mean if you fucking run and your bullet doesn't go where you want it to go so fucking be it.



-dp-

[lopinboy]

Dumb idea. Why? Because most servers other than your 24/7 Crap servers will be running a "Pro" version anyways.

[I2o[G]uE TacT-X]

narby wrote..

Horrific. The point of the leagues should be to find the best clans who are the best at counter-strike not the best at their own custom special elitist edition.



I honestly don't see the reason to have extra features for better players simply because they're better than regular players. They should be better players because they can excell at playing the same game as everyone else.



Less recoil? The skill should lie on the players ability to use those weapons better than other players, not some watered down pap like this. If anything, surely less recoil would be better for an amateur version of the game? Since it apparently means your aim is now much better.

perfect.... ;]

[plogo]

Uh.. how many people here have actually played in a cs match 1.3 or before in an actual league... (i.e. ritd, cal, rgl, bite, sta, old-school ogl etc.. not pg or ogl after it became worthless)



Even more, how many of you play or have played in leagues recently, at a cal-im or higher level?



If you have, and you're opposed to the promode, sure that's cool.



If you haven't, I feel you are telling me I'm going to have less fun doing something, without having any actual experience.



I, for one, enjoyed league play pre-1.4 most, and most people I know agree with me, ranging from cal-i players, to people who have quit cs because of the changes, to people in you're average cal-im/m clan.



The reason I don't play 1.3 anymore is because cal plays 1.6, simple as that, and I don't really complain because the main problem with cs league play right now, from my standpoint, is cheating.



Given the chance to play a promode, I would be all aboard and it just miffs me that some of you people are so vehemently opposed to having the promode when you don't play in leagues.



I don't know, it just seems to me after playing 1.4+ for a few years, various earlier versions were more fun for league play, and if you haven't played both then I don't think you should be so quick to say that a promode would be detrimental. To me, it's like me having some vanilla ice cream, then having some chocolate ice cream, deciding that I liked the vanilla more, than having someone who has tried neither tell me the chocolate is the best flavor.

[tibi08]

MikeJ wrote..

I find this sudden change of heart in the direction of where professional CS is heading kind of odd, as league play has pretty much been as its been for going on 2 years now. Its popularity exploded during CS 1.3 with a number of factors, including a large experienced player based ready for the next step, the excitement of one of the first CS centered CPL which featured one of the most popular matches of all time with the American X3 powerhouse taking on the Swedish NiP, and with the introduction of in-game voice communication which opened up the doors for amateurs everywhere to the world of e-sports. With leagues like CAL gaining a lot of momentum, CS left its stages as a pub game, and entered into the professional gaming scene.



As things took off, Valve announced CS 1.4 would remove the ability to jump rapidly in succession. This created a large uproar in the now very large and very vocal e-sports community. But CS 1.4 came and went, and it didn't seem that these changes were for the worse. They did slow down the game play, but all in all it increased the strategy and tactics of clan matches hugely, and no one really complained once everyone got use to it.



We still witnessed some insanely intense CPL matches on the highest level of competition, and new records were set in spectators and mass media coverage.



Now, as the scene has climaxed and seems to be winding down, even if only a little, we are looking for where that spark went. I'll tell you where it's not. It's not in CS 1.3, and it sure as hell doesn't lie in a separate "pro-mode." Counter-Strike may finally be past its summit as it pushes its 5th birthday, but I believe trying to go back to a particular point in its history, be in beta 5.2, 1.0, 1.3, etc isn't going to bring back the nostalgia or notoriety of the "old days."



All we can do at this point is move on and look for CS2 or the next big thing. But I believe this old game still has some juice in it, and any changes made to it at this point should be beneficial to the community at large.

Excellent post

[Smittins]

Maybe you should know someone before you talk shit.

Oh the irony.



And Dork there's no need to put your initials after every post, we can see your name just fine on the left.

[DaRk-AnGeL]

Does anyone remember how CS started out ?

It was a small mod with the aspiration of becoming a popular online shooter made for the public, but now we are beginning to see a small minority of pro players trying to govern the CS community, CS is and has always been about the public, the public make the decisions here, NOT the PRO'S !

If you want to ruin the best online shooter ever, why not take Condition-Zero and add pro mode to that since it is unused anyway..........

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Edited by [user="26841"] @ [time="1081159219"]

Does anyone else find it funny that so many people claim CS is dying, yet are not able to provide any numbers to back that claim up?



Considering the number of people I've introduced (and gotten hooked) to Counter-Strike in the past year, I honestly have not seen any reason to believe that CS is dying. Heck, even our stupid April Fools joke showed that a lot of people around here weren't here last year when we did more or less the same thing last year, and the year before. That doesn't imply to you that more people are coming into the CS community? Yes, some old timers have quit, but they're being replaced by new blood.

K0brakai wrote..

I believe the first shot should always be nearly dead accurate (with some small variation and recoil exaggerated depending on your status (crouched etc)) to allow a truer aim to be more deadly (in an even situation) which it is not always presently.

For all the main guns used in pro leagues, the first shot is always dead accurate, if you're standing still.



I guess the "randomness" issue is what I want to comment on. I can't help but find it strangely ironic that someone claiming to be a "pro" with "good aim" is complaining about the recoil that CS1.6 has.



"Why is that, Nighthawk?"



Sure, I enjoyed bunnyhopping like an idiot in pre-1.4 versions of CS, toting my deagle and blasting people to pieces easily. But you know what? That really wasn't all that hard to do, because all I had to do was point somewhere basically at their body, hit the trigger a few times, and they were gonners.



When I busted out my assault rifle, why not fire in full auto mode? Just point in the general direction of all the enemies, hold down the trigger, and watch them drop! How skilled is that, really?



Now, I have to be a lot more careful where I place my shots. I know that when I go full auto, my accuracy is going to hell faster than rizzuh downs a $0.99 cheeseburger. No, I can't just point over that way and count on sheer numbers of bullets to kill my enemy.



Now I have to make sure I line up my very first shots. I can't panic and let off a huge spray. I have to make those first 2-3 bullets count, and land every one of them where I want them, if I'm going to take my enemy down.



Skill you say? Increased recoil has made me focus on my aim a lot more than I ever had to in earlier versions. Sure, I can try full auto now, and pray for good luck from the sheer volume of bullets, but odds are the guy who lined up his crosshairs correctly before pulling the trigger is going to kill me first.



Placing your first shots where you want them is skill. Increased recoil didn't change that. If anything, it's more difficult now for a new player to kill an experienced one. Making hits and kills easier to get isn't more pro -- if anything it's less professional.



Pro mode? Certainly not. Sounds more like a last stand against the progression of CS to me, and that's not something I support.

[EastsideKnifeKillah]

No pro-mode thank you.

[jumbo shrimp]

"...changes that cater to professional gamers. These include less random recoil, faster weapon switching..."



Sounds like newbie plays to me.